Reputable Parti Breeders?

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by 4lilyorks

So are you saying there can not be color variations of a breed. Are you saying a Biewer can not be a purebred yorkie? What about breeds with multiple colors such as Dalmatians, Dachshunds, Labs, Great Dane, etc. Is only one color combination a purebred and the others are a mixed breed?

What are you talking about?? Who ever said color combinations determine a dogs purebred status?

Do the Dalmatians, Dachshunds, Labs, Great Dane, etc. have new names to go with their color variations?
Does their new color now make them a completely separate purebred?

The Biewer Terrier is not a mix breed it is a purebred. Read up on how purebreds have been developed in the past.

[MyTrixie143]

Sorry for jumping in here but I have been reading this thread and am a bit confused.
What is all the fuss about?

I thought biewers originated from two purebred yorkies? Why is the parti considered any different?

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by Pruett

What are you talking about?? Who ever said color combinations determine a dogs purebred status?

Do the Dalmatians, Dachshunds, Labs, Great Dane, etc. have new names to go with their color variations?
Does their new color now make them a completely separate purebred?

The Biewer Terrier is not a mix breed it is a purebred. Read up on how purebreds have been developed in the past.

DING DING DING
That's true, the Biewer terrier is not a mix breed, it is a purebred and it's called a Biewer Yorkshire Terrier ala Pom Pon. The Biewer Terrier was not developed, you took the Biewer Yorkie and changed the named to Biewer Terrier.. that's it.. you still have the same dogs that you had two years ago that you were calling Biewer Yorkshire Terriers and changed ONLY the name.. you did not develope a breed.. if the Biewer is indeed a seperate breed, it was that long before the Biewer Terrier name was manufactured.

Diana

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

Well, Thank you for asking Gayle, although you already know the answer to that question as I have the same exact breed that you do, I just had no desire or motivation to go off and change their name .. I have some Beautiful Biewer Yorkshire Terrier ala Pom Pon's.. actually, I have a lovely new litter and I'd be happy to post them if you'd like to see them.

-Diana

Your welcome.

What makes the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon any different than a Parti-Yorkie then?

[4lilyorks]

Originally Posted by Pruett

What are you talking about?? Who ever said color combinations determine a dogs purebred status?

Do the Dalmatians, Dachshunds, Labs, Great Dane, etc. have new names to go with their color variations?
Does their new color now make them a completely separate purebred?

The Biewer Terrier is not a mix breed it is a purebred. Read up on how purebreds have been developed in the past.

You said that I can not have a pure bred Yorkshire and a purebred Biewer Yorkshire, I guess I don't understand what you mean. Why can my Biewer Yorkshire not be a purebred Yorkshire Terrier; because of the name it was called in the beginning? I have never said the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier is a completely separate purebred from the Yorkshire Terrier. Germany also doesn't see them as a seperate breed otherwise they would not register splitters as Yorkshires. Also UCI wouldn't use the Yorkshire Terrier standard with an acception for color in the Biewer for thier shows.

I understand how purebreds come about. So can you tell me what the Biewer Terrier is made up of? Are all the lines being registered of the same mix of breeds? Have any Biewer Terriers tested as a pure bred yorkie?

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

DING DING DING
That's true, the Biewer terrier is not a mix breed, it is a purebred and it's called a Biewer Yorkshire Terrier ala Pom Pon. The Biewer Terrier was not developed, you took the Biewer Yorkie and changed the named to Biewer Terrier.. that's it.. you still have the same dogs that you had two years ago that you were calling Biewer Yorkshire Terriers and changed ONLY the name.. you did not develope a breed.. if the Biewer is indeed a seperate breed, it was that long before the Biewer Terrier name was manufactured.

Diana

You're wrong. You can believe what you want, but the facts are the Yorkshire Terrier did not turn into a purebred because of a recessive piebald gene. No breed on Earth becomes a separate breed because of a color variation.

We dropped the Yorkshire in Aug of 2006 when the club reorganized AND because we were able to prove they weren't purebred Yorkies, we didn't manufacture the name. But you think its ok for those that you referred to as "the rest of us" to change the name to Biewer a la Pom Pon???

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by Pruett

You're wrong. You can believe what you want, but the facts are the Yorkshire Terrier did not turn into a purebred because of a recessive piebald gene. No breed on Earth becomes a separate breed because of a color variation.

We dropped the Yorkshire in Aug of 2006 when the club reorganized AND because we were able to prove they weren't purebred Yorkies, we didn't manufacture the name. But you think its ok for those that you referred to as "the rest of us" to change the name to Biewer a la Pom Pon???

If you read what I wrote I said "if" the Biewer is a seperate breed. I am not saying that they are.

-Diana

[Snow Yorkies]

Originally Posted by 4lilyorks

Mars has said it can not tell if any other breed in the Biewer Terrier. They have found a genetic difference in the Biewers tested but can not tell if it is just a color gene (i.e. piebald gene) making the difference. I could easily run out and get my Biewer's tested but at this point until they tell me they can 100% tell me what is the point of waisting money.

Dear Ms. Miller,

Mars Veterinary has detected using both the Wisdom Panel MX test, and other scientific analysis that all the Biewer Terriers submitted to us for testing had a similar, but distinct, genetic signature to the Purebred Yorkshire Terriers we have tested. It is not possible for us to definitively state with current knowledge and technology what (if any) other breeds than Yorkshire Terrier were present in the foundation of the Biewer terriers pedigrees and what gene (or genes) are causing the distinctive coloration seen in the Biewer terriers. All we can say is that Biewer Terriers share closest genetic similarity to Yorkshire Terriers than they do to any other breed that the Wisdom Panel can detect. The question of which dogs founded the Biewer Terrier pedigree is more a question for the Biewer Terrier founder breeders. All we can state is that all Biewer Terriers tested with Wisdom Panel MX contain a significant amount of signature match to the Yorkshire Terrier, often with minor matches to other breeds including in some dogs - Japanese Chin and Maltese breed signatures amongst others.

