This covers them all....Mercola, Becker, Cesar and a few more.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by gemy

Dear Gail: Hello ! Not so – see attached peer-reviewed paper. FYI – our Nutriscan test is also patented in USA, Canada , Europe and the Orient for dogs, cats and horses. Best wishes, Jean


AHVMA Journal Volumne 36 Summer 2014


I will send this onto Phil as I have no idea how to link a pdf file here.

I'll look it over and let everyone know what I think. This paper is from last summer, so if it's about the Nutriscan test, I'm surprised it didn't come up in my searches... Now to check my email--I'm excited!

[lisaly]

I keep hearing in this thread and the other that the Nutriscan is a scam, but how do we really know that? I know the test is unproven in the scientific community, which is important to do, but does that automatically mean that Dr. Dodds is purposely scamming people? Couldn't she really believe her product works? I absolutely agree that she should have peers review her product, but as I've stated before, she has done so many wonderful things throughout her career. That means something to me. When I was looking at Healthymouth, the fact that Dr. Dodds did the clinical trials from it also meant something to me. She was someone I trusted who was validating Heslthymouth, and it also had the backing of the VOHC.

As I have stated in the past, I travel approximately 45 miles round trip to go to my vet in the Hamptons. I had been going to this practice because my first breeder said he specialized in small dogs. The vet retired and my vet bought the practice. I love him, and I have been going to his practice for almost twenty years. He practices Integrative or Complementary Medicine, combining conventional medicine with Chinese medicine. Katie's vet is known nationwide for his use of Chinese Medicine. I was not a believer at the time, but my views have changed radically. In most cases we have used conventional medicine for my little girls through the years. In some cases we used herbal remedies, and they really worked. He is not a salesman at all, and he has earned my deep appreciation and respect. I've met so many people through the years, and that's why my views changed so radically. His results with cancer are amazing. He first recommends surgery when it can be done, and then he uses alternative therapies. I am writing this to use as an example. Most people don't think these therapies work, and they are entitled to the way they feel. In talking to people all these years, I know they work, even in the times when my girls were given herbs. I don't dismiss things, especially when it's from someone I trust the way I trust my vet.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by gemy

Dear Gail: Hello ! Not so – see attached peer-reviewed paper. FYI – our Nutriscan test is also patented in USA, Canada , Europe and the Orient for dogs, cats and horses. Best wishes, Jean


AHVMA Journal Volumne 36 Summer 2014


I will send this onto Phil as I have no idea how to link a pdf file here.

Okay, I figured out why this article didn't come up in previous searches. It's from the Journal of the American Holistic Veterinary Medicine Association. This is not a top tier peer-reviewed veterinary journal (see the Skeptvet here for his opinion on the JAVHMA: American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association (AHVMA) & its Foundation (AHVMF) | The SkeptVet). The article is a review article (at least it gives references, which I'll check out later when I can get behind the paywall), and it cites promising, but unpublished, data from Dr. Dodds' own research.

I'm more hopeful than I was, but I'm still not 100% convinced. I would like to see the data published in a prestigious journal. Overall, I would rate this as promising, but not proven. Many, many thanks to Dr. Dodds for making this paper available for perusal. If anyone else wants to read it, send Gail (gemy) or me a private message.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Okay, I figured out why this article didn't come up in previous searches. It's from the Journal of the American Holistic Veterinary Medicine Association. This is not a top tier peer-reviewed veterinary journal (see the Skeptvet here for his opinion on the JAVHMA: American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association (AHVMA) & its Foundation (AHVMF) | The SkeptVet). The article is a review article (at least it gives references, which I'll check out later when I can get behind the paywall), and it cites promising, but unpublished, data from Dr. Dodds' own research.

I'm more hopeful than I was, but I'm still not 100% convinced. I would like to see the data published in a prestigious journal. Overall, I would rate this as promising, but not proven. Many, many thanks to Dr. Dodds for making this paper available for perusal. If anyone else wants to read it, send Gail (gemy) or me a private message.

Yeah I figured you would say that - about AHVMA cause that is kind of what I thought too. I have not gone through the article in detail - and I will humbly try to get to the referenced research - but not holding my breath as so much is always behind pay firewalls.


I too thank Dr Dodds for her quick response and will wait 24-36 hours before I inquire as to her publishing in say JAVMA.

