Reputable Parti Breeders? - Page 23 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

4lilyorks · 01-28-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pruett

Sure, what questions are you talking about?

Posts 301 and 320.

Pruett · 01-28-2009, 09:38 PM

Here is one of the graphs. We now have haplotype analysis' and much more. If people were more interested in the truth we could be working together and sharing knowledge to improve the breed.

We did have a lot of the information up on our site at one time.

kpstoybox · 01-28-2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

I had the pleasure of speaking to Mr. Neale when my results finally came back. He stated to me that the Biewers that have been tested were Yorkshire Terriers. That there is couple signatures for the Yorkshire. There is an American, European and now the Biewer. Since in my test it said it had significant Yorkshire Terrier and no other breeds listed I questioned this and he explained to me that I had a Yorkshire Terrier. He also explained to me that many breeds they are testing has several signatures. The lab for instance has 5. I am posting a link for you to see my test results on one of my girls. No one has ever bothered to share their results, so let me be the first. Mr. Neale was very nice in explaining all of this to me and I will be more than happy to get you in contact with him if you are interested, just pm me for the information. Here is the link to my website to see my results BiewerYorkieGirls

Thank you for posting this Sue. It was very interesting to see some actual results from this test. We keep hearing that hundreds of Biewers have been tested, but have never seen any tests results.

Snow Yorkies · 01-28-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

I had the pleasure of speaking to Mr. Neale when my results finally came back. He stated to me that the Biewers that have been tested were Yorkshire Terriers. That there is couple signatures for the Yorkshire. There is an American, European and now the Biewer. Since in my test it said it had significant Yorkshire Terrier and no other breeds listed I questioned this and he explained to me that I had a Yorkshire Terrier. He also explained to me that many breeds they are testing has several signatures. The lab for instance has 5. I am posting a link for you to see my test results on one of my girls. No one has ever bothered to share their results, so let me be the first. Mr. Neale was very nice in explaining all of this to me and I will be more than happy to get you in contact with him if you are interested, just pm me for the information. Here is the link to my website to see my results BiewerYorkieGirls

Did he call you or are these email conversations?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

I had the pleasure of speaking to Mr. Neale

Who are the parents of the dog you had tested? Since I have the same lines as some of the BTCA members I picked from the list that you posted.
How many dogs have you had tested? Enough to satisfy my curiosity.
Did he show you the group/cluster of dogs that your girl was in? No
Did you ask him if there was a signature for the Biewer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

there is couple signatures for the Yorkshire. There is an American, European and now the Biewer.

The biewer falls in the Yorkshire signature. Sorry thought I explained that.

Did you ask him if there were a breed signature for the Biewer, would your dog would have tested differently? They are testing per Mr. Neale as a Yorkshire
The results said significant amounts of Yorkshire and trace amounts of other breeds. I tested as a purebred. From my results I posted where other breeds would have been reported I have dash marks. I also confirmed this with Mr. Neale.
So now is the Mars test reliable? I never said they were. Just that I tested.
Do you have Neale's ph#?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

I will be more than happy to get you in contact with him if you are interested, just pm me for the information.

Snow Yorkies · 01-28-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pruett

Here is one of the graphs. We now have haplotype analysis' and much more. If people were more interested in the truth we could be working together and sharing knowledge to improve the breed.

We did have a lot of the information up on our site at one time.

Did Mars prepare this graph from the testing done with their lab?

Snow Yorkies · 01-28-2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpstoybox

Thank you for posting this Sue. It was very interesting to see some actual results from this test. We keep hearing that hundreds of Biewers have been tested, but have never seen any tests results.

You are welcome. Had to see what the fuss was about. I know people had asked to see some results we were told to test so I did!!

Pruett · 01-28-2009, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

Did he call you or are these email conversations?
Who are the parents of the dog you had tested? Since I have the same lines as some of the BTCA members I picked from the list that you posted.
How many dogs have you had tested? Enough to satisfy my curiosity.
Did he show you the group/cluster of dogs that your girl was in? No
Did you ask him if there was a signature for the Biewer? The biewer falls in the Yorkshire signature. Sorry thought I explained that.

