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Old 03-05-2011, 06:56 AM   #1
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Default Question about coat color

I'm sorry to inundate - I have searched the forum and haven't found anything pertaining to this: the YTCA updated their disqualifications saying that a dog can only be disqualified if it a solid color, unusual combination of colors,
or parti-colors. It mentioned that it can take 3 or more years for a coat to mature. So, my question is .. is there a way to know that the coat on my Yorkie will turn blue? I mean, what I'm trying to say is when I start entering her in about a year, and she's still black .. then that is undesirable, right? Help, I'm confused.
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Old 03-05-2011, 07:38 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by BiewerDiva View Post
I'm sorry to inundate - I have searched the forum and haven't found anything pertaining to this: the YTCA updated their disqualifications saying that a dog can only be disqualified if it a solid color, unusual combination of colors,
or parti-colors. It mentioned that it can take 3 or more years for a coat to mature. So, my question is .. is there a way to know that the coat on my Yorkie will turn blue? I mean, what I'm trying to say is when I start entering her in about a year, and she's still black .. then that is undesirable, right? Help, I'm confused.
What is difficult to understand is that while the standard specifically addresses color and the DQ, we present our dogs for evaluation to an AKC Judge and each judge's interpretation of the standard is different. I will say that I have a male that did not break color until the age of two.

So many things come into play when your pup is morphing into their final adult coat.

However, I'm interpreting from your post as that you don't plan to enter your girl intil she is a year, right? I would suggest you enter her sooner. While you train outside the ring, there is no training like the actual ring. The ring assits you in the final decison of whether your dog has the makings of a show dog.
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Old 03-05-2011, 07:46 AM   #3
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Thank you for that - I get that every judge may interpret standards differently than others. That makes sense. The only reason I said a year from now is because an exibitor/breeder that I've been emailing a little bit said she doesn't show anything under year. I guess since she's seasoned and knows what is definite show quality and what isn't then I guess that would be make sense. I hadn't thought of the real show ring as training. Thanks for the additional perspective and insight.

I read somewhere, and am not sure if this is true - maybe you could clarify; that Yorkies that have a bluish tint to their skin means their coat will turn the same way? Is that wrong?
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Old 03-05-2011, 08:03 AM   #4
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Usually you can tell by the time they are a year old if they will be the proper color. Some yorkies take longer to clear. When a yorkie starts to 'break' it will usually first be noticeable on their shoulders. You can part the hair and looking at it in the light for signs of the shiny steel blue color. If a pup breaks to early there is a chance it will be to light but not always. You have to know your bloodlines. Coat texture is very important also. From my observations it seems that some of the darker dogs are more of a modified silk and not the true silk that is desirable. You have to consider the facial color also. I prefer the shaded gold as called for in the standard vs the orangish gold or reddish gold that some yorkies have. There are so many variations that seem to be acceptable. What is very undesirable is to have black hairs intermingled with the gold. When a pup is breaking properly the roots will usually turn gray on the head and as the pup gets older the gray will turn to gold.

A yorkie with a cottony coat will sometime break late but the color is what is referred to as a 'clerical' gray. The coat will not have the proper silky texture. I find one of the most useful things in determining if the coat will be silky is the color of the eye shine in pictures. If the eye shine is red or orange then most likely the pup won't have a silky coat. If the eye shine is yellow then the coat might be more of modified coat, it can go either way and if the eye shine is green or even blue then most likely the coat will be silky.

If possible it would be nice if you could have your puppy evaluated by an experienced show breeder. There is so much more to consider beside just the coat and color. Proper conformation is essential and the attitude of the dog.
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Old 03-05-2011, 08:46 AM   #5
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Thank you for that - I get that every judge may interpret standards differently than others. That makes sense. The only reason I said a year from now is because an exibitor/breeder that I've been emailing a little bit said she doesn't show anything under year. I guess since she's seasoned and knows what is definite show quality and what isn't then I guess that would be make sense. I hadn't thought of the real show ring as training. Thanks for the additional perspective and insight.

