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Old 03-17-2010, 10:44 AM   #1
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Sad Please Please help with aggressive biting!

Hi everyone, I'm a brand new Yorkkie mommy to Rocco and also brand new member to Yorkie Talk. I've already learned such great info here, but I am in desperate need of some seasoned help out there. I got Rocco in February at 8 weeks from a breeder who I think did a great job with the pup. She owns the mom as well as 3 other yorkies. The litter was home raised and very socialized before I brought him home...he is very intelligent, has loved his crate from day one and is progressing with his potty training. HOWEVER...his biting is getting worse by the day. And I don't mean puppy biting. I mean aggressive, snap-at-you and go back for more biting and growling. I have tried saying "Ow!", crossing my arms looking at the ceiling, walking away, the "claw" grasp (as if another litter mate would do, but not at all hurting him), and of course, repeated "NO" and "NO Bite". He gets so worked up sometimes lately the only thing that works is putting him in his crate for a "timeout" for about 2 minutes (which is done quietly without words and he doesn't protest at all). Then he's back at it 10 minutes later. My teenage daughter and son - who are very gentle and loving with him - have had him biting at their feet and legs when they attempt to walk away from this behavior. PLEASE help! By the way, he does not do this to strangers - he just showers them with kisses. He is now 13 weeks old and I simply will not tolerate a biting, aggressive dog. Again, it's NOT puppy gnawing or biting - he attacks you. It doesn't happen all of the time, but it is getting increasingly worse and it can happen at any time of day, either at playtime or 'quiet' time. What are we doing wrong?
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:54 AM   #2
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First- WELCOME

Second- i'm willing to bet the issue is due to how VERY early he went home. Yorkies should not go home before 12 weeks- 10 at the earliest. He needed to learn "manners" from his littermates. So now it is up to you to tell him that what he is doing is NOT ok.

I think what is important is that you choose a method and stick with it- bouncing from method to method is goign to confuse him. When Layla was little I decided that what was going to work for us was to flip her on her back (forcing submission) and not letting her go until she was calm and NOT fighting to get away. Here you are mimicking an alpha dog. However, it is essential that you do NOT let him up until he has submitted to you by resisting being on his back- this could be minutes long- but if you were to let him up before this- he wins- and you've accomplished nothing. I also used to stare into Layla's eyes when I did this- to show her I was in control.

Whatever method you choose (i feel the ones that mimic other dogs are the best- ie- the "bite" with your hands on the back of their neck- or flipping them on their back) stick with it.
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:00 AM   #3
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Welcome!

This is a recent thread on aggressive biting. I agree it is probably due to his leaving mom too soon, but there is nothing to be done about that now but to train him and work with him. Be patient and be very consistent.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/tra...58-biting.html
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:15 AM   #4
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While I agree that you need to establish yourself as the pack leader, I do not believe in doing that with an alpha roll. I have handled many yorkies with biting issues and have never resorted to such a technique. This, in my opinion, is a sure fire way to make a pup fear you rather than respect you. I am not an expert on wolves, but I do think that this is probably not something a momma wolf does to her puppies. Matter of fact, here is another interesting thing I just found on wikipedia (I am not a total believer in Wikipedia, but this article is interesting):
Alpha roll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are many articles on the web that you can google, but here are a couple for you to read:

Behavior: Understanding and Modifying

Dealing with Dominant and Aggressive Dogs


I am a firm believer in time outs and being "very" consistent. As soon as he exhibits this behavior he needs to be put in a crate and left there for a few minutes. Let him out and IF he immediately starts up, do it again. You must do this every single time and it needs to be immediate.

The fact that he does it only with you and your family is interesting. He must have gotten a message somehow that this is acceptable....time to let him know that to be a part of the family it is not acceptable and he will be away from his family if he does it!

Good luck! This needs to stop now for sure! If you cannot manage by yourself, I suggest finding a good behaviorist...not a trainer!
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:18 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcerella02 View Post
First- WELCOME

Second- i'm willing to bet the issue is due to how VERY early he went home. Yorkies should not go home before 12 weeks- 10 at the earliest. He needed to learn "manners" from his littermates. So now it is up to you to tell him that what he is doing is NOT ok.

I think what is important is that you choose a method and stick with it- bouncing from method to method is goign to confuse him. When Layla was little I decided that what was going to work for us was to flip her on her back (forcing submission) and not letting her go until she was calm and NOT fighting to get away. Here you are mimicking an alpha dog. However, it is essential that you do NOT let him up until he has submitted to you by resisting being on his back- this could be minutes long- but if you were to let him up before this- he wins- and you've accomplished nothing. I also used to stare into Layla's eyes when I did this- to show her I was in control.