Did you ask him if there were a breed signature for the Biewer, would your dog would have tested differently? They are testing per Mr. Neale as a Yorkshire
The results said significant amounts of Yorkshire and trace amounts of other breeds. I tested as a purebred. From my results I posted where other breeds would have been reported I have dash marks. I also confirmed this with Mr. Neale.
So now is the Mars test reliable? I never said they were. Just that I tested.
Do you have Neale's ph#?

Sue, I ask who the parents were of the dog you had tested I didn't ask about your curiosity.

You obviously did not understand him, because he would not say that the Biewer falls under the Yorkshire signature. He would have told you that the Biewer is most closely related to the Yorkshire.

Why don't you share the results of the other dogs you had tested, aren't they just as important?

Pruett · 01-28-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

Did Mars prepare this graph from the testing done with their lab?

You're kidding aren't you?

reneernc · 01-28-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pruett

Here is one of the graphs. We now have haplotype analysis' and much more. If people were more interested in the truth we could be working together and sharing knowledge to improve the breed.

We did have a lot of the information up on our site at one time.

Can you please explain the values for the graph?

EnchantedToi · 01-28-2009, 10:16 PM

Biewer History has stated that the Biewers had been breeding and showing Yorkies for 20 years when they produced the first tri colored pup.
They continued to breed for this particular color combination for years.

Are you saying the Biewers.. were breeding in other breeds?

Or are you saying unscrupulous breeders after the Biewers,
over the years may have mixed in other breeds?
If your suggesting the latter....... that would be the case with many many breeds.

The BTCA clubs history page.. suggest the same ,the offspring was produced from two of the Biewers, Prized Yorkshire Terriers.

And as for you contacting anybody back then... your offer was to help arrange testing with Mars.
You ended your letter with
" if you have any questions, feel free to contact anyone of the board members"

However, I don't see how that has anything to do with the thread or discussion

reneernc · 01-28-2009, 10:41 PM

Sorry to keep butting into this squabble that has no end in sight.....but as someone trying to learn more I am really not gathering information that would sway my original beliefs regarding the breed.
Where/what are the facts? We hear alot but see much less.
I would be interested in finding out where tests have been conducted. Labs normally use some sort of letterhead that provides contact information. Perhaps "all" sides could go in together and establish a panel of experts to decipher the information gathered. Then everyone would be on the same page. Word of mouth tends to water down the reliability of information shared and it also tends to only bring out the part of the information the interested party wants to share.
I have the software necessary that we could easily have a webcast with speakers for all to enjoy and hear simultaneously without having to leave their home. this way, all the test could be seen while the expert educates all of us. I would willingly share my PC to facilitate a "learning" experience that I use for large group meetings as a means of bringing all sides together to hear facts by those that are professionals in their field. Is this a possibility? This is the only way I know of to finally throw the egg in the direction it was meant to go......., whichever side that might be.

sierrapups · 01-28-2009, 10:44 PM

Sue, you need to remember that we have dogs from your lines that have been tested. We know what is in your lines.
I don't understand why Dr. Neale F. decided not to share the entire case study with you but maybe he felt that it is privilaged information at this time.
You have to remember that Dr. Cynthia Fuller is a Phd. in genetics and was able to interpret their studies with us and Dr. Neale F. and one of his lab project analysts. This was done over two conference calls with Dr. Paul J. and then two with Dr. Neale F.
We could understand why you might be confused as to what the tests mean if you are only testing one or two dogs.
And yes there is a way for them to tell if it is a European or American Yorkie.

Pruett · 01-28-2009, 11:05 PM

If the BBCI and BYTNC feel that this is a Yorkshire Terrier, then why are you guys petitioning UKC, and AKC for breed acceptance?
Also, ARBA until they accepted the BTCA.