I read somewhere, and am not sure if this is true - maybe you could clarify; that Yorkies that have a bluish tint to their skin means their coat will turn the same way? Is that wrong?
Bluish tint is an indicator that the dog will retain color, however, I've seen dogs with the blue tint to the skin stay black. Another area to look at is the pubic area of adog....if it's black with no indication of changing color....pretty good chance the dog will remain black and soft coated. Most black coated dogs are soft coated. I've only seen or felt one or two black dog that had a true silk coat. Once you've felt this coat you never forget it.

Now if a dog has a pinkish skin it's a pretty good indicator the dog will go light.

What you need to do is obtain the illustrated standard, which shows you how to recognize the correct color pattern on a dog.

If a dog breaks color too young, it's a pretty good indicator that a dog will go light. I prefer that a dog doesn't begin to break color until about 10 months of age. And then I prefer the blue bleeds through, not start changing at the topline.

As far as waiting till a dog is a year and in coat. If you plan to do this prior to sending the dog out with a handler, it's what I would recommend. However, I'd begin to take the dog in the ring as a pup for proper training....getting it use to the sights and sounds of the show venue, getting use to being in the ring with other dogs. Giving the dog a chance to mature and love the ring. I've seen too many owners hold their dogs back until they were in full coat and their dog hated the ring.....
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:24 AM   #6
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As far as waiting till a dog is a year and in coat. If you plan to do this prior to sending the dog out with a handler, it's what I would recommend. However, I'd begin to take the dog in the ring as a pup for proper training....getting it use to the sights and sounds of the show venue, getting use to being in the ring with other dogs. Giving the dog a chance to mature and love the ring. I've seen too many owners hold their dogs back until they were in full coat and their dog hated the ring.....
Thank you for your input, the both of you. I have signed up for conformation classes that start in a couple of weeks so that I can learn about handling myself. BJH thank you for your input about the eyeshine. I didn't know what that was and did a quick YT search and found several examples. I am excited to go home from work and try that out to see what happens.

If her coat turns out to be cottony, I will still want to do the training and take her to shows, so that I can still learn for a future prospect. Do you think that other exibitors will turn their nose up or judge because I didn't bring a dog that didn't have the correct coat texture?

I have discovered a breeder/exhibitor in my town (actually just lives about 3 miles from me!) and I hope to meet her soon. I would love to see her dogs and have her look at mine as well.
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:58 AM   #7
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Thank you for your input, the both of you. I have signed up for conformation classes that start in a couple of weeks so that I can learn about handling myself. BJH thank you for your input about the eyeshine. I didn't know what that was and did a quick YT search and found several examples. I am excited to go home from work and try that out to see what happens.

If her coat turns out to be cottony, I will still want to do the training and take her to shows, so that I can still learn for a future prospect. Do you think that other exibitors will turn their nose up or judge because I didn't bring a dog that didn't have the correct coat texture?

I have discovered a breeder/exhibitor in my town (actually just lives about 3 miles from me!) and I hope to meet her soon. I would love to see her dogs and have her look at mine as well.
Anything you can do to perfect your handling skills.

If your pup does turn out with a cotton coat (oh! by the way a silk coat reflects light, you can usually tell about 4 months of age as the new adult coat begins coming in) you will obtain knowledge and handling skills. I don't think exhibitors will turn their nose up. I would hope that they would not attempt to assess your dog unless you ask them to. A judge will not turn their nose up, but will provide you input.

Good luck and go for it....
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:59 AM   #8
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Just curious, based on your screen name. And you have not posted a pic of your baby, yet! Tsk, tsk! Is your puppy a Biewer?
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:00 AM   #9
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Just curious, based on your screen name. And you have not posted a pic of your baby, yet! Tsk, tsk! Is your puppy a Biewer?
I really don't think it is, since she describes her dog as black at this point. And she is asking about what age the black turns to blue.

She may not want to post a pic of her pup. I never post pics of my prospects.
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:15 AM   #10
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Just curious, based on your screen name. And you have not posted a pic of your baby, yet! Tsk, tsk! Is your puppy a Biewer?
Haha, no - I have two Yorkies and a Biewer. =) I should post pics! I am not home right now, but I will when I get home. I don't mind to show my puppy - in fact, maybe you could give me some input about you think of her. I know you wouldn't be able to say much since you can touch and feel her, but any comments are welcome. My adult Yorkie is black and tan and we keep her in a puppy cut, but my Biewer is a little tiny fart - just 2 lbs. 14 oz. She has the most beautiful coloring - but I'm going to assume that she has a modified silk coat? Her hair is very long and it is silkyish, but mats and tangles easily. Am I correct in saying this?
(BTW - I took both of them to a groomer for the first time ever a couple weeks ago and she CUT the long flowing hair on top of her head to half length without telling me. When I took out her topknot I almost DIED. She also cut a little too much on the sides where it was touching the ground, now it's about an inch shorter and she cut hair on the legs. She did an exceptional job grooming them, esp my Yorkie, but should have asked about cutting her hair.)

