Two beautiful male champion line pups

[goldenray]

Originally Posted by Yorkieville200

Hi, Cher.

I don't breed or show, so, bear with me. But, could you explain, so us simple folk could understand, what was wrong with Ricki's original post with her puppies for sale?

I remember you , about 9 years years ago, I sent a question to Yorkshire Terrier Magazine, regarding my puppy's coat becoming matted, and you replied that I should lighten up on the conditioner. Well, you were so right! Sydney is now, 10 years old, and I have followed your advice and her long, beautiful coat, rarely mats. So, thank you again!

Sheila

Hi Sheila. First off I'm so happy that my advice worked for you. Good going since it is still your hardwork that has paid off for you.

On another note to advertise saying your dog needed only a few points to be an AKC champion when in honesty it only had 2 points is not good. It takes 15 points, of which 2 majors are required and are the hard ones. As breeders we need to at all time make sure our advertising is scrupulously honest. We want to make sure we never even accidentally mislead someone. Hope this helps.

Continued good luck on your baby.

[Saleswman]

Originally Posted by goldenray

Hi Sheila. First off I'm so happy that my advice worked for you. Good going since it is still your hardwork that has paid off for you.

On another note to advertise saying your dog needed only a few points to be an AKC champion when in honesty it only had 2 points is not good. It takes 15 points, of which 2 majors are required and are the hard ones. As breeders we need to at all time make sure our advertising is scrupulously honest. We want to make sure we never even accidentally mislead someone. Hope this helps.

Continued good luck on your baby.

Long time no see, I respect your comments.

Shirley

[Yorkieville200]

Hi, Cher.

I truly don't mind the "hard work" because I feel these girls deserve to look as good as their siblings, that have made it to the show ring. Taking good care of them, is the best way that I know, to show the breeders that entrusted them to me, that I appreciate having them. Besides, my girls love to look pretty! And Yorkies, know, when they look pretty!

Thank you for taking time to give me an explanation.

Sheila

[topknot]

Dear Cher, Excellent! I spoke to you several years ago on the phone - it was great to speak to one so nice.

It is an honor to have top experienced show exhibitors on our forum and we need you all to continue to return. This is how we All learn and grow.
T.

[baby03]

Cher I really do value your opinion and honesty. I appreciate all the help you gave me this past spring and NOT turning your nose up to me. Being that you did not know me and still gave me your time and wisdom. Thank you!!

[wnalegria]

Originally Posted by goldenray

After rereading this thread numerous times I see RhapsodyYorkies did no more than confront an untruth. This untruth has never been acknowledged. Yet she has been attacked for things never said by her here. And people have to wonder about why we have strict contracts. People complain they have been ripped off for show dogs. Well how important is it then to make sure every word spoken is the truth?

YTCA has been attacked. Let me make it very clear. YTCA does not ONLY promote showing dogs. They also promote good ethics. They do not expect their members to go on public forums and attack others. Confront misrepresentation of course. They promote ethical breeding practices. They promote backing up your puppies placed in other homes. Are there a few bad apples, well sure, isn't there in any organization, but the Great majority of YTCA members are extremely reputable breeders that would not come on a public forum and attack someone without just cause.

I see the whole country of Canada's show dogs have been attacked. Oh my God. They get put up because they traveled so far and the judges just give it to them???
Excuse me they win, because they SHOULD have won. It also is just one judges opinion. I win, another wins, the judge decides that day. The next day the judge might reverse it.

Rich folks only win. Well I guess I am the best person to speak on this since I have to look up to see poverty. You find an occasional political judge, again NOT the majority. If you have a good dog you will finish it's championship.

Contracts? I still have the original email from you fieristar to most of the show exhibitors in the country asking us to buy your dogs with an extremely strict contract. Most of us use contracts to protect our dogs, your concern was to keep them available close to you for stud.

I am no longer shocked at what I read on here or some other forums. A judge has been suspended for a short period of time because a person residing in their home handled dogs for someone which is not permitted. Just to keep clear on this also.

I have to ask how anyone could approve of the things that have gone on here. Confront untruths, we should all do that. That is being opinionated. But being opinionated is quite different than being mean.

