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-   -   Parti Color? YTCA? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yorkie-showing-information/211769-parti-color-ytca.html)

Brooklynn 09-05-2010 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 3261823)
Since AKC DNA'ed the Mom , Dad and the pups involoved in the Hylan lines
Seeing the pedigrees and pics - which had to be sent to AKC for the correct color classification.
Are you saying you would still doubt Hylan threw parti's ??

Your right of course.
But for those who would like to see the Mom Hylan's Darling Diva and the 2 parti pups (Quin and Mardi Gras) along with their pedigrees that were produced by Ch Hylan Acres Ridin the Storm you can see them here.
Yorkie Divas.com--AKC Registered Yorkshire Terriers-Traditional & Parti Yorkies
Maybe the dam is the parti carrier because it just says Hylan and not Hylan Acres, it appears to be the carrier because I know Ann always uses the kennel name Hylan Acres and not just Hylan. Just because it was a Hylan Acres sire doesn't mean it was from that sire. I know Ann isn't breeding for Parti's and she's not advocating the Parti's and I'm sure she would have spayed neutred had she known the sire and the dam as the carrier would produce a Parti. DNA would not show a parti carrier as there is no marker for color just as in LS there is no marker. DNA is just to prove parentage and not the carrier. I see the dam's side is the one with the very least amount of Champions so therefore it appears to me the sire's side is being taken advantage of and blamed. But of course this is all my opinion and one can take it as they see fit. I am still not for the breeding of Parti's as it is not the breed standard.

Breezeaway 09-05-2010 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3261834)
Maybe the dam is the parti carrier because it just says Hylan and not Hylan Acres, it appears to be the carrier because I know Ann always uses the kennel name Hylan Acres and not just Hylan. Just because it was a Hylan Acres sire doesn't mean it was from that sire. I know Ann isn't breeding for Parti's and she's not advocating the Parti's and I'm sure she would have spayed neutred had she known the sire and the dam as the carrier would produce a Parti. DNA would not show a parti carrier as there is no marker for color just as in LS there is no marker. DNA is just to prove parentage and not the carrier. I see the dam's side is the one with the very least amount of Champions so therefore it appears to me the sire's side is being taken advantage of and blamed. But of course this is all my opinion and one can take it as they see fit. I am still not for the breeding of Parti's as it is not the breed standard.
Both Hylans Darling Diva and Bubbles Larue II were bred by Anne Wylie/Vickie Miller

Breezeaway 09-05-2010 10:48 AM
No one is blaming anyone, I think the point is that it can happen. That no one knows why but it does happen that parti colors can be born from yorkshire terriers.
For YTCA to boast that it does not happen and that they are designer dogs is a lie.

yorkiegirl2 09-05-2010 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3261834)
Maybe the dam is the parti carrier because it just says Hylan and not Hylan Acres, it appears to be the carrier because I know Ann always uses the kennel name Hylan Acres and not just Hylan. Just because it was a Hylan Acres sire doesn't mean it was from that sire. I know Ann isn't breeding for Parti's and she's not advocating the Parti's and I'm sure she would have spayed neutred had she known the sire and the dam as the carrier would produce a Parti. DNA would not show a parti carrier as there is no marker for color just as in LS there is no marker. DNA is just to prove parentage and not the carrier. I see the dam's side is the one with the very least amount of Champions so therefore it appears to me the sire's side is being taken advantage of and blamed. But of course this is all my opinion and one can take it as they see fit. I am still not for the breeding of Parti's as it is not the breed standard.
Come on Donna you are reaching.
It states quite clearly on the pedigree who the breeder was,
Hylan’s darling Diva was bred by Ann.
Diva was sire by Ch Durrer’s Mighty Obsession and Bubbles LarueII
(Bubbles also sired by a Durrer dog).
Since we know it takes 2 gene carriers to produce Parti’s, it means that not only was the Hylan dog a carrier but so was the Durrner dog .
And I really don’t think Betty Ann Durrer was into mix breeding do you ???

Brooklynn 09-05-2010 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3261848)
Both Hylans Darling Diva and Bubbles Larue II were bred by Anne Wylie/Vickie Miller
I'm sure Ann didn't know what was going to be produced....

