Medical Procedures Question.... Natalie is sick again... :(

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

Originally Posted by Tissy

Do you still have the recipe to help with hypo? Maybe it would be better?

I was thinking of trying that again - - but I thought that the a/d was supposed to be so good!

The big thing right now, is keeping the sugar levels up and the SODIUM LEVELS DOWN!! - - - which was likely the trouble with some of the fluid on her heart - the sodium in her diet, since she wouldn't take ANY pet food and having to give her baby food and cooked meats, etc. (even though everything was boiled and / or organic - - - there seems to be SO much salt in EVERYTHING!!) - - - OMG, the Gerber Baby meat sticks..... 325 mg SODIUM!!!! Ugh!!! Bad, bad, badddddddddddd!!!

Heck, even the Nutri-Cal, while it only has 1.01 mg - has sodium.... so when you add up all those little mg's in everything she eats - by the end of the day.... I've essentially signed her death warrant!!! <<sigh>> You'd THINK that when you go into your vet and SAY, "she won't eat ANYTHING, what can I give her?".... or "Are the Gerber baby foods okay if that's all she'll take?"....... the answer should be a firm NOOOOOOOO!!! Even the carrots and green beans.... 35mg sodium..... the "organic" prunes & oatmeal, that I would give her if she started showing signs of constipation... 15 mg sodium.... sweet potatoes, 30 mg - - - OMG, the Gerber Graduates "Lil' Meals" like chicken stew w/ noodles..... 470 mg SODIUM!!!!!!!!!

Someone should just SHOOT ME NOW!!!!

Well, that's ALL in the trash.... every single drop!! (stupid, stupid, STUPID!!!) - - - - and of course, the doc's say "nooo, it's not your fault... this is a congenital thing"... yadda, yadda..... maybe so, but I should have known enough not to exacerbate her condition by essentially POISONING HER!!!! <<tears>>

Just pray..... please....... He hears, and heals.....

[Wylie's Mom]

Oh, Dena, my heart is just breaking for you! I'm here at work w/ tears in my eyes, imagining what it would be like to be in your shoes right now. I don't have advice, am sending good thoughts your way. HUGS.

[laurenr]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Oh, Dena, my heart is just breaking for you! I'm here at work w/ tears in my eyes, imagining what it would be like to be in your shoes right now. I don't have advice, am sending good thoughts your way. HUGS.

What a coincidence you posted! Do you remember a few months back, you posted information about your meeting with a nutritionist? Perhaps there is is something in there that could help little Nat? You just seem so knowledgeable on the subject. I was actually thinking of you last night, in relation to this little girl and was about to post the link after doing a search:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93814


Dena Hon, my heart just goes out to you. What a wonderful Mommy you are.I am so sorry Nat had such a bad night. Don't listen to what other people are saying to you about "returning" Gracie. I truly believe she came into your life at EXACTLY the right time, to help you deal with Nat's illness; she provides, I am sure such stress relief for you, with her happy, boundless, healthy energy. I think she could be quite the tonic for you in the upcoming days.
I will check in here today off and on. I wish there was something that I could do for the both of you. Please feel free to PM me any time.
Huge, huge hugs to you both for the day,
Lauren

[bchgirl]

I am so sorry Natalie is sick....

Natalie's labored breathing is from the congestion pressing against her lungs. This tends to be worse when laying down. You may want to hold her upright to help with her breathing.

The dog cardiologist here has a long wait on their appointment schedule too, however, patients presently hospitalized at a vet's office...are seen more quickly. Perhaps your vet could make your referral?

Blessings sent for baby Natalie...

