The Great Debate..."Breeder" or "Backyard Breeder"

[Marc]

Originally Posted by T Doll

It's funny that you say there's more to talk about from "both" sides. In this entire thread, it seems like it's everyone else's side versus yours.

I never said nor implied that I, or anybody else, have been forced to post in this thread. I'm just voicing my opinion, which is apparently what you wanted out of this thread, is it not? It seems like no matter how many opinions and answers you receive here, you're not going to be happy with them. You just want to find something to justify breeding your girl, even though it's clear that you shouldn't.

First of all..this is the breeders section so like me as an owner...we don't pop down here much. Second...I have had numerous PM's from people on the "other side" that are in full agreement with my points but have been shot down by the "breeders" and are not wanting to get "into it" anymore.

I am NOT HERE TO JUSTIFY BREEDING MY BLINKIN' DOG! I have stated numerous times that we don't even know if she will ever be bred! I am here to debate and discuss and learn!!!!!!!!

Are the breeders excepting my points? NO NO NO....so what makes that any different than me as an owner. Go dog on yourself and them if you don't like the fact that this is supposed to be a simple debate! I am not asking for others to agree or disagree if they don't want to! This is a blinkin' debate!

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

You're missing the point. An owner that just decides to breed their dog could easily sell a puppy with health problems out of ignorance. This is less likely to happen from a breeder, at least an honest one. The owner is responsible in maintaining the pup's health but you shouldn't be put in the position of buying an unhealthy puppy. The knowledge a breeder SHOULD have makes it less likely tho issues can arise even with an ethical breeder. If that were to occur, a breeder should stand behind the health of the puppy. Do you really think that would happen with an owner that just bred their dog with no real thought or intent? If you want to debate fairly, at least get real. There is no iron-clad guarantee with any living thing that a health issue won't arise. It's how it's handled that makes the difference. Breeders are at least aware of the potential whereas someone just breeding their dog casually (generally) is ignorant of it.

I am debating fairly. I simply don't agree with this point. Both litters are deemed healthy and that means both are contributing to population.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by RebelBelle

I wouldn't buy any puppy from a booth. I don't believe that choosing a pet is a decision that should be made on a whim. Nor do I think that an ethical, experienced, responsible breeder would ever sell their puppies to the first person who happened into a booth with the cash.

To be honest with you, the breeders have every right to "go easier" and "be more encouraging" on those with cute puppy pictures and and coat dilemmas in other sections because those people are just showing off their PETS. Now when you come down to the breeders section, and say "hey I'm thinking about breeding my unregistered pet quality yorkie" things are clearly going to go differently. Because at that point they are no longer helping you decide which shampoo to use on your puppy, but rather explaining to you the life altering ramifications and expectations of breeding a living breathing being.

Please know that unlike you, I am now definitely heated as are several other members, I'm sure. I have nothing to gain from being on one "side" or another of this debate. The devil's advocate defense only carries you so far.

Oi.

The "booth" scenario was an example as I was walking along. I don't believe I have ever in my blessed life seen a booth set up with puppies to be sold. Simply an example of side by side.

Heated people don't have to be here. No problem there. Plenty of others are reading this an not posting...learning and deciding.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by feminvstr

well said

hypothetical scenario - pet breeder breeds litter (because they wanted another puppy and decided to place the rest and will perhaps not breed again) all look healthy and happy, place said puppies...6 months later one puppy gets sick and dies, where is the pet breeder then? Will they answer the buyers calls, will they refund the buyer the vet expenses, will they or are they capable in replacing said puppy? This is why a puppy buyer needs to be informed and trust that the breeder not only is ethical in his/her breeding practices but will be around when a puppy owner needs help not just breeding to pay for the summer vacation!

Yup, I totally agree with this statement. In terms of guarentees....a registered breeder is certainly the way to go.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Diego

I am a pet yorkie owner , all mine are rescued . I had them spayed and neutered . I sincerly think that peoples should be more responsible when they decide to put a litter in this world , responsability don't stop when all pups are in new homes , responsability is during the entire life of the little one .

I agree. Both breeders and owners need to think before they do.