Brooklynn 09-05-2010 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 3261850)
Come on Donna you are reaching.
It states quite clearly on the pedigree who the breeder was,
Hylan’s darling Diva was bred by Ann.
Diva was sire by Ch Durrer’s Mighty Obsession and Bubbles LarueII
(Bubbles also sired by a Durrer dog).
Since we know it takes 2 gene carriers to produce Parti’s, it means that not only was the Hylan dog a carrier but so was the Durrner dog .
And I really don’t think Betty Ann Durrer was into mix breeding do you ???
I'm not reaching and I'm sure both breeders would have spayed and neutered if it were known a Parti was being produced....just like with any bad and undesired trait it would have been spayed and neutered and placed as a pet as that is what I would do in my breeding program and knowing Ann and knowing Betty Ann they would do the same...

Brooklynn 09-05-2010 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3261849)
No one is blaming anyone, I think the point is that it can happen. That no one knows why but it does happen that parti colors can be born from yorkshire terriers.
For YTCA to boast that it does not happen and that they are designer dogs is a lie.
I, for one, has never said it can't happen, just like any off color that is produced, it's what one does when it happens is the point. Just like with any issue whether it be color or any other genetic issue it can happen but again it's what one does with it after it happens. Especially those that want and breed to the standard of the yorkshire terrier.

yorkiegirl2 09-05-2010 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3261849)
No one is blaming anyone, I think the point is that it can happen. That no one knows why but it does happen that parti colors can be born from yorkshire terriers..
Yes, I think this is the whole point it does happen, these are not just colored designer dogs that were produced by BYB as some like to state.
These dogs came out of showdogs.

To dislike the dog is one thing but for YTCA to state Yorkshire Terrier does have a gene that produces the Parti color is a lie and deceiving the public.

Brooklynn 09-05-2010 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 3261857)
Yes, I think this is the whole point it does happen, these are not just colored designer dogs that were produced by BYB as some like to state.
These dogs came out of showdogs.

To dislike the dog is one thing but for YTCA to state Yorkshire Terrier does have a gene that produces the Parti color is a lie and deceiving the public.
I, for one, do not dislike any dog as they are G-d's creatures and it's BYB's that are the ones that call them designer dogs for the money am I not right? I see it on many websites and that goes for teacups and rare chocolates ect....YTCA does not promote those dogs as it's not the yorkie standard and that is what the YTCA promotes....

yorkiegirl2 09-05-2010 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 3261857)

To dislike the dog is one thing but for YTCA to state Yorkshire Terrier does have a gene that produces the Parti color is a lie and deceiving the public.
Meant to say YTCA to state Yorkshire Terrier does NOT have a gene that produces the Parti color is a lie and deceiving the public

Breezeaway 09-05-2010 11:22 AM
But the YTCA boasts this on their website and should not be posted as such pointing directly to the partis. Why are they not pointing to the BYB/puppymills that posts on puppyfind or other sites that are selling so called teacups for $8500.00?

"Parti-Color Yorkshire Terriers?
Do not be fooled into buying one of these dogs.
Now that Designer Dogs are the rage, the “new” Parti-Color Yorkie is certain to draw attention. While we have had problems in the past with “rare gold” Yorkshire Terriers being advertised, the parti-color is a new one! While some breeds have an occasional mismark and some breeds do have a gene for a white dog, we do not. Had there been a problem with white markings, piebald dogs, or white dogs, it would have been addressed in our Standard. Due to unscrupulous breeders advertising parti-colored Yorkshire Terriers at premium prices, our members voted unanimously at our annual meeting to add a disqualification for these and other off colored dogs."

Brooklynn 09-05-2010 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3261866)
But the YTCA boasts this on their website and should not be posted as such pointing directly to the partis. Why are they not pointing to the BYB/puppymills that posts on puppyfind or other sites that are selling so called teacups for $8500.00?

"Parti-Color Yorkshire Terriers?
Do not be fooled into buying one of these dogs.
Now that Designer Dogs are the rage, the “new” Parti-Color Yorkie is certain to draw attention. While we have had problems in the past with “rare gold” Yorkshire Terriers being advertised, the parti-color is a new one! While some breeds have an occasional mismark and some breeds do have a gene for a white dog, we do not. Had there been a problem with white markings, piebald dogs, or white dogs, it would have been addressed in our Standard. Due to unscrupulous breeders advertising parti-colored Yorkshire Terriers at premium prices, our members voted unanimously at our annual meeting to add a disqualification for these and other off colored dogs."
Because Parti's and the other colors are not in our breed standard plain and simple and there are those that are promoting it as a designer dog and by unscrupulous breeders....now I've never said anyone on YT is uncrupulous but here you all are saying YTCA is the bad guy...maybe you guys need to start hitting those that are giving you guys a bad name by calling them designer dogs you think?

