AKC's involvement with mills

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Oops.

Do both organizations keep stud books?

Re: the flying. I meant that if someone stopping registering dogs with the AKC b/c of ethical breaches, I would think they would be reluctant to ship dogs to England.

Yes, all of these clubs keep stud books..any organization can. This is what the different Biewer clubs in the US are doing...

I still don't get your point on flying..but maybe I am guessing you mean..Would a Kennel Club member in the UK want a dog that is registered with the UKC in the states? The answer probably is no. Just like the AKC or the German VDH or the Kennel Club all are considered top registries for their countries and have agreements with each other(American Kennel Club - Special Registry Services Questions). Registering volume breeders is a moral/ethical issue but the dogs are still considered purebred. Just like any of the breeders here...some you should trust ... some you should not.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

I don't have a butt picture either.

Even ignorance helps... we are forcing the knowledgable people to explain things.

lol no BUTT picture what up with that

yeah cindy is SMART she is on it with this topic so are the others - I am learning alot here for sure so thanks for explaining this and doing the research it is very interesting

[livingdustmops]

HaHa..I do have Butt pictures and I have to go load them..

I have spent years looking at all of this information and trying to figure it out..It is very complex and there are no easy answers to any of it except the ethics and the morals of the breeder. It all boils down to this person.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

I don't have a butt picture either.

Even ignorance helps... we are forcing the knowledgable people to explain things.

...and you're bringing the post count up, which makes people look to see what's going on...so it's all good .

Also, no one came to this thread as an expert. It's an interesting subject that's really easy to find info on, so everyone can contribute. Some may find it offensive to question the AKC, but no one is beyond scrutiny and, who knows, some good may come of it. We've certainly peeled the veneer away so people can have an informed opinion. What's surprising to me is that this issue hasn't blown up on here before. This has been going on for years.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

...and you're bringing the post count up, which makes people look to see what's going on...so it's all good .

Also, no one came to this thread as an expert. It's an interesting subject that's really easy to find info on, so everyone can contribute. Some may find it offensive to question the AKC, but no one is beyond scrutiny and, who knows, some good may come of it. We've certainly peeled the veneer away so people can have an informed opinion. What's surprising to me is that this issue hasn't blown up on here before. This has been going on for years.

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

This is a little off topic but does show another example of the AKC's lapse of ethics.

PEDIGREE FRAUD 1 - AKC STUD BOOK CORRUPTION, BULLDOG, KUVASZ, SAMOYED, Exclusive Interviews, Documentation

That's shocking!

I haven't posted much here but have been reading many of these links and the posts. My mind is overloaded with facts, figures and thoughts. Even though AKC didn't start out to be the registry it's become, it is now, what it is - a profit making business. Is it time for outside oversight of AKC? If so, that would be a shame....... just another business that lets greed get in the way of ethics I get so fed up with it - as with other business greed, there is too often a loser on the other end. And, in this case it's the poor suffering puppymill dogs.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by jencar98

That's shocking!

I haven't posted much here but have been reading many of these links and the posts. My mind is overloaded with facts, figures and thoughts. Even though AKC didn't start out to be the registry it's become, it is now, what it is - a profit making business. Is it time for outside oversight of AKC? If so, that would be a shame....... just another business that lets greed get in the way of ethics I get so fed up with it - as with other business greed, there is too often a loser on the other end. And, in this case it's the poor suffering puppymill dogs.

I can't think of any possible oversight that could be imposed. What they're doing isn't illegal, just as puppy mills aren't, except for when they go over the line as far as cruelty and negligence goes. AKC has become the premier registry due to the dogs and breeders associated with it and they've taken that cachet and squandered it. Money talks and everything else walks.

The pedigree fraud may be illegal, but it's really a side issue, though one could infer that, with the AKC's presence at dog auctions, some of that may be going on.

[livingdustmops]

The other part of this that has not been discussed is the sale of dogs to class B dealers. These are people who sell animals for research labs. In many cases they want purebred animals so they can see the reaction to different animals.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

The other part of this that has not been discussed is the sale of dogs to class B dealers. These are people who sell animals for research labs. In many cases they want purebred animals so they can see the reaction to different animals.

Should read: In many cases they want purebred dogs so they can see the reaction to different drugs and tests.

[TLC]

...most People Really Suck I am truly amazed, really, I am truly amazed at the lack of compassion, the true evil that is in 'most' of man kind...

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

The other part of this that has not been discussed is the sale of dogs to class B dealers. These are people who sell animals for research labs. In many cases they want purebred animals so they can see the reaction to different animals.

About 4 years ago I watched an HBO documentary on a kennel, in Missouri or Arkansas, I think. It was a guy that went undercover and worked for the kennel while secretly filming. The kennel owner was a class b dealer and bought dogs at auction for reselling to medical research. I know the show has been discussed here before.

This show was my introduction to a small bit of the dog business world. A few months after it aired was when I got Ruby (my first dog). At the time I didn't really know anything about puppymills or how people liked to breed the tiny dogs, because their puppies sell for more.

But, because of that documentary, I did know breeding her was never a consideration (even though uninformed people would ask me about breeding her) the thought a puppy I might have been responsible for bringing into this world, would ever go to medical research, made up my mind real quick!

It took every bit of constraint I had not to turn around and slap the woman at the auction here that was buying for medical research!

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by jencar98

It took every bit of constraint I had not to turn around and slap the woman at the auction here that was buying for medical research!

I came across something in the last couple days about dogs fetching more money to research labs than at auctions. The woman you saw was just profiteering by 'flipping' dogs. That's like a broker....only difference is the destination.

[TLC]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I came across something in the last couple days about dogs fetching more money to research labs than at auctions. The woman you saw was just profiteering by 'flipping' dogs. That's like a broker....only difference is the destination.

The whole thing is beyond sicken

[gemy]

Okay .. we have drifted. Which is more than okay. I posted some ideas, on how the AKC could pull up it's socks so to speak, and sadly not many other breeders added onto the list.

I was also educated via links on this posting to the massive extent of the problem at AKC.

But I would like to point out the Canadian breeder and owner of a Kuvasz stud certainly could have registered that dog at AKC with a CKC registration. What else went on, with this dog being used as a stud without her consent when her dog was on tour in the US is appalling.

Sometimes I feel that we are all casting sand in the wind ... How can we make a difference?

[Cherie6446]

How wonderful for these poor little souls to live in such a clean prison. Disgusting!!
Cherie
PS The AKC should clean up their act.