Count me in with the clueless then, Steve!

Although at one time I would have agreed with you, I no longer do. My Razz is a parti yorkie and his breeder, IMO is not a byb, but is very caring, loving and dedicated to her choice of color, not unlike many standard color yorkie breeders. She is not breeding to make lots of $$ unlike some of the "accepted" reputable standard color yorkie breeders. I think you have to know the individual, and their motives for breeding before you throw them in the same pot as all byb's or accept them as reputable breeders.

[QUOTE=shodanusmc;3259414]I have no problem with Parti's, and they would make nice pets. Just not to be shown or bred. If one comes from a litter, place it in a pet home, and no more breeding for the parents. Even the cane Corso has color standards that can be shown. Only BYB's would accept an off color, and the clueless would buy one.[/QUOTE]

:eek:

Really? Two very well respected and knowledgeable members here at YT recently purchased parti yorkies..and neither one is clueless concerning the parti. Far from it!
Maybe you are the one that is clueless for making such an ignorant statement.

The purpose of purebred breeding is not to introduce new variety into the breed, but elimination of the variety. Mutts have lots of variety, purebreds don't. Past breeders have worked very hard to eliminate what they saw as undesirable qualities. The parti recessive gene wasn't found in most lines, in fact, it seems like it can be traced to just a few, and there are still questions on how it got there, but the founders of the YTCA decided that is not what they wanted to breed for. Whether it was a natural ingredient to the original yorkie isn't the point, early breeders decided that this shouldn't be included in the coat type. You have to remember that the yorkie coat is one of the most difficult to obtain, for those who like a challenge, the yorkie is a fascinating breed to breed, because just because you have two blue and gold yorkies, it's doesn't mean you will always get two and blue and gold yorkies, but this is the goal. Now if almost every breeder could achieve getting the proper blue and gold, time after time, I would see no problem with adding more variety into the line, but this coat is still very difficult to achieve. Adding the white often eliminates the blue, and I can understand why breeders would be hesitant to add this. Many breeders believe that instead of adding more variety to the yorkie, that other things should be stressed, structure/health/temperament and things of this nature. The yorkie is a relatively young breed, it like designing a fine piece of equipment you want to get the prototype right before you start offering it in more and more colors. Also, once you get the recessive gene in a line, how do you take it out, if you decide the white isn't for you? It's impossible; the white is easily added, but impossible to thoroughly eliminate because there are no tests that show if your dog is a carrier. It's a free country and breeders are free to breed whatever they see fit, and people are free to choose which breeders they feel like supporting, however, supporting breeders who breed to standard, is the best way to support the breed, for you are helping to insure a yorkie who looks like a yorkie, will be around in the future.

By the way, culling doesn't always mean killing, it means simply not breeding some of the offspring, it selective breeding. Every breeder culls their dogs when they sell a dog as a pet.

Wow??? WHO are you and WHERE did YOU come from? What a rude comment!!! How can you accuse breeders of being a BYB without even know thing them? And then to call someone clueless for buying one? Wow - I have seen many members on here post that they have purchased a Parti Yorkies, gosh even one of our wonderful mods here just recently bought one! Hmmm so you are calling HER clueless and her BREEDER a BYB. Nice:thumbdown

Steve, from the Chicago area.

To answer your question, I know Anne Wylie (Hylan Acres) and she does not breed parti yorkies. Anne made the mistake, as others have, in trusting someone with her lines and that person produced the parti pups. Anne would never suggest putting down a off colored puppy. She would pet them out.

My personally feelings are that I am very skeptical about the origin of the parti yorkie. I feel that somewhere along the way the Maltese has been mixed in or some other breed. I don't know how anyone can prove any difference. There are ways breeders can cheat the system.

If someone wants to breed parti yorkies then that is their business but to try to force the YTCA to accept them, in my opinion, it is not right. If someone wants to show a parti then why not get a Biewer (everyone claims they are parti yorkies). Perhaps one day the Biewer will be accept by AKC.

So you are saying that Joan Gordon and Janet Bennetts Wildweir Kennel had maltese in them? Wow.

Totally agree. If you want one, get one, just do not plan on it being AKC registered for show. Heck, I love all dogs, even mutts. Then again, I do not sell them.

and why are they so expensive? Are they better pets than the standard color?

I have no idea what dogs they had in their kennels or where their dogs came from. I have seen morkies and shorkies that look like parti yorkies. How can we trust that all the parti yorkies that are being produced today are not mixed with something else? It's just my opinion.

Wildweir had a Parti pup born in 1976 from there CH dogs.
Same can be said : I have seen morkies and shorkies that look like yorkies. How can we trust that all the yorkies that are being produced today are not mixed with something else?

Breeds are a manmade thing based on how dog looks and behaves. Humans decide how any particular breed should look, and behave. Individual breeders sometimes have preferences, but breeding should not be done to suit an individual creative distinctiveness, there are better hobbies in which to do this that don't have an impact on animal life. Of course, most hobbies don't earn money. I see no difference between someone breeding out of standard than I do with mixed breeding. There's nothing inherently wrong with either, but we already have enough pets to supply the county many times over. Breeding should only be done to preserve the breed.

How was it ever proven that something was not mixed in with their dogs? How many generations did they dna? How do we know they dna'ed the right dogs. We just don't really know. Do all the parti yorkies being bred today go back to that kennel?

Yes, you are right. There are unethical breeders that mix other breeds with their yorkies and sell them as full blooded. That is why knowing and trusting your breeder is very important. A pet yorkie does not demand a high price but add a little white to that pet yorkie, call it a parti and it seems people can get a lot more money. There are a lot people out there that breed only for money and not for the betterment of the breed and not for the welfare of the dogs.

