Parti Color? YTCA?

[Elle]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

Do you show your own show prospects or do you hire a handler? If you hire a handler most are experts at coloring coat.

I never stated one time I did not have a good experience while I was showing my yorkies! What gave me a sour taste as far as showing was all the enhancing which goes on with showing dogs. It is very devasting to grow out your show prospect, which is an absolutely perfect specimen of the breed only to be told by a few ytca members to color the coat because it is to light! At one time I had only the upmost respect and admiration for ytca members and I believed in their beliefs. It is hard to believe in people after you find out the standard only benefits them when it needs to.

Yes handlers do things to win. Go whine to AKC. Why don't you tell them it's not fair? Why do people whine about things they don't participate in?



Handlers are experts at many things. Especially handling. They are hard to beat. If you think it's because of a bottle of dye, think again.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Or, as has been said before, the right handler could finish a dead cat.

I agree that the show world has problems of its own and is more of a beauty pageant than a venue for evaluating breeding stock. Below is a bit copied from the Polish Kennel Club's (an FCI member) regulations. It seems to me a better approach to judging dogs than what is in place in America.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"9. In the shows only healthy dogs can be showed, having a vet health certificate. Bitches who are pregnant or are in heat may not take part in the shows.


10. Dog shows are accessible for the public, and the organizers are allowed to take entrance fees. (What they usually do. Despite of this the public comes sometimes in big numbers)


II. Rules of the Dog Shows organization

Dogs may take part only in the following classes:


a) Puppy class - age 6 to 9 months (does not count toward championship)

b) Junior class – age 9 to 18 months (does count toward junior championship only)

c) Intermediate class – age 15 to 24 months

d) Open class – age above 15 months

e) Working class – age above 15 months, with a Working Dog Certificate organized for breeds, for which work tests are needed (including Golden Retrievers) The certificate of Working Dog is given to:

- defense dogs - with at least IPO I diploma

- hunting dogs - with at least III grade diploma on contests

f) Champion class - for dogs who have the diploma of an international champion or a national champion of Poland or from a different dog registry organization accepted by FCI

g) Veteran class – age above 8 years (does not count toward championship)


III. Rules of Judgment of Dogs in Shows


In the dog show the function of the judge may only be taken by a judge certified by the general management of the Polish Kennel Club or judges invited from different countries accepted by FCI, chosen from the list of international judges. On international dog shows only international judges from organizations accepted by FCI may judge.

12. & 13. While judging a dog the judge should take into consideration inherent flaws and those that were caught, physical and psychic health. The qualifications given by the judges may be one of the following definitions:

EXCELLENT may only be awarded to a dog which comes very close to the ideal standard of the breed, which is presented in excellent condition, displays a harmonious, well-balanced temperament, is of high class and has excellent posture. Its superior characteristics in respect of its breed permit that minor imperfections can be ignored; it must however have the typical features of its sex.

VERY GOOD may only be awarded to a dog which possesses the typical features of its breed, which has well-balanced proportions and is in correct condition. A few minor faults may be tolerated but none of a morphological nature. This award can only be granted to a dog that shows class.

GOOD is to be awarded to a dog that possesses the main features of its breed however showing faults provided these are not concealed.

SUFFICIENT must be awarded to a dog which corresponds adequately to its breed, without possessing the generally accepted characteristics or whose physical condition leaves something to be desired.
DISQUALIFIED must be awarded to a dog which does not correspond to the type required by the breed standard; which shows a behavior clearly not in line with its standard or which behaves aggressively; which has testicular abnormalities; which has dental flaw or a jaw anomaly; which shows a color and/or coat imperfection or clearly shows signs of albinism. This qualification shall also be awarded to dogs that correspond so little to a single feature of the breed that their health is threatened. It should furthermore be awarded to dogs that show eliminating faults in regard to the breed standard.

Dogs that cannot be awarded one of the above qualifications shall be released from the ring with the rating:

CANNOT BE JUDGED. This rating is to be given to any dog which does not move, constantly jumps up and down on its handler or tries to get out of the ring, makes it impossible to assess the gait and the movement or avoids constantly to be examined by the judge and makes it impossible to inspect teeth, anatomy and structure, tail or testicles. This rating is also to be given if traces of operations or treatment can be observed which seem to indicate that the exhibitor wanted to deceive the judge. The same applies if the judge has ample reason to suspect operations that were intended to correct the original condition or feature (e.g.: eyelid, ear or tail). The reason why the dog was rated CANNOT BE JUDGED has to be stated in the judge’s report.