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

The more I read about the different symptoms of "heart disease" - the the more angry I become... maybe I'm looking for someone to blame, (because that's what people tend to do when they haven't hit the "acceptance" phase, I guess).... I don't know..... I know that veterinarians are trained to "do no harm" and to begin a treatment regimen that is the least invasive, etc.
But when the signs are so clearly there!!! (and they were!! ALL of them!! For WEEKS!!!) and no real effort is made to offer relief .... are they NOT DOING HARM????
I know nothing about heart disease.... but in the less than 16 hours I've been reading about it - - it took less than ONE to see ALL THE SIGNS to warrant further testing and/or other aggressive treatment!!
Remember when I kept saying "her ears are blue, her ears are blue!"???
I said the same to her vet - over and over again - along with "she can't breathe" - "she's coughing like crazy!" - "her belly is tight" - .... you know the "diagnosis" I got for Natalie's blue ears??? "Well, I don't know... her oxygen levels look okay, maybe she just has THIN EARS!!!".....
Now I see on that nutritionist's site, that, "if your pet has taken antibiotics, they can destroy important beneficial bacteria" - - - - well, Nat's been consistently on anti-biotics for over a month and started even more last night!! - - are they making her worse? Making her tiny little heart have to fight even harder?? The vet's have offered nothing to help combat the affects the antibiotics may have.... ugh! I'm just lost!

This is a nightmare!!

I'm waiting for a call back from Nat's vet regarding the referral to Texas A&M - though all the referrals and schedules in the world won't help her if we can't come up with the funds to have her treated.

Oh wait... okay.... I have a couple of skin-kids for sale!!! 1 is 10 and the other 12.... mighty handy around the house!! Highest bidder takes 'em... (must go to loving forever home together... will not separate... shipping, okay) <slight smile>


"BE HAPPY... When you can - - - LOVE... when they will - - - LAUGH... ALWAYS!!!" ~ Me

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by Mom2BabyNatalie

The more I read about the different symptoms of "heart disease" - the the more angry I become... maybe I'm looking for someone to blame, (because that's what people tend to do when they haven't hit the "acceptance" phase, I guess).... I don't know..... I know that veterinarians are trained to "do no harm" and to begin a treatment regimen that is the least invasive, etc.
But when the signs are so clearly there!!! (and they were!! ALL of them!! For WEEKS!!!) and no real effort is made to offer relief .... are they NOT DOING HARM????
I know nothing about heart disease.... but in the less than 16 hours I've been reading about it - - it took less than ONE to see ALL THE SIGNS to warrant further testing and/or other aggressive treatment!!
Remember when I kept saying "her ears are blue, her ears are blue!"???
I said the same to her vet - over and over again - along with "she can't breathe" - "she's coughing like crazy!" - "her belly is tight" - .... you know the "diagnosis" I got for Natalie's blue ears??? "Well, I don't know... her oxygen levels look okay, maybe she just has THIN EARS!!!".....
Now I see on that nutritionist's site, that, "if your pet has taken antibiotics, they can destroy important beneficial bacteria" - - - - well, Nat's been consistently on anti-biotics for over a month and started even more last night!! - - are they making her worse? Making her tiny little heart have to fight even harder?? The vet's have offered nothing to help combat the affects the antibiotics may have.... ugh! I'm just lost!

This is a nightmare!!

I'm waiting for a call back from Nat's vet regarding the referral to Texas A&M - though all the referrals and schedules in the world won't help her if we can't come up with the funds to have her treated.

Oh wait... okay.... I have a couple of skin-kids for sale!!! 1 is 10 and the other 12.... mighty handy around the house!! Highest bidder takes 'em... (must go to loving forever home together... will not separate... shipping, okay) <slight smile>


"BE HAPPY... When you can - - - LOVE... when they will - - - LAUGH... ALWAYS!!!" ~ Me

Im so sorry you are going thru this with little natalie. breaks my heart. i'll be praying for her.

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

Originally Posted by dexterandalana

that makes me so sad for you! how can people even think these sort of things??? my cat Tommy swallowed a toy which got lodged in his intestines and needed surgery to remove it. EVERYONE in my family and all my friends told me to put him down!! i was just out of school at the time and didnt have any money to pay for the $1600 vet bill, but there is no way i could put him down! my sister finally agreed to put it on her credit card.

anyway, I think all of us YTers should come up with some sort of fund raiser for little Natalie. maybe an auction or sale for those of us that make and sell dog clothes and goods?? all proceeds go to natalie? anyone else have any sort of suggestions or think this could work? or everone donates even $1 or $2...if all of us did it, it would go a long way....lets try to do our best for this little sweet girl...