It is clearly a matter for the various global Kennel Clubs and Breed clubs to determine what is and isn't a breed in their eyes, and also to draw up the breed standards and qualifying measures to determine which individual dogs are considered to be members of breeds.

I hope that I have gone some way to answering your questions. If you have any more, or would like further information, then please feel free to reply directly to me or to get in touch with our customer care team at customercare@marsveterinary.com or 888-K9 PET TEST (1-888-597-3883).

Regards,
Neale Fretwell
Mars Veterinary

Here is part of another email that was sent before this one.

What this means for your dogs is that, if taken now, the results of the Wisdom Panel MX test will predominantly be reported as Yorkshire Terrier with elements of other minor or trace breeds. At the present time, we do not recommend the test as an arbiter of the purity of any given pedigree.

I had the pleasure of speaking to Mr. Neale when my results finally came back. He stated to me that the Biewers that have been tested were Yorkshire Terriers. That there is couple signatures for the Yorkshire. There is an American, European and now the Biewer. Since in my test it said it had significant Yorkshire Terrier and no other breeds listed I questioned this and he explained to me that I had a Yorkshire Terrier. He also explained to me that many breeds they are testing has several signatures. The lab for instance has 5. I am posting a link for you to see my test results on one of my girls. No one has ever bothered to share their results, so let me be the first. Mr. Neale was very nice in explaining all of this to me and I will be more than happy to get you in contact with him if you are interested, just pm me for the information. Here is the link to my website to see my results BiewerYorkieGirls

[EnchantedToi]

Thank you Sue.. for posting your results.
It's so nice too see the information from Mars being posted.. both the letter and your results will give others researching a little more insight.

.............. if the First Biewer didnt come from Gertrude and Werners kennel... where did it come from?

Is it possible that the parents that produced this first litter had something else in its mix? well of course its possible.But without the dna being done on the original dogs or the first litter we may never know.

We all know that the pedigree is only as honest as the person writing it... We know that the offspring from the Biewer's mating produced these tri colored babies.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by EnchantedToi

Thank you Sue.. for posting your results.
It's so nice too see the information from Mars being posted.. both the letter and your results will give others researching a little more insight.

.............. if the First Biewer didnt come from Gertrude and Werners kennel... where did it come from?

Is it possible that the parents that produced this first litter had something else in its mix? well of course its possible.But without the dna being done on the original dogs or the first litter we may never know.

We all know that the pedigree is only as honest as the person writing it... We know that the offspring from the Biewer's mating produced these tri colored babies.

-Diana

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

I had the pleasure of speaking to Mr. Neale when my results finally came back. He stated to me that the Biewers that have been tested were Yorkshire Terriers. That there is couple signatures for the Yorkshire. There is an American, European and now the Biewer. Since in my test it said it had significant Yorkshire Terrier and no other breeds listed I questioned this and he explained to me that I had a Yorkshire Terrier. He also explained to me that many breeds they are testing has several signatures. The lab for instance has 5. I am posting a link for you to see my test results on one of my girls. No one has ever bothered to share their results, so let me be the first. Mr. Neale was very nice in explaining all of this to me and I will be more than happy to get you in contact with him if you are interested, just pm me for the information. Here is the link to my website to see my results BiewerYorkieGirls

Did he call you or are these email conversations?
Who are the parents of the dog you had tested?
How many dogs have you had tested?
Did he show you the group/cluster of dogs that your girl was in?
Did you ask him if there was a signature for the Biewer?
Did you ask him if there were a breed signature for the Biewer, would your dog would have tested differently?
The results said significant amounts of Yorkshire and trace amounts of other breeds.
So now is the Mars test reliable?
Do you have Neale's ph#?

[4lilyorks]

Can we see some of the results from dogs you have had tested Gayle? Do you have a test from a purebred yorkie so we can see the difference?

Can you go back and answer any of my previous questions?

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by EnchantedToi

Thank you Sue.. for posting your results.
It's so nice too see the information from Mars being posted.. both the letter and your results will give others researching a little more insight.

.............. if the First Biewer didnt come from Gertrude and Werners kennel... where did it come from?

Is it possible that the parents that produced this first litter had something else in its mix? well of course its possible.But without the dna being done on the original dogs or the first litter we may never know.

We all know that the pedigree is only as honest as the person writing it... We know that the offspring from the Biewer's mating produced these tri colored babies.

Funny thing Jan, when we got our first results in, we offered to share them with your officers and help them understand the results if they wanted to test also. You guys totally ignored us. I'm sure since Nancy has joined your club she has shared the results of her dogs tests with you.

One individual test means nothing without the results of the complete study. It's like having a jig saw puzzle and trying to put it together with half the pieces missing and the box cover destroyed.

A splitter will test significant Yorkshire, but is no where near the purebred Yorkshire cluster. What does that tell you?

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by 4lilyorks

Can we see some of the results from dogs you have had tested Gayle? Do you have a test from a purebred yorkie so we can see the difference?

Can you go back and answer any of my previous questions?

Sure, what questions are you talking about?

[reneernc]

...wondering what Gertrude Biewer's thoughts are...... From what I gather in this thread the pedigrees of her yorkies are being called into question, is that correct? If so, has she had an opportunity to defend her reputation?