[TeddyandTiffy]

Originally Posted by KYBLUE

my self personally would never breed unreg dog's period
i have seen alot of stuff lately that just has turned my stomach as to what some byb are doing to this breed in my area one in indiana and one in ky
and these are so called breeders that i actually went to see and afterwords i could not get to a store fast enough for a can of lysol to spray myself and my jeep and these were reg

one i went to had there dog's in a mud pen and they were so matted
and dirty it made me want to cry so i don't know anymore
what is in the box or out i just know the abundance of ckc apri aca are on the rise and i really am terribly scared for this bred and what will come out of all of this in 5 year's from now

and i have petted a few out that were not to the standard
and i myself would never have used for breeding as far as this debate
i feel you will do as you wish it really does not matter how any of us feel

all we can do is try and perserve the best for when the yorkie fall's and the popularity of this breed goes down what will we have left a sick and broken
breed just go threw the sick forum . i am not saying all show people should be the only breeder's out there but we should all care enough to do the right thing.

how many wrongs will have to be righted so the breed may flourish again

just my opinion!

Your post touched my heart as it is how I feel too, I want to perserve our Yorkshire Terrier Breed and this is what I myself am trying to do. I as for one do care enough about our percious Yorkshire Terrier Breed to do the right thing Lee

[Tx2Stepn]

Originally Posted by feminvstr

well said

hypothetical scenario - pet breeder breeds litter (because they wanted another puppy and decided to place the rest and will perhaps not breed again) all look healthy and happy, place said puppies...6 months later one puppy gets sick and dies, where is the pet breeder then? Will they answer the buyers calls, will they refund the buyer the vet expenses, will they or are they capable in replacing said puppy? This is why a puppy buyer needs to be informed and trust that the breeder not only is ethical in his/her breeding practices but will be around when a puppy owner needs help not just breeding to pay for the summer vacation!

I would like to add that some of your respected breeders are also members of Kennel Clubs that in turn work with the community to place stranded dogs. Our club has rehomed several pets, including 1 that his owner was sent to Iraq. We also work with the city to connect pet owners of all kinds with ppl that can help to train the owner and the pet to effect a happy home life keeping some pets from getting dumped. We also make an effort to educate the community on responsible dog ownership.

[YorkieRose]

The reason I do not feel like I am adding to the unwanted dog population is this...in my agreement if at any time in the dogs life it is unwanted, it may be returned to me...1 yr or 15 yrs old..does not matter. In MD/VA/DC the shelters and Humane socieies had my number incase a Primrose Yorkie ever showed up..or any Yorkie..and I have taken other breeders dogs and returned the pet to them in other areas..they were grateful. For many years I had the word PRIMROSE tatooed on the belly near their ID number before chipping.

Another thing I would like to say is...who you buy a puppy from is as important as the actual puppy itself. Pet owners come here all the time posting that their breeder refuses to respond to calls of help...they have a sick puppy, genetically unsound, breeder turns a deaf ear...you must trust the breeder, speak to the breeders vet, get references and make sure you as the pet owner are dealing an ethical breeder who will correct a situation if it occurs.
Best wishes to you...

[katelin]

Actually, Marc, I think this thread has gone pretty well. Not nearly as heated as some I've seen, which is why it is probably still open after 13 pages.

There is a full range of opinions on YT, and lots of passion for the breed. But the Breeders Talk section is primarily composed of people who show and breed Yorkies, so they have the most invested in preserving this breed as it is currently described. Unless the standard changes, I don't think any amount of debate will change the opinions on breeding.

To everyone's benefit, however, these are the same people who watch the big board and jump in when someone is in trouble - either health issues or breeding/whelping issues. So I have found that these people are adamant about breeding issues when it is simply a debate, but the first to help when it is "real life". And so I'm grateful for all of them. And some day you might be too. We never know what life will bring us.

Best wishes raising your little girl.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

The reason I do not feel like I am adding to the unwanted dog population is this...in my agreement if at any time in the dogs life it is unwanted, it may be returned to me...1 yr or 15 yrs old..does not matter. In MD/VA/DC the shelters and Humane socieies had my number incase a Primrose Yorkie ever showed up..or any Yorkie..and I have taken other breeders dogs and returned the pet to them in other areas..they were grateful. For many years I had the word PRIMROSE tatooed on the belly near their ID number before chipping.

Another thing I would like to say is...who you buy a puppy from is as important as the actual puppy itself. Pet owners come here all the time posting that their breeder refuses to respond to calls of help...they have a sick puppy, genetically unsound, breeder turns a deaf ear...you must trust the breeder, speak to the breeders vet, get references and make sure you as the pet owner are dealing an ethical breeder who will correct a situation if it occurs.
Best wishes to you...