Whatever method you choose (i feel the ones that mimic other dogs are the best- ie- the "bite" with your hands on the back of their neck- or flipping them on their back) stick with it.
Thanks so much for your input. Believe it or not, I also tried the submissive method for a couple of days and it seemed only to make him worse. I've also tried the distraction with toys, but that didn't work. I guess I'll just have to try one method and stick with it... I'm a bit sick to my stomach that the breeder assured me he was fine to go at 8 weeks because he was weaned. Now I'm panicked that I'm going to have a dog with behavioral issues for life. But rest assured, he can already sit and give his paw!
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:19 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkieusa View Post
Welcome!

This is a recent thread on aggressive biting. I agree it is probably due to his leaving mom too soon, but there is nothing to be done about that now but to train him and work with him. Be patient and be very consistent.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/tra...58-biting.html

Thank you so much. I did read this thread with interest, and that's where I got most of the methods that I've tried (and failed at!). I think I've gotten myself into way more than I can handle here with my 3.5lb terror that I happen to love to pieces.
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:23 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Roccosmommy View Post
Thanks so much for your input. Believe it or not, I also tried the submissive method for a couple of days and it seemed only to make him worse. I've also tried the distraction with toys, but that didn't work. I guess I'll just have to try one method and stick with it... I'm a bit sick to my stomach that the breeder assured me he was fine to go at 8 weeks because he was weaned. Now I'm panicked that I'm going to have a dog with behavioral issues for life. But rest assured, he can already sit and give his paw!

I think with patience and consistency you can stop this now! Yes, he did come to you quite young, but don't let it scare you into thinking you cannot change this behavior.

Take a look on the YHR website at Matty. Matty came to me as a feral animal. He bit me many times in the beginning. He no longer bites! Not that he would not under odd circumstances, but he has a lot of baggage. I helped him change his behavior with time outs...they DO work! They just need to be used consistently....VERY consistently. He came to me as an adult dog, not a puppy....so his behavior was more ingrained. If a dog like Matty can learn new behaviors, so can yours! He is a puppy so he will be easier to work with imo. Stop this behavior now before it IS ingrained!
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roccosmommy View Post
Thanks so much for your input. Believe it or not, I also tried the submissive method for a couple of days and it seemed only to make him worse. I've also tried the distraction with toys, but that didn't work. I guess I'll just have to try one method and stick with it... I'm a bit sick to my stomach that the breeder assured me he was fine to go at 8 weeks because he was weaned. Now I'm panicked that I'm going to have a dog with behavioral issues for life. But rest assured, he can already sit and give his paw!
He won't be that way for life. Lots and lots of them go thru this "stage" and it can be stopped. However, if it was me, I'd use an x-pen for his time-outs and not his crate. His crate, at least to me, should be a place where he feels safe and likes to be in. I would be afraid to use it as a place of punishment.
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:28 AM   #9
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It is up to you to know your dog. If he bites stranger's when they come to
your home, it's up to you to keep both the stranger and dog safe.
Keep him behind a gate. Don't allow him with the company until he settles
down then bring him in with a harness and leash and make him sit next
to you on the floor telling him good boy, giving him a treat. Perhaps he
feels threatened when strangers come into his home. When he realizes
good things happen to him when strangers come maybe he will be
more relaxed. This approach can also be used outdoors. No all dogs
like children. Walk on the opposite side of the street when you see kids
playing. He's telling you he does not like them. No need to force him.
The Alpha Roll is not used anylonger. It was determined that it only
makes the animal more aggressive. Your dog is who he is, it's up to
you to understand that and make him better behaved to protect him
and those who he might bite.
Good luck, don't give up because he's worth it. It just takes lot's
of work, patience and love.
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkieusa View Post
He won't be that way for life. Lots and lots of them go thru this "stage" and it can be stopped. However, if it was me, I'd use an x-pen for his time-outs and not his crate. His crate, at least to me, should be a place where he feels safe and likes to be in. I would be afraid to use it as a place of punishment.
Xpen is great...so is a small room, like the bathroom. The point is to let them see they cannot participate in family things if their behavior is inappropriate.

In Matty's case, I used a crate because I could pick it up and corner him.. hahah he was rough! I used the words "kennel up" every time. In time he learned to go to the crate on his own when I said those words....and honestly he did not view it as punishment. It really is NOT punishment..it is discipline. I have four open crates in my home that pups can go in IF they choose...some do like having a spot like that. Matty goes in one readily whenever he wants to get away, so I think he learned it was a safe place!
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARCHIE View Post
It is up to you to know your dog. If he bites stranger's when they come to
your home, it's up to you to keep both the stranger and dog safe.
Keep him behind a gate. Don't allow him with the company until he settles
down then bring him in with a harness and leash and make him sit next
to you on the floor telling him good boy, giving him a treat. Perhaps he
feels threatened when strangers come into his home. When he realizes
good things happen to him when strangers come maybe he will be
more relaxed. This approach can also be used outdoors. No all dogs
like children. Walk on the opposite side of the street when you see kids
playing. He's telling you he does not like them. No need to force him.
The Alpha Roll is not used anylonger. It was determined that it only
makes the animal more aggressive. Your dog is who he is, it's up to
you to understand that and make him better behaved to protect him
and those who he might bite.
Good luck, don't give up because he's worth it. It just takes lot's
of work, patience and love.