I hadn't thought of this until just now .. I think I will start practicing on my little Biewer girl hair wrapping. Hahaha, she won't know what in the heck I'm doing to her. LOL

Mardelin - have you ever seen someone bring in a cotton coat dog to show? You mentioned the coat reflecting light, and her hair does do that. Its very shiny, esp after I give her a bath.
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:23 AM   #11
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Haha, no - I have two Yorkies and a Biewer. =) I should post pics! I am not home right now, but I will when I get home. I don't mind to show my puppy - in fact, maybe you could give me some input about you think of her. I know you wouldn't be able to say much since you can touch and feel her, but any comments are welcome. My adult Yorkie is black and tan and we keep her in a puppy cut, but my Biewer is a little tiny fart - just 2 lbs. 14 oz. She has the most beautiful coloring - but I'm going to assume that she has a modified silk coat? Her hair is very long and it is silkyish, but mats and tangles easily. Am I correct in saying this?
(BTW - I took both of them to a groomer for the first time ever a couple weeks ago and she CUT the long flowing hair on top of her head to half length without telling me. When I took out her topknot I almost DIED. She also cut a little too much on the sides where it was touching the ground, now it's about an inch shorter and she cut hair on the legs. She did an exceptional job grooming them, esp my Yorkie, but should have asked about cutting her hair.)

I hadn't thought of this until just now .. I think I will start practicing on my little Biewer girl hair wrapping. Hahaha, she won't know what in the heck I'm doing to her. LOL

Mardelin - have you ever seen someone bring in a cotton coat dog to show? You mentioned the coat reflecting light, and her hair does do that. Its very shiny, esp after I give her a bath.
A coat should reflect light and it should be evident even in moonlight. The coat should be cool to the touch. And when lifted up with a brush it out and let it go it should drop right back into place

Yes, cotton coats have been taken into the ring. And remember a cotton coat can be a dark steel blue and not only black.
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Old 03-05-2011, 02:09 PM   #12
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I really don't think it is, since she describes her dog as black at this point. That's why I was cornfused. And she is asking about what age the black turns to blue.

She may not want to post a pic of her pup. I never post pics of my prospects. I think Donna (Brooklynn) was reluctant to, as well, which is an interesting insight into the exhibitor's world. Is it superstition or something else?
I hope you do post photos!
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:04 PM   #13
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I hope you do post photos!
Not a superstition at all, just something I don't do. A personal non-practice.

I do think Donna has posted photos, so I think it's just a personal preference.
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:07 PM   #14
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Thank you for your input, the both of you. I have signed up for conformation classes that start in a couple of weeks so that I can learn about handling myself. BJH thank you for your input about the eyeshine. I didn't know what that was and did a quick YT search and found several examples. I am excited to go home from work and try that out to see what happens.

If her coat turns out to be cottony, I will still want to do the training and take her to shows, so that I can still learn for a future prospect. Do you think that other exibitors will turn their nose up or judge because I didn't bring a dog that didn't have the correct coat texture?

I have discovered a breeder/exhibitor in my town (actually just lives about 3 miles from me!) and I hope to meet her soon. I would love to see her dogs and have her look at mine as well.
Good going. The best way to start out on the right foot is to find a great mentor. A person that will guide you every step of the way.
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Old 03-05-2011, 08:36 PM   #15
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Not a superstition at all, just something I don't do. A personal non-practice.

I do think Donna has posted photos, so I think it's just a personal preference.
You're right tho! I typically don't post show prospects either and actually this was the first time I did LOL...I was just excited about this litter LOL...I will typically post Radar pics or winning pics but usually show prospects aren't posted. And Mary your right personal choices and I like your choice LOL
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