Brooklynn 09-05-2010 11:32 AM
YTCA can't control the entire US population and what they do or sell or advertise or ask in price but what the YTCA can do is control the breed standard and that is exactly what they are doing by adding the DQ for the breed and that is to protect it! I'm sorry it's not what you want to hear and what you want to happen but that's the way it is. I will always stand behind the breed standard and adhere to the code of ethics and stand behind my convictions.

yorkiegirl2 09-05-2010 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3261861)
I, for one, do not dislike any dog as they are G-d's creatures and it's BYB's that are the ones that call them designer dogs for the money am I not right? I see it on many websites and that goes for teacups and rare chocolates ect....YTCA does not promote those dogs as it's not the yorkie standard and that is what the YTCA promotes....
You know as well as I know breeders have no control over how other breeders advertizes their dogs.
And if someone sells dogs at a certain price and someone is willing to pay the price that is between the seller and buyer.

It is no different when someone uses Ch to sell dogs.

Ch sired for this price and Ch grand sired at that price
or
Someone selling show potential for this price or pet for that price.
When show potential most often then not winds up being just pet quailty.

Brooklynn 09-05-2010 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 3261879)
You know as well as I know breeders have no control over how other breeders advertizes their dogs.
And if someone sells dogs at a certain price and someone is willing to pay the price that is between the seller and buyer.

It is no different when someone uses Ch to sell dogs.

Ch sired for this price and Ch grand sired at that price
or
Someone selling show potential for this price or pet for that price.
When show potential most often then not winds up being just pet quailty.
you're right breeders can't and neither can YTCA but what they can do and have done is protect the breed standard by adding the DQ. YTCA aren't the bad guys here, they are doing what is best for the breed.

kpstoybox 09-05-2010 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3261868)
Because Parti's and the other colors are not in our breed standard plain and simple and there are those that are promoting it as a designer dog and by unscrupulous breeders....now I've never said anyone on YT is uncrupulous but here you all are saying YTCA is the bad guy...maybe you guys need to start hitting those that are giving you guys a bad name by calling them designer dogs you think?
The only one calling them a designer dog is Carl Yochum and the YTCA!

Maybe we should forward him that pedigree just posted. Now that there is DNA proof that some dogs from his own club members have produced parti's...maybe it will get him to publically retract his slanderous statements concerning the parti and those that produce them.

kpstoybox 09-05-2010 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3261853)
I'm not reaching and I'm sure both breeders would have spayed and neutered if it were known a Parti was being produced....just like with any bad and undesired trait it would have been spayed and neutered and placed as a pet as that is what I would do in my breeding program and knowing Ann and knowing Betty Ann they would do the same...
I wonder how many more parti's were produced by these lines...and then just dissappeared?

The only reason we know of this litter is the owner of the dam wouldn't let them disappear.

bjh 09-05-2010 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3261783)
What those of you who insist that there was another breed accidently mixed in, fail to remember, is that the parti color was only showing up in the show lines.

Lines from very reputable exhibitor/breeders, those who only bred yorkies, those who did not risk accidental breedings, those who would not buy breeding stock from the byb.

They were in the Wildweir lines, the Nikko lines, the Durrer lines and many more. I doubt that any of those breeders would have risked an accidental breeding.
Over the years I have had dogs with those lines in them but I have never produced a parti. Some people think that years ago, because many of the show exhibitors were importing dogs, that is how the parti got started. It is really hard after all these years for one to sort out fact from fiction.

I have raised yorkies for 14 years and none of my dogs were ever dna'ed until AKC started the frequently used sire program. Since the AKC has started collecting dna on the frequently used sires I figure people are being much more careful. Even so, the breeders that only produce a couple of litters a year might never have to send in dna on any of their dogs, especially if they retire their male before he produces 7 litters and they don't use him more than three times in a year.

Brooklynn 09-05-2010 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3261889)
The only one calling them a designer dog is Carl Yochum and the YTCA!

Maybe we should forward him that pedigree just posted. Now that there is DNA proof that some dogs from his own club members have produced parti's...maybe it will get him to publically retract his slanderous statements concerning the parti and those that produce them.
If that is what you want to do I'm sure you can call or email. :)

Brooklynn 09-05-2010 12:18 PM
[QUOTE=kpstoybox;3261890]I wonder how many more parti's were produced by these lines...and then just dissappeared?

The only reason we know of this litter is the owner of the dam wouldn't let them disappear.[/QUOTE

Yup I guess that the dam owner is very happy to be producing Parti's, that was the goal to obtain CH lines....