If documentation was provided to you- that showed a YTCA member/members had not followed The YTCA guidlines and ethics what is your position. Ignore the situation or call the members attention to the problem.

If I am not mistkaken a YTCA member who is a judge did get a one year suspension and a fine of $2,500.00. The person in the household you spoke of for charging for the showing is the co-breeder of this line of yorkshire terriers. This person has lived in the home with the co- breeder for many years and is the co-founder of this line. I also think that the judge has his signature on the back of the checks and that the money was deposited in a bank account with his/her name on the account.

I would think that these two individuals would be aware of the AKC rules and regulations regarding these kind of matters. They filed an appeal and it was denied.

Bottom line is we all have gotten off track- this is Ricki's thread. There is no written requirement that you must state if your dog- is a Canadian, UKC, AKC , International or what ever type of Champion. The dog did earn the title.

When folks call to inquire about the puppies they will be provided the information that states what club/organization has awarded the title to the dog.

As to the number of points the dog was stated to have in AKC- I do not know- I was not involved in any of those conversations.

[goldenray]

Originally Posted by wnalegria

If documentation was provided to you- that showed a YTCA member/members had not followed The YTCA guidlines and ethics what is your position. Ignore the situation or call the members attention to the problem.

If I am not mistkaken a YTCA member who is a judge did get a one year suspension and a fine of $2,500.00. The person in the household you spoke of for charging for the showing is the co-breeder of this line of yorkshire terriers. This person has lived in the home with the co- breeder for many years and is the co-founder of this line. I also think that the judge has his signature on the back of the checks and that the money was deposited in a bank account with his/her name on the account.

I would think that these two individuals would be aware of the AKC rules and regulations regarding these kind of matters. They filed an appeal and it was denied.

Bottom line is we all have gotten off track- this is Ricki's thread. There is no written requirement that you must state if your dog- is a Canadian, UKC, AKC , International or what ever type of Champion. The dog did earn the title.

When folks call to inquire about the puppies they will be provided the information that states what club/organization has awarded the title to the dog.

As to the number of points the dog was stated to have in AKC- I do not know- I was not involved in any of those conversations.

I think I just made the statement that a judge was suspended because a member of his household showed a dog for compensation. Let's get away from the spite of this. You harp on this because of a lawsuit that has absolutely nothing to do with this whole issue so yes let's do keep this on track. A forum is not your personal arena. Handle your situation in the courts please.

[Ricki]

You know I am really tired of this and wish I had never posted anything here. Cher, I don't believe I have ever met you, but you have no right to say that I would mislead anyone. I have a right to put Cut 'N Polished on my site as a Champion. He earned it. You are not here when people who are interested in my pups come to look at them. They see his (UKC) Champion papers and also his pedigree. I have not misled anyone. If they do not like what they see on my site they will not call, and I have never had a problem selling healthy beautiful pups. I have never found out how many AKC points he had as I was not going to finish him AKC. He is much more than (pet quality) and anyone who knows the breed can see that. If he had not been home raised I am so upset with all this I would put him back in coat and hire Luke and Diane or Cindy Butsic to finish him, but he would be miserable away from home. He is not a puppy anymore and I will not do that to him just to spite people like the ones trashing him. Someone...for some reason thought they needed to send my post to Cynthia. (Whats up with that?) What business is my post to Cynthia? She has nothing to do with my kennel or my dogs! Well I can tell you why she thought it was her business and that is because I helped Edna Alfieri to be able to keep her dogs. She has a right to keep them, they are hers. I can guarantee I will be breeding Cut 'N Polished back to one of Edna's dogs and it will be in the show ring. Everything that Cynthia did and said was directed at me and my dogs, and you know yourself it was not (innocent concern). So the least you could both do was be honest (which you claim I am not). Everyone who has ever showed AKC knows that professional handlers in the ring will take a show hands down and it is not always the merit of the dog as you claim it is. Professional handlers are trained to show well, which is why they can take a show with a dog of less merit then others in the ring. That is their job, that is what they are paid to do, and most of them do it well. Why else would anyone hire them? I was approached many times by handlers wanting to handle Cut 'N Polished, but my husband was having fun doing it and that is what mattered to us. Cynthia and you have no right to put your nose into my business and say I am dishonest. You do not even know me!