It's so sweet of you to offer an idea to help out in that way.... but I've just been "warned" by admin that "Any threads or posts soliciting donations
will be deleted." - following my request to initiate some sort of YT funds drive not only for Natalie, but for other YT Yorkie babies in much the same situation both ill health / financial wise.

This was my request to admin in the wee hours of the morning.... (this post may be in violation of some YT rule that I'm not aware of, so if it's deleted, I apologize in advance...)

> Hi there.... I have a question... and a favor, to ask...
> First, is there anything "unethical" about posting a "donations needed for
> medical care" post in a forum?
> My baby Natalie has just been diagnosed today with an enlarged heart....
> and while we've only been members of the forum for a short time, I feel
> like many of the folks here have gotten almost as attached to Natalie as
> we have here at home.... she's a precious little girl.... one of the
> tiniest, if not THE tiniest Yorkie her age of the YT group - (almost 7
> months old and just 22 ounces today) - she has a strong, fighting spirit
> and I know, with the healing touch of God's hand, the wisdom of her
> doctors and medical staff, along with the love, support and prayers of
> those here on YT, she will be well again.
> We are located in OKC, OK and I am planning to take her to Texas A&M
> University's Veterinary Medicine Teaching Hospital immediately, as her
> condition is critical.... but, in order to do this, the funds must be
> available as Natalie's medical bills have already surpassed several
> hundred if not more, in care and treatment to this point even before
> having been diagnosed today - -and will most certainly run into several
> thousands before we find some resolve for her.
> Natalie is currenly being treated for symptoms here at our local
> veterinary clinic, but they simply do not have adequate facilities in
> which to further diagnose and treat her.
> Now the favor.......... I feel as though it would seem a bit "self
> gratifying" to ask for financial donations towards Natalie's care on my
> own... (even though I'm doing it now) and was curious as to whether you
> would have any "conflict of interest" or personal disregard in posting a
> "sticky" putting out the call for help for little Natalie on our behalf.
> In fact, I feel like this could lead to an exceptional "bringing together
> of hearts" and something that the YT community could possibly contribute
> to on a regular basis for any particular serious medical case..... maybe
> something that we do for one specific case each year.... I don't know....
> I'm aware that the call for donations is necessary on an ongoing basis to
> keep this fabulous resource up and running...... so again, maybe a special
> yearly fund-raiser dedicated to a pup / family with an exceptional need.
> Just something to think about for the future....
> As for Natalie and our immediate concerns..... I would like to hear your
> thoughts regarding my request.
> Thank you so much for taking the time to read this, and for your sincere
> consideration.
> All the best,
>
> Dena Lamkin & Baby Natalie
>
And then the more I thought... (and the less I slept)... I followed up with yet another contact...........

> Hi again...
>
> Thinking more on what I'd previously mentioned about a yearly funds drive
> of sorts for one deserving Yorkie in need of costly medical
> procedures/treatments.....
>
> Aside from my initial request... I feel that YT taking the initiative to
> form some sort of fund for other YT Yorkies in need in the future, could
> be the start of a genuine way to "serve the greater good".
>
> YT could announce that, throughout the year - 1.00 of every regular YT
> site support donation will go towards the ...... (oh I don't know... you
> could call it the "Friends Of Natalie Fund", ) - - anyway, if YT took
> that initiave and made that commitment, there is no doubt that it's
> members would follow suit and offer their support as well.... I know I
> would....
>
> In addition, a thread could be left open all year specifically for
> personal donations to the fund....... then say, from the months of "such"
> through "such n' such" - YT could accept it's members personal written
> requests for financial support for their Yorkie in need of extraordinary
> medical care.... in the month of "whatever", (or as emergency medical
> needs arise), the chosen (privately by admin and the moderators)
> "recipient" could be announced, with further details on his/her condition,
> specifying the medical need.... and a public member call for "one time
> donations" for those who have not managed to show support during the year,
> for new members, or those with a greater desire to offer assistance as
> they are able..... could be set into place....
>
> I think, not only would it allow YT to lead the way in honoring the true
> sense of fellowship and concern for our fellow Yorkie families - - but it
> would also almost certainly bring in many new members to the group....
> which in turn, allows potential opportunity to raise YT site donations to
> continue with the wonderful work you all do to provide this amazing
> "light" for it's members.
>
> It's late.... a sleepless night with my angel.... and maybe I'm thinking
> too much....
>
> Anyway.......... just my 4 cents.....
>
> Sweet dreams!
>
> Dena
>
Here is this morning's response from admin re: my contact....

