Absolutely. That's why I said, it's just to promote the selling of puppies.

Our standard was recently changed to make sure parti's were not allowed in. That should tell people that it is not open for discussion.

[quote=kpstoybox;3261091]
See there you go talking about money again. :D I didn't say anything about prices. I know better. If they were selling for high prices you wouldn't be so dog eat dog to push them.

You cannot sell puppies, the price is dropping every day. They are very cheap when people look past the first couple ads that they find. LOL,


I see them advertised in rescue more than anywhere else. They are far from expensive.

[quote=kpstoybox;3259457]
What kind of breed and color dog is in your avar?

Cane Corso, Brindle.

would change the standard for the blue and tan
______________________________________________
You answered your own question.

Mr Biewer Never bred Shih Tzu's

That is a downright lie, Coming her and lieing for your entertainment shows how low some you will stoop to discredit the parti color.

Do you have a source for this? Just curious.

It should be noted that the first generation breeding between a yorkshire terrier and a shih tzu would NOT produce a tri colored puppy unless the yorkie also carried the piebald gene. Not to mention shih tzus have an undercoat...biewers do not.

With research telling us the "foundation dogs" that have produced tri colored puppies, whether biewer or partis, originated from kennels in the UK...I would say any mixed breeding, if it occurred, took place there.

My source regarding the biewers comes from the biewer breeders. Are you familiar with Leon Whitney's book "How to Breed Dogs"? It's an old book, I'm sure now out of print. But it explains the mode of inheritance of color and pattern for most all breeds. I'm not going to spend my holiday weekend researching but it would be interesting to know if the piebald pattern is a simple recessive gene.

No it's not a lie and what it does serve to show is how unaware many of the parti dog owners are of what is actually happening with the yorkshire terrier breed and how we got into this unfortunate situation.

Yes he did. And if I know that you should too. Knowledge is power and if you are going to continue with the parti colors, which I certainly assume you are, then you should learn the truth about the origins of your parti colors and understand the negative impact that they're making on a purebred breed such as the yorkshire terriers. Again, the only reason you are able to register your dogs is because AKC needs money. I know that they also register things like white german shepherds but you never see them in the ring either.

Where is your proof on both accounts of Mr biewer breeding Shih's and about the Parti's?
I agree Knowledge is power and I have talked with alot of people directly involved, your knowledge it looks like is coming from hearsay and Biewer breeder guesses.

The first Parti was from Nikko's Rolls Royce Ashley and Nikko's High Spirits.
The dog Woodcres(Shirley Caldwell)in OK. bred to was Nikkos Rolls Royce Manhatten.

In 2008 the Biewer Breed Club of America participated in a genetic study of the piebald coat color conducted by University Of Saskatchewan Department Of Animal Science under the direction of Dr. Sheila Schmutz. Dr. Schmutz presented this study at the 4th International Conference on the advances in canine and feline genomics and inherited diseases in France.

The results of which stated all the biewers were homozygous for the SINE mutation in the MITF gene promoter. This is the same genotype (SINE/SINE) that has been found in all the other piebald dogs we have tested.

4th International Conference: Advances in canine and feline genomics and inherited diseases

More from Dr. Schmutz.
Dog Coat Color Genetics

As a member of the BBCA whose members include breeders responsible for importing the first biewers into the US....I have never once been told nor shown any evidence that Mr. Biewer bred anything other than yorkshire terriers. Again if one wants to ascertain where perhaps the piebald gene was introduce into the breed...if one believes that had to happen...doing so is simply conjecture because no one knows. Any conjecture on the german breedings are a moot point regarding the partis that were produced in the US.

The common denominator in both breeds....the line traces back to the same kennel in the United Kingdom and there is evidence to support this.

The Streamglen line, correct? Has it been established whether or not normally colored yorkshire terriers are also homozygous for the SINE mutation in the MITF gene promoter?