[107barney]

She's also on one of the journal's committees.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by lisaly

I keep hearing in this thread and the other that the Nutriscan is a scam, but how do we really know that? I know the test is unproven in the scientific community, which is important to do, but does that automatically mean that Dr. Dodds is purposely scamming people? Couldn't she really believe her product works? I absolutely agree that she should have peers review her product, but as I've stated before, she has done so many wonderful things throughout her career. That means something to me. When I was looking at Healthymouth, the fact that Dr. Dodds did the clinical trials from it also meant something to me. She was someone I trusted who was validating Heslthymouth, and it also had the backing of the VOHC.

As I have stated in the past, I travel approximately 45 miles round trip to go to my vet in the Hamptons. I had been going to this practice because my first breeder said he specialized in small dogs. The vet retired and my vet bought the practice. I love him, and I have been going to his practice for almost twenty years. He practices Integrative or Complementary Medicine, combining conventional medicine with Chinese medicine. Katie's vet is known nationwide for his use of Chinese Medicine. I was not a believer at the time, but my views have changed radically. In most cases we have used conventional medicine for my little girls through the years. In some cases we used herbal remedies, and they really worked. He is not a salesman at all, and he has earned my deep appreciation and respect. I've met so many people through the years, and that's why my views changed so radically. His results with cancer are amazing. He first recommends surgery when it can be done, and then he uses alternative therapies. I am writing this to use as an example. Most people don't think these therapies work, and they are entitled to the way they feel. In talking to people all these years, I know they work, even in the times when my girls were given herbs. I don't dismiss things, especially when it's from someone I trust the way I trust my vet.

Others use healthy mouth. I was the first one who posted it here after a boarded vet dentist recommended it. They trust vohc stuff. That's the diff I see, nutriscan isn't being used by anyone but Dodds. And heathy mouth is just ok IMO.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by lisaly

I keep hearing in this thread and the other that the Nutriscan is a scam, but how do we really know that? I know the test is unproven in the scientific community, which is important to do, but does that automatically mean that Dr. Dodds is purposely scamming people? Couldn't she really believe her product works? I absolutely agree that she should have peers review her product, but as I've stated before, she has done so many wonderful things throughout her career. That means something to me. When I was looking at Healthymouth, the fact that Dr. Dodds did the clinical trials from it also meant something to me. She was someone I trusted who was validating Heslthymouth, and it also had the backing of the VOHC.

As I have stated in the past, I travel approximately 45 miles round trip to go to my vet in the Hamptons. I had been going to this practice because my first breeder said he specialized in small dogs. The vet retired and my vet bought the practice. I love him, and I have been going to his practice for almost twenty years. He practices Integrative or Complementary Medicine, combining conventional medicine with Chinese medicine. Katie's vet is known nationwide for his use of Chinese Medicine. I was not a believer at the time, but my views have changed radically. In most cases we have used conventional medicine for my little girls through the years. In some cases we used herbal remedies, and they really worked. He is not a salesman at all, and he has earned my deep appreciation and respect. I've met so many people through the years, and that's why my views changed so radically. His results with cancer are amazing. He first recommends surgery when it can be done, and then he uses alternative therapies. I am writing this to use as an example. Most people don't think these therapies work, and they are entitled to the way they feel. In talking to people all these years, I know they work, even in the times when my girls were given herbs. I don't dismiss things, especially when it's from someone I trust the way I trust my vet.

Well spoken as always Lisa. I won't speak for others just myself. I too have concerns that the underpinning research did not appear to be present. Recent link sent to me from Dr Dodds (see above) shows that she did publish some research but not in a highly accredited science journal...


But I too don't like it when folks disparage and make leaps to say because this test is *unproven* well actually some say invalid or a scam - they don't use the words *unproven* and unproven is just that *unproven*.


I really appreciated Dr Dodds very fast response to my email inquiry - and I view that as a favourable.


But I will share my concerns with her - apart from Nutriscan test, is her active involvement and review with two relatively recent (past 3 yrs or so) research one is the Viszla study - one is another I can't remember the name of - both had some concerns with methodology employed which meant the actual results of the research may have or have been perceived to have reduced value. That should be of concern to a scientist which of course everyone here knows I am not.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by gemy

Well spoken as always Lisa. I won't speak for others just myself. I too have concerns that the underpinning research did not appear to be present. Recent link sent to me from Dr Dodds (see above) shows that she did publish some research but not in a highly accredited science journal...


