Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3260011)

The same reason you show your dogs. If my carrier is nice enough to beat your dog in the ring...then I am on the right track with my breeding program.

As far as "bragging rights" is concerned. You guys do it all the time. I see brag threads and everyone is happy for the one who is bragging. You can bet your last dollar that when I do finish a carrier (and I will) I will be here to brag about it.

Originally Posted by bjh (Post 3260010)

I have stayed out of the parti debate because I think it all boils down to opinions. I know that AKC did not require dna testing of dogs years ago. A pedigree proves nothing unless all the dogs were dna'ed and even then breeders that collect and mail in their dogs dna can cheat.

Lol, I know many years ago before the government required all children to have social security numbers, there was a lady that claimed her dogs as dependents. I also know of breeders that would get extra puppy registration papers and use those papers to register dogs they bought that did not have papers. There have always been cheaters around.

If the YTCA changed the standard to allow parti yorkies then what about all the other coat colors? I have seen some beautiful black yorkies but does that mean they should be allowed in the show ring? I just prefer to leave the standard the way it is. Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by bjh (Post 3260010)

I have stayed out of the parti debate because I think it all boils down to opinions. I know that AKC did not require dna testing of dogs years ago. A pedigree proves nothing unless all the dogs were dna'ed and even then breeders that collect and mail in their dogs dna can cheat.

Lol, I know many years ago before the government required all children to have social security numbers, there was a lady that claimed her dogs as dependents. I also know of breeders that would get extra puppy registration papers and use those papers to register dogs they bought that did not have papers. There have always been cheaters around.

If the YTCA changed the standard to allow parti yorkies then what about all the other coat colors? I have seen some beautiful black yorkies but does that mean they should be allowed in the show ring? I just prefer to leave the standard the way it is. Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3260024)

Everyone keeps saying this...yet no one will back it up with how it would be changed. These statements are only misleading people into assuming that if the parti were allowed a variety class...they would have to change the standard of the blue and tan yorkie. This is simply not true. Why must people continue to spread false information? Please explain to me how it would change the standard of the traditional blue and tan Yorkie in the ring today?
The YTCA does not have to change a thing. They would only have to add a variety class. Once again..this means the blue and tan and the parti would show in different rings. They would only meet in group. How would this affect the standard of the blue and gold?
This fight has nothing to with changing the standard..and all to do with acceptance. Something the YTCA obviously will not allow because of old school beliefs and fear of change.

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 3260020)

I guess the difference is that I am/we are breeding to the standard of the breed and you are breeding color faults. And you will be using "champions carriers" that cant produce correctly either. Just because the dog is a "champion" that doesnt mean he/she can produce quality.
As for bragging rights, I love to brag about my guys when they do good in the ring, that wasnt the point. What I mean by bragging rights is there will be lots of braggin going on with the acquisation of the coveted "champion" and his champion bloodline that you had nothing to do in creating.
So its just a circle. I dont see the point in showing carriers. Whats the point if you cant produce correct puppies? Except for a selling/bragging point.
Thats what I dont understand.

Originally Posted by bjh (Post 3260010)

I have stayed out of the parti debate because I think it all boils down to opinions. I know that AKC did not require dna testing of dogs years ago. A pedigree proves nothing unless all the dogs were dna'ed and even then breeders that collect and mail in their dogs dna can cheat.

Lol, I know many years ago before the government required all children to have social security numbers, there was a lady that claimed her dogs as dependents. I also know of breeders that would get extra puppy registration papers and use those papers to register dogs they bought that did not have papers. There have always been cheaters around.

If the YTCA changed the standard to allow parti yorkies then what about all the other coat colors? I have seen some beautiful black yorkies but does that mean they should be allowed in the show ring? I just prefer to leave the standard the way it is. Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3260038)

Why couldn't a carrier produce correct puppies? If he is the correct color and produces the correct color...then what's your problem? Besides..those of us who are serious about our parti's need to have show quality carriers to produce our parti's when/if/hopefully the UKC accepts the parti as a variety. We will need a quality dog to step into the ring with when we are finally allowed too.

Your darn right I'm gonna brag about any accomplishments I make with my dogs. You keep alluding to the fact that I only want Ch sired parti's to sell my puppies. Is that why you show your dogs? Then please don't assume why I want to show mine.

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3260037)

The Chinese Crested varitey does not show in seperate rings, they show in the same ring, nor does the the Chi's aka long coat and short coat. And as I've stated before the AKC isn't allowing a parent club to add a variety at this time if I'm correct.
The YTCA is not going to allow the variety plain and simple. It's not gonna happen, it's not going to be accepted anytime in the near future.

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3260059)

Oh it will happen.. Once the parti is developed into show quality, correct in every way, except color, some fancier with lots of clout and $$$ will decide they want to show them and they will make it happen.

And THAT is why the YTCA is so against them. They know it is going to happen once they get some champion carriers.

if you breed two champion carriers together, chances are, the resulting puppies will be excellent quality.

I think the partis probably started out at good quality, but without others to breed to, they have declined. I have seen quality decline in the last 3 years.

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3260018)

And that statement goes for all Yorkies, you cant just pick a color and say that about one color. It goes for all dogs. they didnt DNA any dogs back in the day, so how do you know your pedigrees are 100% accurate from 20 years ago? So that point really doesnt carry much water does it?