[goldenray]

Originally Posted by Ricki

You know I am really tired of this and wish I had never posted anything here. Cher, I don't believe I have ever met you, but you have no right to say that I would mislead anyone. I have a right to put Cut 'N Polished on my site as a Champion. He earned it. You are not here when people who are interested in my pups come to look at them. They see his (UKC) Champion papers and also his pedigree. I have not misled anyone. If they do not like what they see on my site they will not call, and I have never had a problem selling healthy beautiful pups. I have never found out how many AKC points he had as I was not going to finish him AKC. He is much more than (pet quality) and anyone who knows the breed can see that. If he had not been home raised I am so upset with all this I would put him back in coat and hire Luke and Diane or Cindy Butsic to finish him, but he would be miserable away from home. He is not a puppy anymore and I will not do that to him just to spite people like the ones trashing him. Someone...for some reason thought they needed to send my post to Cynthia. (Whats up with that?) What business is my post to Cynthia? She has nothing to do with my kennel or my dogs! Well I can tell you why she thought it was her business and that is because I helped Edna Alfieri to be able to keep her dogs. She has a right to keep them, they are hers. I can guarantee I will be breeding Cut 'N Polished back to one of Edna's dogs and it will be in the show ring. Everything that Cynthia did and said was directed at me and my dogs, and you know yourself it was not (innocent concern). So the least you could both do was be honest (which you claim I am not). Everyone who has ever showed AKC knows that professional handlers in the ring will take a show hands down and it is not always the merit of the dog as you claim it is. Professional handlers are trained to show well, which is why they can take a show with a dog of less merit then others in the ring. That is their job, that is what they are paid to do, and most of them do it well. Why else would anyone hire them? I was approached many times by handlers wanting to handle Cut 'N Polished, but my husband was having fun doing it and that is what mattered to us. Cynthia and you have no right to put your nose into my business and say I am dishonest. You do not even know me!

I find it interesting that you come on here making all these comments. No one said your dog was not worthy. No one made one bad comment about your dogs other than you thinking it was said. An untruth was brought to the forefront, your own words he needed only a few points to finish his AKC title.
No one has made any negative remarks that I can see towards your dogs period, ony the remark you made. No one said he couldn't be an AKC champion. None of this is even the point.

You should take pride in what you have done, not what you have not done.

[Ricki]

If Cynthia did not say anything bad about my dog, what was (after all the times he competed he only got the points because it was a puppy competing against him). Come on Cher you know better than to say she did not mean to hurt my feelings or make my breeding look like I was a puppy mill. We only competed locally and did not do numerous competitions as Cynthia states. We did not travel to competitons. What she did was underhanded and catty. Why would she be concerned about my kennel when I take great care of my dogs. I am proud of my husband and my dog and what they accomplished. I do not have anything against you and did not have anything against Cynthia, but you do not know the terrible things she screamed to Edna on the phone and the language she used. I am sure she did not tell you. You yourself would have been horrified if you are the kind of person I have heard that you are. Thankyou Ricki

[goldenray]

Originally Posted by Ricki

If Cynthia did not say anything bad about my dog, what was (after all the times he competed he only got the points because it was a puppy competing against him). Come on Cher you know better than to say she did not mean to hurt my feelings or make my breeding look like I was a puppy mill. We only competed locally and did not do numerous competitions as Cynthia states. We did not travel to competitons. What she did was underhanded and catty. Why would she be concerned about my kennel when I take great care of my dogs. I am proud of my husband and my dog and what they accomplished. I do not have anything against you and did not have anything against Cynthia, but you do not know the terrible things she screamed to Edna on the phone and the language she used. I am sure she did not tell you. You yourself would have been horrified if you are the kind of person I have heard that you are. Thankyou Ricki

All I can answer to is what is written here not innuendo or assumptions. My important issues are honesty, integrity, ethics and care of dogs, so of course those are going to be things I speak out on.