Do you know who Joan Gordon is? I doubt her and her sister let another breed get into their line. But thats JMO

Now THAT is the question I have long had. Seems to me that many people are not breeding these dogs for anything but the bottom line. The tags are outlandish and for the life of me when I look at some of these pictures, I totally do not get it. But..hey...that's me.

Price? It's an honest question. No one can seem to answer it other than to say they can get the money! I have not seen show breeders that breed to the standard and for the betterment of the bredd get as defensive as several parti here. I have nothing against them going to a nice pet home. Guess some people just have a lot of money to spend, same as the tiniest of the tiny. But what do I know, I just hunt hogs and love dogs!

Got any pictures of Trifecta?

Joan is going to send me pictures of Wildweir Triplicate when she can get someone to get them off of the top of the bookcase since she cant reach it after her fall.

Oops, sorry I got the name wrong.:( It would be interesting to see, if she sends it.

If anyone is interested in the history of the parti yorkie, all one has to do is do a google search for 'history of the parti yorkie'. I see many parti breeders have posted their explanation on how the parti came about and but this is the one I found the most interesting and most logical:
Top Parti Yorkies Genetics Parti Yorkie Parti Color Yorkshire Terrier and Biewer Yorkies

:thumbup:She should know. Been around for a long time.

I called and got the info concering the Hylan carrier dogs.
The lady who owned Hylan Darling Diva bought the dog from Hylan‘s.
She took the dog back to Hylan’s to be bred to Hylan Ridin the Storm.
Since she bought the dog for breeding to produce show pups she was pretty upset when the female whelped 7 pups - 2 of which were Parti’s.
There was a dispute between the parties and AKC did DNA testing on
Riding the storm, Darling Diva and all 7 pup before they were registered.
And Yes, Hylan did tell the lady who owned the litter to put down the Parti pups.
2 of the Parti carriers in that litter
Hylan Diva's Remington Blue Steel and Hylan Diva's Dannilyn Has it All
were bought by Debra Cart.

This information is outdated, biased and quite frankly...old school. She is only offering her personal beliefs. Nothing which she has proven fact. Where is the proof of what she says? Why is her info so believable when all she does is assume a mix is behind the parti's existence? Beliefs by assumption..doesn't make it true...no matter what side of the fence you are on.

I believe in FACTS...not opinions. If those with an open mind want REAL facts...Debbie (Lowood Farms) has proof of her research...by tracing pedigree's and talking personally with those who have 1st hand knowledge of parti's being born in lines other then BYB lines. She has used her own money and time for this...and still continues to find more and more documentation to back up her claims concerning the parti and the Biewer.

Parti Yorkshire Terrier - Snow Blue Yorkshire Terriers

Biewers are just an unregistered version of the AKC registered Parti Yorkie.
Why give up on a tri yorkie that is already AKC reg...just to start over with an un-reg tri yorkie. That is going backwards if you ask me. How does that make sense? Just to be able to show in rare breed clubs? The AKC parti can already do that and is already AKC reg. IMO..the Biewer will not get AKC registration, as it can be traced to the same lines as the parti, and are out of pure Yorkshire Terrier foundation.

Hopefully the UKC accepts the parti yorkie soon (like it has the parti poodle) and we can show are dogs there. And we will continue to show our carriers with AKC until hell freezes over. ;)

Your last quote is why it is very hard now to get a great show dog, even for people that what to breed the correct way(to the standard). The last thing most reputable breeders want is for their show stock to end up in parti breeders hands. Why would you feel the need to champion one of your parti carriers anyway?? Bragging rights perhaps? It will still do you no good. Partis will not be able to be shown, you will not be accepted into the YTCA(I am sure that doesnt matter to you) and you are not breeding to the standard of the breed. So whats the point? Except bragging rights.
Just wondering.:confused:

So help me understand, the person who's female whelped 7 pups of which 2 were partis was upset about it because she was trying to produce show pups. Then why in the world would she sell the pups with full registration to breeders knowing that the bloodline contained a major fault? This is just another example of a breeder getting their hands on some nice champion sired puppies and not caring what they do with the pups or how it can hurt the reputation of the sire's owner. This just proves that a very strict contract is needed when selling or breeding dogs unless you just don't care who's hands your lines get into.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Those who produced the yorkies in the first place did it to produce a better dog for their purposes, not to win acceptance in a show ring.

Most of the parti breeders, that I know, are trying to breed for partis that meet the standard in everything except for color. Since we are not starting out with champion dogs, our job is a little more difficult.

I have stayed out of the parti debate because I think it all boils down to opinions. I know that AKC did not require dna testing of dogs years ago. A pedigree proves nothing unless all the dogs were dna'ed and even then breeders that collect and mail in their dogs dna can cheat.

Lol, I know many years ago before the government required all children to have social security numbers, there was a lady that claimed her dogs as dependents. I also know of breeders that would get extra puppy registration papers and use those papers to register dogs they bought that did not have papers. There have always been cheaters around.

If the YTCA changed the standard to allow parti yorkies then what about all the other coat colors? I have seen some beautiful black yorkies but does that mean they should be allowed in the show ring? I just prefer to leave the standard the way it is. Just my opinion.

The same reason you show your dogs. If my carrier is nice enough to beat your dog in the ring...then I am on the right track with my breeding program.

As far as "bragging rights" is concerned. You guys do it all the time. I see brag threads and everyone is happy for the one who is bragging. You can bet your last dollar that when I do finish a carrier (and I will) I will be here to brag about it.

And that statement goes for all Yorkies, you cant just pick a color and say that about one color. It goes for all dogs. they didnt DNA any dogs back in the day, so how do you know your pedigrees are 100% accurate from 20 years ago? So that point really doesnt carry much water does it?