Pruett · 01-28-2009, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reneernc

Can you please explain the values for the graph?

What are you wanting to know? It shows the Biewer Terriers in a group all by themselves. If they had the same genetic make-up of a Yorkshire Terrier they would have been in the cluster of pink dots. If they were mutts, they would have been all over the board, not in a cluster.

reneernc · 01-28-2009, 11:22 PM

I am not a member of either but would assume they have done so for similar reasons that you are.
next question-I understand you show as Biewer Terrier through ARBA, don't you also show with IABCA and NAKC as Biewer? Are the titles you win from IABCA or NAKC valid since the breed is listed differently and I would assume a different standard than what you have?

01-28-2009, 10:16 PM	#340
EnchantedToi Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ontario Posts: 218	Biewer History has stated that the Biewers had been breeding and showing Yorkies for 20 years when they produced the first tri colored pup. They continued to breed for this particular color combination for years. Are you saying the Biewers.. were breeding in other breeds? Or are you saying unscrupulous breeders after the Biewers, over the years may have mixed in other breeds? If your suggesting the latter....... that would be the case with many many breeds. The BTCA clubs history page.. suggest the same ,the offspring was produced from two of the Biewers, Prized Yorkshire Terriers. And as for you contacting anybody back then... your offer was to help arrange testing with Mars. You ended your letter with " if you have any questions, feel free to contact anyone of the board members" However, I don't see how that has anything to do with the thread or discussion __________________ Jan www.enchantedbiewers.com "Be cautious of the breeder who has nothing good to say about anyone!"

01-28-2009, 10:41 PM	#341
reneernc Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: alabama Posts: 807	Sorry to keep butting into this squabble that has no end in sight.....but as someone trying to learn more I am really not gathering information that would sway my original beliefs regarding the breed. Where/what are the facts? We hear alot but see much less. I would be interested in finding out where tests have been conducted. Labs normally use some sort of letterhead that provides contact information. Perhaps "all" sides could go in together and establish a panel of experts to decipher the information gathered. Then everyone would be on the same page. Word of mouth tends to water down the reliability of information shared and it also tends to only bring out the part of the information the interested party wants to share. I have the software necessary that we could easily have a webcast with speakers for all to enjoy and hear simultaneously without having to leave their home. this way, all the test could be seen while the expert educates all of us. I would willingly share my PC to facilitate a "learning" experience that I use for large group meetings as a means of bringing all sides together to hear facts by those that are professionals in their field. Is this a possibility? This is the only way I know of to finally throw the egg in the direction it was meant to go......., whichever side that might be.

01-28-2009, 10:44 PM	#342
sierrapups Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: California Posts: 104	Sue, you need to remember that we have dogs from your lines that have been tested. We know what is in your lines. I don't understand why Dr. Neale F. decided not to share the entire case study with you but maybe he felt that it is privilaged information at this time. You have to remember that Dr. Cynthia Fuller is a Phd. in genetics and was able to interpret their studies with us and Dr. Neale F. and one of his lab project analysts. This was done over two conference calls with Dr. Paul J. and then two with Dr. Neale F. We could understand why you might be confused as to what the tests mean if you are only testing one or two dogs. And yes there is a way for them to tell if it is a European or American Yorkie.

01-28-2009, 11:05 PM	#343
Pruett BANNED! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 209	If the BBCI and BYTNC feel that this is a Yorkshire Terrier, then why are you guys petitioning UKC, and AKC for breed acceptance? Also, ARBA until they accepted the BTCA.

01-28-2009, 11:22 PM	#345
reneernc Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: alabama Posts: 807	I am not a member of either but would assume they have done so for similar reasons that you are. next question-I understand you show as Biewer Terrier through ARBA, don't you also show with IABCA and NAKC as Biewer? Are the titles you win from IABCA or NAKC valid since the breed is listed differently and I would assume a different standard than what you have?