Personally I think all of you should take a deep breath and solve your problems in person. This is no way to handle things of a personal nature.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by fieristar

I agree totally with your insightful observation of who has hurt whose feelings....Hi, Ricki, my good friend and confidant....Ricki has done more for dogs than most people out there....she was lucky to have been able to purchase good foundation stock that was not sold with outrageous contracts, she studied the breed for over a year before buying her foundation stock, she takes exquisite care of her dogs and is the best professionally trained groomer I have seen. She also cares so much about other dogs and pets and has helped many people by buying them things for their dogs/pets. She has the cadillac of grooming salons, just ask her how much she spent of the all breed bathing tub and hydralic tables she has.....She also previously dedicated much of her life to protecting the public by being a police officer...she also has attended college and is multilingual....she reads books that are 4 inches thick for fun!!....Ricki is a true friend she learned by making her own mistakes what breeding is all about and is highly intelligent. She also in her spare time which is very little to taking care of her father-in-law who is 89 years old and grooms his cats for him....Stating that UKC or other championships other than AKC or Canadian championships are worthless is a direct indication why so many people are turned off from purebreds because of the huge swelled heads and ASSES that wealthy show people have.....then there are the semi-wealthy show breeders who throw down a third place ribbon outside of the gate of a yorkie specialty in disgust because a wealthier well-known politically higher yorkie breeder/judge won over her dog. AKC is all politics and judges give other judges the points over the newer owner/handlers that is why one has to hire a professional handler to finish their dogs AKC championships! Yes, AKC is harder than UKC but there is also other countries that have even harder requirements to finish a dog than the U.S. Does "serious" people interested in breeding and showing only mean the ones with money? Does a low income mean that the person is too stupid to breed correctly or have the ability to learn genetics and be able to watch and observe the dogs that win in the ring and why and watch gait, movement, and the politics of the judges who almost always give the winners dog/bitch to other breeder/judges or professional handlers? And if you are from Canada and come into the U.S. and are wealthy and in the Canadian Yorkie Association almost always the points go to them for having traveled so far....I am not saying their dogs are not the best but I have seen better dogs in their line than some that complete their championships such as no neck or a heavier too dark of a coat and long body (not as balanced as their other champions). I have seen long time breeder judges that are putting dogs in the ring that are absolutely terrible but will win because they are old and well-known and have friends that are other judges so that long bodied, big eared, long muzzled, light coated dog becames a champion because of politics not because the dog is a good specimen just out of respect for the elderly show breeder/judge. It is real hilarious the statement that some have ears but do not hear and some of eyes but do not see because the one that said it is deaf, blind, and has no heart left in her at all only dollar signs and ego and doesn't have any real friends that love you for who you are but only for getting her dogs.......This same person stated "that if one works for a non-profit organization for people less fortunate than you and don't get paid a high wage for doing so then you are ignorant and a worthless individual". This is what the YTCA is coming to, poor sportmanship, not helping novices, belittling people, taking advantage of people who have not studied the breed and selling them pet quality as show quality, judges who are charging handling fees against the rules of AKC, not willing to part with their bloodlines to normal people, that they try to control dogs in the future that don't even have their names on the registration papers, by belittling and threatening people that they are going to blackball them!!!!This is why mutts called designer dogs are being bought for thousands of dollars because of the swelled heads that show breeders have!!!! When thousands of mongrels are being destroyed in our animal shelters every year. Why breed dogs in the first place if you are not willing to part with your puppies? How do newcomers get into the breed if no one is willing to sell them a dog without outrageous stipulations and strings attached for years to come down the line? What happened to gently urging newcomers to buy the right breed books, subscribe to the breed magazines, attend dog handling classes, and watch as many dog shows and specialities as possible to educate them not FORCING THEM to sign contracts for life, FORCING THEM to show whether they are ready to or not? Just an observation and I admire, respect and love Ricki as my good friend and she has beautiful yorkies and she will continue to learn as she goes along just like everyone else that breeds quality dogs!!! Love ya, Ricki!