I would have spayed and neutered and placed into a pet home to stop the undesirable trait of the Parti so yeah I guess it would disappear from me too...

yorkiekist 09-05-2010 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 3261857)
Yes, I think this is the whole point it does happen, these are not just colored designer dogs that were produced by BYB as some like to state.
These dogs came out of showdogs.

To dislike the dog is one thing but for YTCA to state Yorkshire Terrier does have a gene that produces the Parti color is a lie and deceiving the public.
And you dont think you wont be decieving the public, the judges and the other reputable exhibitors when you parade your carriers around the ring?It speaks volumes that a breeder will show a dog KNOWING that it carries a severe fault in the breed standard.

yorkiekist 09-05-2010 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3261788)
What right do any of you have to sit here and degrade us as humans just because we have Parti colored dogs. I find it a shame that YT lets this go on over and over again. That you can sit on here and call all parti breeders BYB, not reputable, being in it just for money, speaking out of both sides of the mouth(what kind of comment is that?)
You can sure dish it out. Guess you can take it though. I dont think anyone called You personally a byber. And no where on here did anyone degrade you/parti breeders as a human being/beings.

Brooklynn 09-05-2010 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 3261895)
And you dont think you wont be decieving the public, the judges and the other reputable exhibitors when you parade your carriers around the ring?It speaks volumes that a breeder will show a dog KNOWING that it carries a severe fault in the breed standard.
And we are called cheaters....Hmmmm :)

Chkpups 09-05-2010 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 3261485)
What are the lines in your friends dogs ?
Not sure but I am going to find out and will let you know.

yorkiekist 09-05-2010 12:28 PM
[quote=mardelin;3261790]"we" are you pregnant?[/quo

LOL!!!

kpstoybox 09-05-2010 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3261899)
And we are called cheaters....Hmmmm :)
Ok...since no one could answer the question truthfully with facts on how adding a variety class would effect the blue and tan standard...lets try an easier question.

Just how would showing a well bred, correctly colored blue and tan yorkie...that meets the standard in every way...be cheating?

Brooklynn 09-05-2010 12:32 PM
This will be my last post on this thread because I think the point has been made over and over again who stands behind the standard of the Yorkshire Terrier and who doesn't.
I hope newbies will read the entire thread and get something educational out of it. Either you want a standard yorkie for show or a parti yorkie as a pet and what is and is not accepted by the YTCA for showing and breeding purposes for an AKC conformation event. YTCA is here to protect the purebred Yorkshire Terrier and I and many others are here to uphold the code of ethics and conduct whether members of the YTCA or not.
Only you as a newbie can make your choice. Remember to research and research. Not only for color and the standard but health of being the #1 priority! Choose your breeder wisely!

Donna

bjh 09-05-2010 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3261890)
I wonder how many more parti's were produced by these lines...and then just dissappeared?

The only reason we know of this litter is the owner of the dam wouldn't let them disappear.
It is my understanding that the sire's owner asked that these pups be petted out. To me it is wrong and unethical for the breeder of these pups to sell them with full registration against the wishes of the sires owner. This is why it is necessary for anyone that studs out their dog to have a very strict contract to prevent things like this from happening.

As for the pedigree of these pups, there are many dogs on the sires side and the dams side that were never dna'ed so we will never know that might have been behind those dogs.

Brooklynn 09-05-2010 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3261906)
Ok...since no one could answer the question truthfully with facts on how adding a variety class would effect the blue and tan standard...lets try an easier question.

Just how would showing a well bred, correctly colored blue and tan yorkie...that meets the standard in every way...be cheating?
Ok last post now LOL...you knowingly taking in a Parti Carrier and going to breed for Parti's what would you call that? It goes against the code of conduct and ethics even if your not a member of the YTCA....it's called ethics in every way possible....

Donna

yorkiekist 09-05-2010 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom (Post 3261796)
I wouldn't call you any of the above except that you have to be loving the inflated prices that you're getting for parti colors! But that too shall come to an end. All I would say is that in your futile attempt to legitimize parti color yorkies you're doing untold harm to the breed. And for that alone I have no respect for anyone involved in breeding parti colored yorkies. Whether this all started with a accidental breeding at the Streamglen Kennel in the UK many years ago or whether people have just cleverly mixed breeds to get the white patches on the sides, legs and head, we'll never know. Way too much time has passed for DNA or Mars testing to prove anything. But in the future all YTCA can do is damage control and hope to preserve the integrity of the breed.
:thumbup::yeahthat: Excellent post!!


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