But I too don't like it when folks disparage and make leaps to say because this test is *unproven* well actually some say invalid or a scam - they don't use the words *unproven* and unproven is just that *unproven*.


I really appreciated Dr Dodds very fast response to my email inquiry - and I view that as a favourable.


But I will share my concerns with her - apart from Nutriscan test, is her active involvement and review with two relatively recent (past 3 yrs or so) research one is the Viszla study - one is another I can't remember the name of - both had some concerns with methodology employed which meant the actual results of the research may have or have been perceived to have reduced value. That should be of concern to a scientist which of course everyone here knows I am not.

Unless and until the American academy of veterinary dermatologist starts using the test, I have no choice but to continue to opine that it is not valid. They're the body that is most expert on allergies.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Others use healthy mouth. I was the first one who posted it here after a boarded vet dentist recommended it. They trust vohc stuff. That's the diff I see, nutriscan isn't being used by anyone but Dodds. And heathy mouth is just ok IMO.

I feel I should add to this by saying my vet dentist also recommends other water additives and greenies and milk bones so there's nothing special about healthy mouth. Three of my dogs don't like the taste. For $7 instead of $50, in having better results and wider acceptance with tropiclean water additive.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Just because people are speaking out against the validity of the saliva test does not mean they are disrespecting the people who use it. I don't like people saying things about my choices, such as the choice to use Hill's, Purina and RC products...BUT what I find offensive is when they label them as crap or other such terms and have NO real evidence that their claims are true.

The bottom line here is that Dr. Dodds is selling something that has no real research to prove her claims. I don't see the talk about it as disrespectful to anyone....people are merely pointing out the truth.

I am sorry that Jenny feels as she does because I don't believe anyone has any issue at all or means to be disrespectful to her. She is an awesome young lady. Yes, she made her choice to use this test....and it is not going to harm her pups. That does not make the test valid nor does the fact that she swears by it going to lead people to agree that it is a great product and worth the money spent.

ditto

[107barney]

Originally Posted by lisaly

I keep hearing in this thread and the other that the Nutriscan is a scam, but how do we really know that? I know the test is unproven in the scientific community, which is important to do, but does that automatically mean that Dr. Dodds is purposely scamming people? Couldn't she really believe her product works? I absolutely agree that she should have peers review her product, but as I've stated before, she has done so many wonderful things throughout her career. That means something to me. When I was looking at Healthymouth, the fact that Dr. Dodds did the clinical trials from it also meant something to me. She was someone I trusted who was validating Heslthymouth, and it also had the backing of the VOHC.

As I have stated in the past, I travel approximately 45 miles round trip to go to my vet in the Hamptons. I had been going to this practice because my first breeder said he specialized in small dogs. The vet retired and my vet bought the practice. I love him, and I have been going to his practice for almost twenty years. He practices Integrative or Complementary Medicine, combining conventional medicine with Chinese medicine. Katie's vet is known nationwide for his use of Chinese Medicine. I was not a believer at the time, but my views have changed radically. In most cases we have used conventional medicine for my little girls through the years. In some cases we used herbal remedies, and they really worked. He is not a salesman at all, and he has earned my deep appreciation and respect. I've met so many people through the years, and that's why my views changed so radically. His results with cancer are amazing. He first recommends surgery when it can be done, and then he uses alternative therapies. I am writing this to use as an example. Most people don't think these therapies work, and they are entitled to the way they feel. In talking to people all these years, I know they work, even in the times when my girls were given herbs. I don't dismiss things, especially when it's from someone I trust the way I trust my vet.

I have a question.
If your vet uses a combo of conventional medicine + herbs and your dog gets better, why do you think the dog got better from the herbs part rather than the conventional medicine part? I guess I don't see the need to have add on items if there is a medication that, by itself, will do the job. Like Linda, I stop at nothing to get my dogs the vet care they need but to add herbs to conventional medicine that by itself cures a problem seems wasteful to me. Sometimes less really is more.

[gemy]

And sometimes less is just that less. If you with vet approval combine a liver tonifying supporting herbal supplement to a medication that is known to have toxic effects on the liver.... well that seems reasonable to me. A case of more is better.

