Reputable Parti Breeders?

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by reneernc

I am not a member of either but would assume they have done so for similar reasons that you are.
next question-I understand you show as Biewer Terrier through ARBA, don't you also show with IABCA and NAKC as Biewer? Are the titles you win from IABCA or NAKC valid since the breed is listed differently and I would assume a different standard than what you have?

We feel we have a genetically separate breed, not a Yorkshire Terrier with a recessive piebald gene. The others don't feel that way so why are they submitting?

I went to one NACK show and probably won't go again. The Judges with IABCA get the standard wherever they feel like it. They are suppose to be using the standard that Mrs. Biewer signed for us, which is almost identical to ours. Our Championship titles are issued to Biewer Terriers as the UCI has recognized our club as parent club for the Biewer Terrier.

[qraven]

from the MARS site:

Will WISDOM Panel™ MX mixed-breed analysis test for purebred dogs?
No. Mars Veterinary's current focus is the development of a state-of-the-art mixed-breed genetic identification test for dogs. Mars Veterinary has completed over 19 million genetic marker analyses and has typed over 13,000 dogs from the American Kennel Club (AKC) registered purebred dogs as well as mixed-breed dogs. This process gave Mars Veterinary the ability to distinguish between a purebred and a mixed-breed dog as well as the capability of identifying breeds present within a mixed-breed dog.

However, in order to identify a dog as an official or registered purebred, the DNA collection, analysis and development of the test would be much different. A purebred is defined as a canine that is bred from members of a specific or registered breed over many generations. Validation of purebreds


Why can't this test detect purebreds? Is Mars Veterinary worried about lawsuits?
The WISDOM Panel™ MX test was designed to determine the breed makeup of mixed-breed dogs. Its development involved the analyses of more than 19 million DNA markers from more than 13,000 purebred and mixed-breed dogs to best tell breeds in a mixed-breed dog apart.

In order to determine if a dog is a purebred, Mars Veterinary would ideally need DNA samples that cover all family lines for each breed of purebred dog. But since their focus was the development of a test capable of accurately determining the breeds in a mixed-breed dog, they did not focus on collecting such a catalogue of purebred dog DNA samples.

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Can this test be used by regulatory/animal control officials to determine whether breeds are legislated or banned in a particular community?
The WISDOM Panel™ MX is designed and intended to be used solely to identify the genetic history of a mixed-breed dog and no other purpose is authorized or permitted.

The WISDOM Panel™ MX is not intended to predict behavior in any particular dog. Each dog is unique and its physical and behavioral traits will be the result of multiple factors, including: genetics, training, handling and environment.

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Can shelters use this test to determine which dogs may be the least "adoptable", thereby putting certain dogs more at risk for euthanasia?
The WISDOM Panel™ MX is designed and intended to be used solely to identify the genetic history of a mixed-breed dog and no other purpose is authorized or permitted.

The WISDOM Panel™ MX is not intended to predict behavior in any particular dog. Each dog is unique and its physical and behavioral traits will be the result of multiple factors, including: genetics, training, handling and environment.

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*Hansen TV, et al. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2007;16:2072-2076, Swanson SM, et al. J Child Adolesc Psychopharmacol. 2007;17:635-646.

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[4lilyorks]

Originally Posted by Pruett

The Judges with IABCA get the standard wherever they feel like it. They are suppose to be using the standard that Mrs. Biewer signed for us, which is almost identical to ours. Our Championship titles are issued to Biewer Terriers as the UCI has recognized our club as parent club for the Biewer Terrier.

The iabca uses the standard that the UCI has told them to use at this time. It is not the standard that Mrs. Biewer signed for you. Yes a new judge printed out ARBA's standard by mistake one time this year and they were also handed the BTCA standard (plus BTCA flyers and pens) by you (Gayle) this year in Orlando which were pulled out of the ring. Other then that they have gone by the standard that UCI has told them to use. This is the FCI Yorkshire Terrier standard with a color variation allowment. I have a copy if anyone would like to see it.

Yes your standard is "almost" indentical. The problem is I don't agree to the changes you made. Why allow wider set ears? Why allow a two color face? Just to name a couple.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

What I find interesting is that members of the BTCA say these are not Yorkshire Terriers but they come to a Yorkshire Terrier forum to sell their non Yorkies. Anyone care to explain this? You can't have it both ways as these people are breaking the rules of selling their non-Yorkies on Yorkie Talk.

Good point.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

I can't speak for those few who feel that what they have they have decided to call Biewer Terriers, but the rest of us believe we have a pure bred dog, not a mix, that came from purebred Yorkshire Terriers.

-Diana

Yes I believe that you do also. thank you.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Pruett

What club do you belong to and who are the rest of you?

Since you have just said that you have purebred Yorkshire Terrier, then why are you calling them Biewers?
Don't the Parti-Yorkie breeders say they have purebred Yorkshire Terriers?

So what do you have, a purebred Yorkshire Terrier, or a purebred Biewer Yorkshire Terrier? It's one or the other.

Yes we parti breeders also have pure bred yorkies, with documantation form the AKC.

The Biewer history is out there for everyone to read. The Germany registries allowed them to be a separate breed.