I understand what you are saying completly and that is certainly a wonderful thing. My point (which breeders don't seem to want to agree with for whatever reason) is that 5 puppies born is 5 more this world has and 5 more that could have been saved from a shelter. Again, I am not against breeding or shelters...it was just a point to make that owners and breeders are adding to the pet population with pet quality animals.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by katelin

Actually, Marc, I think this thread has gone pretty well. Not nearly as heated as some I've seen, which is why it is probably still open after 13 pages.

There is a full range of opinions on YT, and lots of passion for the breed. But the Breeders Talk section is primarily composed of people who show and breed Yorkies, so they have the most invested in preserving this breed as it is currently described. Unless the standard changes, I don't think any amount of debate will change the opinions on breeding.

To everyone's benefit, however, these are the same people who watch the big board and jump in when someone is in trouble - either health issues or breeding/whelping issues. So I have found that these people are adamant about breeding issues when it is simply a debate, but the first to help when it is "real life". And so I'm grateful for all of them. And some day you might be too. We never know what life will bring us.

Best wishes raising your little girl.

I was very happy and grateful from the day I joined this forum for breeders comments and owner comments alike. I still am! I am aiming to learn about the breed....came across this issue....decided to debate it.....nicely if possible...so all can gain in understanding.

Thanks for the wishes...she a sweetie who just piddled on my carpet,lol. Talk about impatient!

[Tx2Stepn]

Originally Posted by Marc

I understand what you are saying completly and that is certainly a wonderful thing. My point (which breeders don't seem to want to agree with for whatever reason) is that 5 puppies born is 5 more this world has and 5 more that could have been saved from a shelter. Again, I am not against breeding or shelters...it was just a point to make that owners and breeders are adding to the pet population with pet quality animals.

There is no way of breeding just "show" quality animals, but if you ever figure out how to every show breeder on here would like to know the secret.

[T Doll]

Originally Posted by Marc

First of all..this is the breeders section so like me as an owner...we don't pop down here much. Second...I have had numerous PM's from people on the "other side" that are in full agreement with my points but have been shot down by the "breeders" and are not wanting to get "into it" anymore.

I am NOT HERE TO JUSTIFY BREEDING MY BLINKIN' DOG! I have stated numerous times that we don't even know if she will ever be bred! I am here to debate and discuss and learn!!!!!!!!

Are the breeders excepting my points? NO NO NO....so what makes that any different than me as an owner. Go dog on yourself and them if you don't like the fact that this is supposed to be a simple debate! I am not asking for others to agree or disagree if they don't want to! This is a blinkin' debate!

If you want to be taken seriously, you shouldn't respond with the attributes of an angry, uneducated teenager. Telling me to "go dog on myself"? Right, very mature. I could say a million other things to you right now, but, I'm not going to stoop to your level of idiocy and ignorance.

You say want a "debate", but you want to be the only one being able to argue your points. You just shut others down when they make completely valid points. You couldn't be any more closed-minded and that's what bothers me about this whole "debate". If you really believe that you're not here to "JUSTIFY BREEDING YOUR BLINKING DOG" (as you put it earlier), good for you. You could've fooled me.

Anyways, I'm done with this thread. Have fun "learning" and shutting down everyone else's opinions and facts. You sure seem to get a kick out of it.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by Marc

I am debating fairly. I simply don't agree with this point. Both litters are deemed healthy and that means both are contributing to population.

Yes, and there are too many people on the planet too so what's the point of debating the pet population issue. People are going to do what they want until they're better educated. The pet buying public will be the one to affect the over-population problem. Until they are more widely educated, some breeders are just going to be 'chasing a buck'. A more demanding public will force breeders of all sorts to 'up their game' and some will get out when the 'easy money' is over. I look forward to that day. I think you are getting too hypothetical by saying both are 'deemed' healthy, whatever that means. You can only split a hair so fine. In the end, we're talking about real lives where our actions have real consequences.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Marc

I understand what you are saying completly and that is certainly a wonderful thing. My point (which breeders don't seem to want to agree with for whatever reason) is that 5 puppies born is 5 more this world has and 5 more that could have been saved from a shelter. Again, I am not against breeding or shelters...it was just a point to make that owners and breeders are adding to the pet population with pet quality animals.

I still dont get what you are saying. Yes, there are 5 more puppies in the world, but the people that put their name on the list for this specific breed were NOT in any way going to adopt the 5 dogs in the shelter. Same with anyone looking for any other specific breed. You dont seem to get my point either. So, tell me how the 5 shelter puppies could have been saved by not breeding the Yorkie litter.