Thank you for your feedback. We wish you the best in Natalie's care.

However due to past abuses, we do not allow solicitations for donations for
any members here at YorkieTalk. Any threads or posts soliciting donations
will be deleted.

This is to protect our community. Thank you.

-Admin

And...........

We do not feel we would know how to fairly allocate such funds if we created
one. Thus, we have decided to do an annual fund raiser for a Yorkie rescue
group, which we have done the past two years.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...highlight=2007

Thank you.

-Admin

So..... I guess that's that.... (I still think it would have been a great thing!) - but I suppose I understand the part of admin and this site in general.

Again, thank you so much for the kind thought..... YT family prayers, good thoughts and "cyber companionship" will have to be enough....... (though that in and of itself, is immeasurable!!!)

<<big hugs to everyone!>>

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

Originally Posted by laurenr

What a coincidence you posted! Do you remember a few months back, you posted information about your meeting with a nutritionist? Perhaps there is is something in there that could help little Nat? You just seem so knowledgeable on the subject. I was actually thinking of you last night, in relation to this little girl and was about to post the link after doing a search:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93814


Dena Hon, my heart just goes out to you. What a wonderful Mommy you are.I am so sorry Nat had such a bad night. Don't listen to what other people are saying to you about "returning" Gracie. I truly believe she came into your life at EXACTLY the right time, to help you deal with Nat's illness; she provides, I am sure such stress relief for you, with her happy, boundless, healthy energy. I think she could be quite the tonic for you in the upcoming days.
I will check in here today off and on. I wish there was something that I could do for the both of you. Please feel free to PM me any time.
Huge, huge hugs to you both for the day,
Lauren

Oh you should just see my Gracie...... it's evident that she knows something is going on with Natalie.... she keeps running up to the side of her playpen (it's a pack n' play and I have Nat up in the top part, not down in the bottom where Gracie could even see her) but she runs up, whimpers and runs back to jump in my lap, where she can look into the playpen at Nat - - watching ever so intently to see if Natalie responds to her whimpers... she doesn't - which makes Gracie more anxious... so she hops down and tries yet again to get into Natalie's "crib".....
A 360 from the "face chewing" she thought she needed to give Nat upon her homecoming!!

[laurenr]

Dena, how sad is it that past dishonesty of certain people should come back to bite a little baby as deserving as Natalie. This makes me SO angry. I am so very sorry about the response you got from Admin, because I am sure there are many people here that would want to help.I think the idea of a fund for members to donate to, to help our Yorkies in need was an excellent one. Surely there could be a way to ensure protection against fraud? If a baby such as Natalie has a chance of survival snatched away because of the lack of finances, well that is just unacceptable to me. We are all willing members of this forum, brought together by our common, immense love for these little dogs, that we cherish like our children; I am sorry for past victims of fraudulent actions, but I am even more sorry for those that suffer now because of it.
Sorry for my rant, but I am just SO frustrated right now, and this baby is breaking my heart.
Lauren

[ARCHIE]

I pray that you get some kind of help and relief for little Natalie.
If something can be put together for her treatment someone please
pm me because I would like to help.

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

Originally Posted by laurenr

Dena, how sad is it that past dishonesty of certain people should come back to bite a little baby as deserving as Natalie. This makes me SO angry. I am so very sorry about the response you got from Admin, because I am sure there are many people here that would want to help.I think the idea of a fund for members to donate to, to help our Yorkies in need was an excellent one. Surely there could be a way to ensure protection against fraud? If a baby such as Natalie has a chance of survival snatched away because of the lack of finances, well that is just unacceptable to me. We are all willing members of this forum, brought together by our common, immense love for these little dogs, that we cherish like our children; I am sorry for past victims of fraudulent actions, but I am even more sorry for those that suffer now because of it.
Sorry for my rant, but I am just SO frustrated right now, and this baby is breaking my heart.
Lauren

I truly hadn't set out to turn this thread into a "pity party".... I think I'm just spewing everything in my heart and mind right now onto the screen.... I certainly don't mean to bring saddness to anyone....
As for fraudulent practices... I'm fully aware they exist... but simple steps could be set into place to assure the validity of a YT member's claim of medical need for their baby..... a common requirement of a veterinary certified referral should be more than enough to confirm the need.