I don't recall anyone saying a UKC championship is worthless and if Ricki was proud of the UKC championship why wasn't it stated when the pups out of the champion male were being offered for sale? If you all are proud of a UKC championship then put UKC CH. in front of whatever dog you are talking about.
Your take on AKC shows is interesting. I have thrown a 2nd or 3 place ribbon down outside the ring grumbling because my dog wasn't showing well and I darn well knew it. I also know my Yorkie likely sensed my nervousness so actually I blew it. Yes, there are times that exhibitors act inappropriately outside the ring. they know who they are and it does not give a good impression to spectators. but not ALL of them do.
As for it being political there is more to it than you think. It is called paying your dues which involves first of all taking a very nice well trained dog into the ring. It means learning to groom it for the rings which takes a lot of effort and time. It means taking handling classes that you pay for to learn how to handle your dog like the professionals you are competing against. Maybe the judge didn't put up your dog not because of political stuff but because it either was not the best one out there or you as the exhibitor made it look like not a very good dog. I will never deny that there can be politics involved. As breeder/owner/handler I have beaten professional handlers many times in the ring and I have seen many good breeder/owner/handlers beat them too both here in Canada and the US.
Excuse me????? Canadians win in the US because we travel so far and are rich. Good grief. Now that tells me way more about you than you think There likely are a few wealthier business people that are in Yorkies that show and breed. Most show breeders both in US and Canada have jobs, support themselves and their dogs BUTtheir dogs are their hobby not their income.
CONTRACTS
Nobody is forcing anyone to buy any show dog under whatever contract it is that that particular breeder happens to have. If you don't like the contract don't buy there, no one is going to put anyone in jail for going elsewhere.
So you haven't figured out why the contracts?
If you paid good money for a dog with no intentions of showing it why the heck would you want to buy it? For the express purpose to breed it? and you wonder why a reputable show breeder would object when you are trying to ride on their back when they have worked hard to build and keep their line of good dogs and go through all the work and expensive of showing their dogs? Why did you go to a reputable show breeder in the first place? Think about that.
When I was starting out I listened to show breeders tell me the why's and wherefore's and as I wasn't wanting to make money off my dogs, their contracts were fine with me.
There is nothing worse than working so hard for 10 -15 years to establish their breed as most show breeders have, only to trust someone they shouldn't have and have their line end up with someone who is breeding their bitch to death that they may have managed to get from the show breeder or offering the male for stud to anyone that comes along. I hate seeing ads stating that these are special puppies because there is such and such a line in it when that seller has done nothing in the show world except get a hold of that line and now sell these puppies for bigger bucks although those pups may still be pet quality. Or the line ends up in some puppymill being sold on their websites because a reputable breeder trusted a novice and then that novice went and sold puppies on open papers to the buyer paying the most money. This was not quite as much of a problem many years ago but given the amount of money that can be made from someone just breeding and selling dogs that happens to have a well known kennel name on the pedigree which has nothing to do with the seller, is the reason for the contracts.
Personally, I don't sell show dogs. I keep the best I produce for myself for show and breeding. I don't have many puppies in a year to choose from. I will always protect the kennel names of those show breeders that will entrust me with their line when they sold me a dog or or I used their male for stud. I have absolutely no business selling a show dog as I have not established my own line. Do you know what that is and what it entails? I learned from show breeders. I was a novice, still am in a lot of ways. I have had no trouble at all with YTCA and any other good show breeders entrusting me with their lines.
There is so much work, planning, and disappointments in the hobby of purebred Yorkies and showing your dogs. Yes and money which means I work harder.

[Saleswman]

I have read and reread this entire thread.....


I guess I am nieve......but, I happen to like and respect everyone that I have met online here......please, don't show me that Yorkie Showpeople are anything but committed and loyal to the breed...not hurtful or meanspirited people...lets just stop.

Quite frankly, I am very concerned about all the comments made here.....I want this to be a fun and informative board...

I am expecting to much???

[SolnzeUSB]

Originally Posted by Saleswman

Quite frankly, I am very concerned about all the comments made here.....I want this to be a fun and informative board...

I learnt more from this thread more than any other. And it is fun, even if it is a little edgy.

[Saleswman]

Originally Posted by SolnzeUSB

I learnt more from this thread more than any other. And it is fun, even if it is a little edgy.

That is very tactful.......my "midwestern roots" might agree.....

but the "southern belle" in me, was a tad uncomfortable with the "tone".