[lisaly]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I have a question.
If your vet uses a combo of conventional medicine + herbs and your dog gets better, why do you think the dog got better from the herbs part rather than the conventional medicine part? I guess I don't see the need to have add on items if there is a medication that, by itself, will do the job. Like Linda, I stop at nothing to get my dogs the vet care they need but to add herbs to conventional medicine that by itself cures a problem seems wasteful to me. Sometimes less really is more.

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. In my case with my dogs through the years I used mostly conventional medicine, mostly because my girls were so difficult to pill. It wasn't easy to get my dogs to be able to take the capsules. They have a strong smell generally. Even when I thought I did, Kiwi was the master at hiding them in her mouth and spitting them out later. If a conventional medicatiòn had bad side effects, I chose herbal medication over traditional medicine. I can tell they worked because there were times that conventional medicine wasn't working enough or in one case Kiwi was in congestive heart failure and taking Enalapril started to harm her kidneys. Ashley started taking herbs for her trachea when she was fifteen. When she had a flare up that was especially bad, the herbs helped to bring down the inflammation, and her coughing reduced. Ashley's trachea problems weren't severe like her little sister, Gracie. Her doctor was working on something for the trachea, but he never mentioned it to me. A vet tech told me about it, but I know he wouldn't try to sell me something unless he felt it would work. Kiwi took herbs for her severe allergies after me giving allergy serums and conventional medicine. Her allergies still weren't under control enough. He tried her on some for a couple of months at no charge because he wasn't sure they would work for her. But more than my dogs, I heard countless stories from people I met there. There are are so many people whose dogs with cancer were helped immensely and also neurological issues. In many cases, they were sent there by there own vets as a last chance resort. People come from Manhattan, Virginia, New Jersey, Connecticut, all over Long Island, etc to bring their dogs or cats there. I'm amazed when I hear the stories told to me. I never feel pushed to give my dogs herbs or vaccines. I feel he a very honorable man, has a wonderful rapport with animals, and he is very respectful. My vet is a minimalist with vaccines and medicines, so in all but one case with Kiwi's allergies, these were not add ons. Katie has not taken any herbs yet, but I wouldn't hesitate to use them if she needed them.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by lisaly

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. In my case with my dogs through the years I used mostly conventional medicine, mostly because my girls were so difficult to pill. It wasn't easy to get my dogs to be able to take the capsules. They have a strong smell generally. Even when I thought I did, Kiwi was the master at hiding them in her mouth and spitting them out later. If a conventional medicatiòn had bad side effects, I chose herbal medication over traditional medicine. I can tell they worked because there were times that conventional medicine wasn't working enough or in one case Kiwi was in congestive heart failure and taking Enalapril started to harm her kidneys. Ashley started taking herbs for her trachea when she was fifteen. When she had a flare up that was especially bad, the herbs helped to bring down the inflammation, and her coughing reduced. Ashley's trachea problems weren't severe like her little sister, Gracie. Her doctor was working on something for the trachea, but he never mentioned it to me. A vet tech told me about it, but I know he wouldn't try to sell me something unless he felt it would work. Kiwi took herbs for her severe allergies after me giving allergy serums and conventional medicine. Her allergies still weren't under control enough. He tried her on some for a couple of months at no charge because he wasn't sure they would work for her. But more than my dogs, I heard countless stories from people I met there. There are are so many people whose dogs with cancer were helped immensely and also neurological issues. In many cases, they were sent there by there own vets as a last chance resort. People come from Manhattan, Virginia, New Jersey, Connecticut, all over Long Island, etc to bring their dogs or cats there. I'm amazed when I hear the stories told to me. I never feel pushed to give my dogs herbs or vaccines. I feel he a very honorable man, has a wonderful rapport with animals, and he is very respectful. My vet is a minimalist with vaccines and medicines, so in all but one case with Kiwi's allergies, these were not add ons. Katie has not taken any herbs yet, but I wouldn't hesitate to use them if she needed them.

Thanks for explaining. He sounds like a decent person who truly wants to help. at least he uses conventional items unlike some of them.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Unless and until the American academy of veterinary dermatologist starts using the test, I have no choice but to continue to opine that it is not valid. They're the body that is most expert on allergies.

Actually you do have a choice in what you say and how you say it. You can for instance say that this association does not recognize this test, you can say there is not research published in leading scientific journals, but you can't aver it is not valid. Where is your research to show it is not valid?


This test is *unproven* at this point in time. It is not *proven* for its validity or *lack thereof*.