If they arenot Purebred yorkies than what are they? where did they come from. They didn't all of a sudden just appear, they had to have a founding set of parents. What were those parents if not Yorkies? Who were the parents, who were the founders, what kennel developed them if not the Biewers? and why are you on a yorkie forum if you don't own a yorkie?

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

Well, Thank you for asking Gayle, although you already know the answer to that question as I have the same exact breed that you do, I just had no desire or motivation to go off and change their name .. I have some Beautiful Biewer Yorkshire Terrier ala Pom Pon's.. actually, I have a lovely new litter and I'd be happy to post them if you'd like to see them.

-Diana

I'd like to see them. I believe a yorkie by any other name is still a yorkie. Or you can take Yorkie out of the name but you can 't take the dog out of the breed.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Pruett

What are you talking about?? Who ever said color combinations determine a dogs purebred status?

Do the Dalmatians, Dachshunds, Labs, Great Dane, etc. have new names to go with their color variations?
Does their new color now make them a completely separate purebred?

The Biewer Terrier is not a mix breed it is a purebred. Read up on how purebreds have been developed in the past.

A pure bred what? if not a yorkie than what dogs were used to develope the breed, who were the founders if not the biewers. why would the Beiwers give them the name Biewer yorkies if they were not yorkies.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by MyTrixie143

Sorry for jumping in here but I have been reading this thread and am a bit confused.
What is all the fuss about?

I thought biewers originated from two purebred yorkies? Why is the parti considered any different?

Yes that is what we all thought, but Pruett has a new story. apparently she has a mixed breed that she is trying to pass off as a Biewer.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

DING DING DINGThat's true, the Biewer terrier is not a mix breed, it is a purebred and it's called a Biewer Yorkshire Terrier ala Pom Pon.* The Biewer Terrier was not developed, you took the Biewer Yorkie and changed the named to Biewer Terrier.. that's it.. you still have the same dogs that you had two years ago that you were calling Biewer Yorkshire Terriers and changed ONLY the name.. you did not develope a breed.. if the Biewer is indeed a seperate breed, it was that long before the Biewer Terrier name was manufactured.Diana

Wow and they think we parti breeders are mixed up. LOL At least we all agree on the fact that our dogs are yorkies.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Pruett

You're wrong. You can believe what you want, but the facts are the Yorkshire Terrier did not turn into a purebred because of a recessive piebald gene. No breed on Earth becomes a separate breed because of a color variation.

We dropped the Yorkshire in Aug of 2006 when the club reorganized AND because we were able to prove they weren't purebred Yorkies, we didn't manufacture the name. But you think its ok for those that you referred to as "the rest of us" to change the name to Biewer a la Pom Pon???

Oh you are soooooooooooo wrong. Many breeds have become separate breeds due to a color variation. When you watch the big dog shows they will tell you this breed was developed from that breed etc. some breeds became a separate breed because the ers were down instead of up.

Years ago they allowed that.

I believe that your particular line of biewer might have a different makeup from other biewers, but if that is true than it is because someone mixed in a different breed. therefore you have a mixed breed dog.

Before you can go off and start a different breed, you have to know when were and how they were developed.

[qraven]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

Well, Thank you for asking Gayle, although you already know the answer to that question as I have the same exact breed that you do, I just had no desire or motivation to go off and change their name .. I have some Beautiful Biewer Yorkshire Terrier ala Pom Pon's.. actually, I have a lovely new litter and I'd be happy to post them if you'd like to see them.

-Diana

WOW Diana ... I looked at my pedigrees and guess what all mine still say Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon even the one on my 7 yr old ... not one says biewer terrier.

BTW your new babies are to die for

all mean people go on ignore best way to deal with em ...

[qraven]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Oh you are soooooooooooo wrong. Many breeds have become separate breeds due to a color variation. When you watch the big dog shows they will tell you this breed was developed from that breed etc. some breeds became a separate breed because the ers were down instead of up.

Years ago they allowed that.

I believe that your particular line of biewer might have a different makeup from other biewers, but if that is true than it is because someone mixed in a different breed. therefore you have a mixed breed dog.

Before you can go off and start a different breed, you have to know when were and how they were developed.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by EnchantedToi

Thank you Sue.. for posting your results.
It's so nice too see the information from Mars being posted.. both the letter and your results will give others researching a little more insight.

.............. if the First Biewer didnt come from Gertrude and Werners kennel... where did it come from?

Is it possible that the parents that produced this first litter had something else in its mix? well of course its possible.But without the dna being done on the original dogs or the first litter we may never know.

We all know that the pedigree is only as honest as the person writing it... We know that the offspring from the Biewer's mating produced these tri colored babies.

I believe that some Biewers are testing different than others, I also believe that some partis will test different than others. There are some people out there that are mxing dogs and calling them parti colored torkies, nd I am guessing the smae thing happened to the Biewers.

So our best guess is to go with what we know until someone can come up with new facts.

and what we know is that the breed started out as purebred yorkies.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Pruett

Sure, what questions are you talking about?

Gayole, I believe that your dog could be testing different than other yorkies and other biewers. But that only proves that your particular line has something else mixed in. so where did it come from.