But, it is what it is - and we have to abide by the wishes and practices of admin and YT. <<shrug>>

[Oscar's Mom]

Dena, Did the x-ray of Natalie's heart look like the picture I posted? The reason I ask is this. This is a pic of Hank's heart. Hank was an American Bulldog...I loved him with all my heart and had great hopes and dreams for him. He was a show dog from champion lines. Hank never played with the other dogs, he just did not seem interested. And his gums were always white and we wondered what was up with that. He broke a toe nail and it got infected really fast and so bad that they had to amputate part of the bone becuase the infection spread to the bone! We finally took him to two more vets and the third one actually listened to his heart. He heard a murmer and took the x-ray. He diagnosed Hank with Pulmonic Stenosis...a hole between two chambers of the heart and when the heart pumps, the blood is forced back into the wrong chamber instead of out of the heart to supply the rest of the body with blood. Hank eventually developed congestive heart failure and his abdomen filled up with fluid. During his last weekend, I had to hold him upright to sleep because he could not breathe laying down. To me, this sounds like what Natalie has. The hardest decision I ever made was to have Hank put to sleep. He could never live with this condition and he was suffering. Sometimes we have to make that choice and it is never easy. I held him and looked into his eyes as he took his last breath and I swear there was thanks in his eyes. I hope that by some miracle, Natalie makes a full recovery...but if you come to the place I came with Hank, I pray the Lord gives you the strength to do the right thing.

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

Originally Posted by Oscar's Mom

Dena, Did the x-ray of Natalie's heart look like the picture I posted? The reason I ask is this. This is a pic of Hank's heart. Hank was an American Bulldog...I loved him with all my heart and had great hopes and dreams for him. He was a show dog from champion lines. Hank never played with the other dogs, he just did not seem interested. And his gums were always white and we wondered what was up with that. He broke a toe nail and it got infected really fast and so bad that they had to amputate part of the bone becuase the infection spread to the bone! We finally took him to two more vets and the third one actually listened to his heart. He heard a murmer and took the x-ray. He diagnosed Hank with Pulmonic Stenosis...a hole between two chambers of the heart and when the heart pumps, the blood is forced back into the wrong chamber instead of out of the heart to supply the rest of the body with blood. Hank eventually developed congestive heart failure and his abdomen filled up with fluid. During his last weekend, I had to hold him upright to sleep because he could not breathe laying down. To me, this sounds like what Natalie has. The hardest decision I ever made was to have Hank put to sleep. He could never live with this condition and he was suffering. Sometimes we have to make that choice and it is never easy. I held him and looked into his eyes as he took his last breath and I swear there was thanks in his eyes. I hope that by some miracle, Natalie makes a full recovery...but if you come to the place I came with Hank, I pray the Lord gives you the strength to do the right thing.

OMG - - - I know you meant well in sharing that.... and I am SO SORRY for the loss of your beautiful boy..... but in truth.... THAT was about the LAST story I needed to hear right now!!!!!!!!! <<more and more and more tears>>

[Oscar's Mom]

I know and I am sorry...but if that IS what is wrong with Natalie...I just wanted you to know. It is never easy.

[admin]

The issue of donations for medical help has been discussed many times here at YorkieTalk.

If a member wants to give money to another member for any reason, they can if they wish to. If a member wish to sell products for another person and give part of the proceeds to another member, they may do so. We will not and can not stop any member from spending their money as they wish. We urge all members to be careful when giving money to another person.

However, there have been instances in the past where people just come on to YorkieTalk to solicit money, and sometimes people even lie about it or make up stories. It is impossible to verify everyone's claim and to be fair to all members, we can not allow solicitations for donations for medical help here.

We do not feel comfortable establishing any kind of "medical fund" ourselves, thus we choose to do an annual fund raiser for an established Yorkie rescue organization.