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3260063)

There's that dollar sign again...Hmmm it all seems to be about money...Wont happen as the DQ is gonna get a little more stricter. Please keep talking about the Parti's love hearing about them and what the plans are :)

Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 3260073)

AKC hasn't accepted a new variety for 50 years.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3259634)

The purpose of purebred breeding is not to introduce new variety into the breed, but elimination of the variety. Mutts have lots of variety, purebreds don't. Past breeders have worked very hard to eliminate what they saw as undesirable qualities. The parti recessive gene wasn't found in most lines, in fact, it seems like it can be traced to just a few, and there are still questions on how it got there, but the founders of the YTCA decided that is not what they wanted to breed for. Whether it was a natural ingredient to the original yorkie isn't the point, early breeders decided that this shouldn't be included in the coat type. You have to remember that the yorkie coat is one of the most difficult to obtain, for those who like a challenge, the yorkie is a fascinating breed to breed, because just because you have two blue and gold yorkies, it's doesn't mean you will always get two and blue and gold yorkies, but this is the goal. Now if almost every breeder could achieve getting the proper blue and gold, time after time, I would see no problem with adding more variety into the line, but this coat is still very difficult to achieve. Adding the white often eliminates the blue, and I can understand why breeders would be hesitant to add this. Many breeders believe that instead of adding more variety to the yorkie, that other things should be stressed, structure/health/temperament and things of this nature. The yorkie is a relatively young breed, it like designing a fine piece of equipment you want to get the prototype right before you start offering it in more and more colors. Also, once you get the recessive gene in a line, how do you take it out, if you decide the white isn't for you? It's impossible; the white is easily added, but impossible to thoroughly eliminate because there are no tests that show if your dog is a carrier. It's a free country and breeders are free to breed whatever they see fit, and people are free to choose which breeders they feel like supporting, however, supporting breeders who breed to standard, is the best way to support the breed, for you are helping to insure a yorkie who looks like a yorkie, will be around in the future.

By the way, culling doesn't always mean killing, it means simply not breeding some of the offspring, it selective breeding. Every breeder culls their dogs when they sell a dog as a pet.

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3260027)

Barbara don't worry the standard isn't going to change to allow Parti's in the ring. Let those brag about their carriers in the ring and even champion them if it makes them happy but know it won't get any warm welcomes within the yorkie show world well except those who don't care about the breed standard...JMO We'll just continue to try and educate those that want to learn and learn the right way :)

Originally Posted by Breny (Post 3260096)

Hey! What happened to the OP??? :D

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3260091)

YUP $$$$ That is all it will take.

What the plans are is no secret, never has been, it's just now that people are getting worried they are starting to listen.

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3260056)

If one thinks some of the Parti threads on YT gets one's dander up and I'm not talking standard yorkie breeders wait till you enter the wonderful world of showing...it's more brutal LOL...If I see those that are proudly and announcing Parti carriers in the ring remember keep your temper in check LOL

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3260037)

The Chinese Crested varitey does not show in seperate rings, they show in the same ring, nor does the the Chi's aka long coat and short coat. And as I've stated before the AKC isn't allowing a parent club to add a variety at this time if I'm correct.
The YTCA is not going to allow the variety plain and simple. It's not gonna happen, it's not going to be accepted anytime in the near future.

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3260101)

Oh, are they poor sports? Good thing those brave people are used to the name cyalling, mud slinging and bullying. It will make the victory all the sweeter.

Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 3260073)

AKC hasn't accepted a new variety for 50 years.

Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3260130)

Oh..you don't have to tell me how brutal show people can be. I have seen it with my own two eyes. Funny...you say that like you are proud of it.

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3260133)

Can you show me where on the AKC site that it says that about the variety???

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3260119)

See that's the problem, it's about the almighty dollar and not the dog...it's a shame really...

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3260142)

Oh I've been on the receiving end of it LOL...and some just can't handle me being blunt either and have taken it was "brutal". I always say you better have tough skin to be in the show world. I'm professional when I need be but I can be very outspoken as well and have very strong opinions and be very opinionated that is often taken as being brutal oh well...can't handle the truth don't ask is what I always say.

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3260145)

To be honest I read it about 6 months ago and haven't researched it. Maybe you can do an AKC search on their site.

Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3260099)

I agree with much of what Nancy said, particularly the parts I put in bold. You could take all the arguments from the Parti breeders and insert the fault of your choice (oversize, wiry coat, flop ears,. etc.) instead of the word 'parti' and the true weight of the argument becomes apparent. No one is beating on the door of the YTCA to create a variety and allow these faults into the ring. Why not? These traits are all naturally occuring in the breed and have been there from the beginning and still pop up to this day on a regular basis.

My own opinion is that the Yorkie is a relatively young breed and is still difficult to breed true to type. Regardless of their origin, it makes no sense to introduce back into the gene pool traits that will only muddy the water and make it even more difficult to breed true to type. It shouldn't make a difference if a trait has fanciers or not.

People are free to breed what they wish to, but I'd like to know how is it bettering the breed? To me, a Yorkshire Terrier is a blue and tan (gold), silky coated terrier...period. It has always been the intention since the founding of the breed for the Yorkie to be just that, regardless of other traits that have shown up.
There are some beautiful partis, but there are also beautiful Yorkies that exhibit other faults. Until the Yorkie can, in most cases, breed true to type, introducing varieties/faults back into them can only be seen as detrimental to the breed.

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3260138)

What exactly do you mean? A variety of the color or a variety of the breed?