May I ask if any effort is being made by your club to work with the other major biewer club and do what is necessary to become recognized by AKC as Biewer Terriers? Although it failed to pass I would guess that it's just a matter of time before AKC does realign the groups and add more including the Companion Group. They will be looking for breeds to fill the new groups and of course for added income. Why not start to police your ranks, remove those who are using splitters and do what is necessary to become an AKC breed?
The YTCA is trying to NOT open their standard for any reason and they certainly aren't going to open it to add white patches to the accepted colors. They will redo the DQ to make it more specific to the parti color and off colored yorkies. So, parti colors will forever remain the black sheep or should I say spotted sheep of this breed. If the Biewer breeders unite and succeed in becoming recognized it will ensure that there will never be a place for parti color yorkies. Biewers will become the white spotted yorkie type dog shown at AKC shows and you will be considered a legitimate breed.

Yes the AKC does need money. That is why the AKC will eventually change their policy when the right person takes a fancy to the partis.

I do not think it will change until a person with money and influence wants it changed. But when that person wants it done, it will be done, because money talks.

To the person who thinks Mr. Biewer bred s**tzus. you are so sure of your self, that I assume you have authentic documentation to prove this, and it is not just something that you read on another website. Not that it really matters when or how the white got in there, it is there. period.

Its in the standard. YOU are trying to change it. I have groomed enough dogs in my lifetime to know that white hair is not like the silky texture of a correctly bred Yorkie.
You are still changing the standard to fir your needs, plain and simple.

Once again, it's the majority of the membership of YTCA that votes to make changes. One person with money can't be the majority. I'm sure some votes can be bought but that will be a sad day for the Yorkshire Terrier Standard when money buys votes because it won't be about the dogs but about money so once again it's all about the money for Parti's....you are the one that keeps bringing up the money issue and so in my opinion it's about the money and not the dogs...

Oh and one more thing....AKC doesn't change the standard it's the YTCA that proposes the changes and sets the guidelines not AKC so let someone in AKC have money it's still the YTCA that has to make the change and the majority of the membership has to vote on it not AKC....

Are you telling me you have never had a standard yorkie born with pinkish toenails? I find it hard to believe. I have two akc championed sired yorkies and when I bred them together I received white on the chest, white on the back feet and some pinkish toenails. How do you explain that?

You're absolutely right Donna, if it was about the money, they'd have already caved in already.....born blond, brown, red being advertised as rare.

Of course it happens, however the nails turn to black and the white on the feet or chest turns to gold.

"Who is on first"....and so the saga Biewer, Parti, Traditional continues....tune in next time for another lively thread. :)

To the OP....Hylan has been discussed with out a proven answer. As to why some ytca breeders place puppies as they do with no ytca repercussions could be answered factually only by the ytca. I understand your point and agree with you, that clubs which expect high standards from it's membership, should consistenly enforce those standards. Just as with all breeders, ytca or not, it's really up to the individual and their ethics as to whether or not they are a reputable, responsible breeder....no club affiliation will provide what isn't already within a breeders character.

We both know the pinkish toenails do not always turn black and we know there are people who color them black before entering a show ring. We also know people who will dye the white on the chest or chin before entering a show ring.

wow I've never seen anyone color the toenails or the white on the chin and chest, I guess I learn something new everyday...guess you've see all of it done LOL love those folks you hang out with to know all that goes on in the show ring and grooming area...no one I know colors toenails or chins and chest

Yes, there is proof about Hylan on post #82
There were 7 pups born (2 full Parti)
DNA testing was done on Dad, Mom and all 7 pups before they were registered.

show me the records and then I'll believe it :) I don't know you from Adam so as far as I'm concerned it's hearsay :)

I've talked to quite a few show breeders and some of the things they told me that goes on in the show world and behind closed doors blew my mind.
Maybe there are a handful of honest people who show but most are not quite so honest.
It's all about the win and doing whatever you have to do in order to get it.
We know coats are dyed.
Coloring the nail, chin or chest is nothing new or surprising,
It's just another day in the show world.

This is the pedigree.

Think what you like, believe what you like, it is of no concern to me.