He is not doing it with strangers...only his family!
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkieusa View Post
He won't be that way for life. Lots and lots of them go thru this "stage" and it can be stopped. However, if it was me, I'd use an x-pen for his time-outs and not his crate. His crate, at least to me, should be a place where he feels safe and likes to be in. I would be afraid to use it as a place of punishment.
I agree his crate should not be used for punishment. My theory is a 'timeout', much like you would apply to a toddler. He is safe while he is also gaining control of himself (actually, he usually calms instantly). I'm hoping to give him the message of "we don't like to play / socialize with your when you behave this way", rather than a "Bad Boy!" punishment. He is quietly and GENTLY place in his crate, only for about 1-2 minutes, so he gets the message. I do hope you're right though, and this 'stage' of his can be stopped, or I'll be heartbroken that my little guy was taken away from his mommy too soon.
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:40 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by ladyjane View Post
While I agree that you need to establish yourself as the pack leader, I do not believe in doing that with an alpha roll. I have handled many yorkies with biting issues and have never resorted to such a technique. This, in my opinion, is a sure fire way to make a pup fear you rather than respect you. I am not an expert on wolves, but I do think that this is probably not something a momma wolf does to her puppies. Matter of fact, here is another interesting thing I just found on wikipedia (I am not a total believer in Wikipedia, but this article is interesting):
Alpha roll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are many articles on the web that you can google, but here are a couple for you to read:

Behavior: Understanding and Modifying

Dealing with Dominant and Aggressive Dogs


I am a firm believer in time outs and being "very" consistent. As soon as he exhibits this behavior he needs to be put in a crate and left there for a few minutes. Let him out and IF he immediately starts up, do it again. You must do this every single time and it needs to be immediate.

The fact that he does it only with you and your family is interesting. He must have gotten a message somehow that this is acceptable....time to let him know that to be a part of the family it is not acceptable and he will be away from his family if he does it!

Good luck! This needs to stop now for sure! If you cannot manage by yourself, I suggest finding a good behaviorist...not a trainer!
Thank you for your input. I agree that consistency is key, but also think that I am/was in panic mode, just desperate for something to work before I run out of time with this receptive little guy. I think the timeouts have given the best results so far, and better yet, is the easiest method for all of us, including my kids, to employ immediately. I'll have a family meeting, lay down the rule and give it a try!!
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:42 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ladyjane View Post
Xpen is great...so is a small room, like the bathroom. The point is to let them see they cannot participate in family things if their behavior is inappropriate.

In Matty's case, I used a crate because I could pick it up and corner him.. hahah he was rough! I used the words "kennel up" every time. In time he learned to go to the crate on his own when I said those words....and honestly he did not view it as punishment. It really is NOT punishment..it is discipline. I have four open crates in my home that pups can go in IF they choose...some do like having a spot like that. Matty goes in one readily whenever he wants to get away, so I think he learned it was a safe place!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roccosmommy View Post
I agree his crate should not be used for punishment. My theory is a 'timeout', much like you would apply to a toddler. He is safe while he is also gaining control of himself (actually, he usually calms instantly). I'm hoping to give him the message of "we don't like to play / socialize with your when you behave this way", rather than a "Bad Boy!" punishment. He is quietly and GENTLY place in his crate, only for about 1-2 minutes, so he gets the message. I do hope you're right though, and this 'stage' of his can be stopped, or I'll be heartbroken that my little guy was taken away from his mommy too soon.
I agree with you both. It isn't punishment, but discipline. Ladyjane, you got me laughing about your doggie!

They get past this stage fairly quickly, though. Maybe it is like the terrible 3's.

I thought of something I wanted to add. To me, it's like they just get more excited and more excited until they are out of control and a time-out or whatever breaks that cycle. It's like they have tunnel-vision and see nothing else.
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Last edited by yorkieusa; 03-17-2010 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roccosmommy View Post
I agree his crate should not be used for punishment. My theory is a 'timeout', much like you would apply to a toddler. He is safe while he is also gaining control of himself (actually, he usually calms instantly). I'm hoping to give him the message of "we don't like to play / socialize with your when you behave this way", rather than a "Bad Boy!" punishment. He is quietly and GENTLY place in his crate, only for about 1-2 minutes, so he gets the message. I do hope you're right though, and this 'stage' of his can be stopped, or I'll be heartbroken that my little guy was taken away from his mommy too soon.
What you are doing is not punishment...you are right! I think if you continue this method you will get the desired results. These little characters are very smart!
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