The four best dogs in each class are placed provided that they have been awarded at least the qualification “Very Good”."

From this link... Polish Kennel Club and FCI Regulations

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Of course, partis would be disqualified under these rules also, due to the breed standard. But, since so much is being said about showing, I think it's interesting to see how much of the rest of the world goes about it.

I love that wording.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Elle

Yes handlers do things to win. Go whine to AKC. Why don't you tell them it's not fair? Why do people whine about things they don't participate in?



Handlers are experts at many things. Especially handling. They are hard to beat. If you think it's because of a bottle of dye, think again.

If they are dying, they are cheating, if you have to cheat to win, you're not a winner.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

IFyou read the whole thread I have not one time attacked or said anything bad to or about a YTCA member or said anything about cheating, or lying breeders.

Don't let her get to you, she is the master of twisting what one says. She will lead you off topic and keep you on the defensive and eventually you'll be wondering why the heck you are arguing about something that has nothing to do with the thread.

It is not worth the time it takes for you to reply.

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

What is also very sad is with all the priming and coddling of the dogs, they are losing the true terrier instinct which is one of the most important aspect of the dogs.

I agree proper testing health testing should be done in order for one to be allow to show.
And it should entail the overall health of the dog along with health testing with as least a clear bile acid test.
Because what is the sense in Championing a beauty dog a genetic defects.
This defeats the purpose of breeding sound stock.

DNA should also be taken at shows in order to make sure points are being placed on the correct dogs.
Because if one has no problem dying coats what would keep someone from showing a correct dog to get points on another dog who they want Championed but does not meet the standard.

Years ago we owned a welsh terrier, so I'm aware of a "true" terrier and their personality. Your comment about yorkies losing their terrier instinct is spot on. I have 3 yorkies, one a puppymill girl, one a ch sired exhibitor breeder's pup, and finally Razz my parti yorkie. Of all 3 dogs Razz has that true tenacious terrier personality, followed by my little puppymill girl and lastly Reno.

And....finally....ELLE....I don't know who you are and quite frankly it doesn't matter to me, but you are either very naive, gullible or being less than honest. LOLOLOL....it IS often the best of the best that are dyeing their dogs. LOLOL....it is the best of the best buying up cases of hair dye and shipping it to show friends, it is the best of the best that have their own special hair dye blends that are kept secret.....AND.....I'm sure that it would be the best of the best that would recommend to others to dye their dogs.....after all, that is how the best of the best often times wins!!!LOLOLOL.....Also, if you think handlers are always winning because of their handling abilities...you need to think again...ROTFLMAO!!!


You know I don't give one hoot whether or not dogs get dyed....I just expect those that preach integrity, reputable breeding etc. to hold themselves to that very same standard, and not be such hypocrites.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

We used to put Shoe Polish on the Horses Hoofs prior to a sale or showing. Is that cheating? Anyone here dye their hair? Than again, everyone knows what a normal hoof looks like. same as braiding the mane and tail. That does not happen on its own.

Follow the standard, the standard, the standard. All about the money!

Have a great Holiday!

If they have to dye their dogs to get them to finish, then they do not have champion dogs. It's all a sham.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by jencar98

Thank you Jim for posting what I've thought for some time and exactly what I told my friend when she and I were discussing dyeing dogs. Showing dogs too often has become a beauty and/or popularity/familiarity contest and not really about the best representative of the breed. If that is what is accepted and expected then so be it, but it does come across as hypocritical to hold others to standards one doesn't them self honor.

Correct, it becomes a contest of the handlers' expertise and not about the dog.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I don't mean to imply that the show world is full of sub-standard dogs, but I think the focus has become skewed towards the 'beauty pageant' aspect of it. As a result, you have people enhancing dogs, hiring well-known handlers and shopping for venues to get points. It's called politics, but it really does seem more like a silly game,

If you looked at the part I copied from the Polish K.C., you'll see that a dog can be judged to be excellent and not win a title. This could happen in a field of very strong competition. While the dog may not 'win', consistent 'excellent' gradings would, in my mind, validate a breeding program. It shouldn't be all about the 'win' at any cost. If a dog can't be shown in it's natural state with good competiton and do well, then that owner is only fooling him/her self.

Unfortunately, the American system is set up for one to have to 'play the game' in order to do well. This is sad as I see it as detrimental to any breed. A cynic could say that championships are questionable under a such a system as ours and that is unfair to the truly great dogs being shown.

One other thing...did you notice that, under the FCI system, a health certificate must be presented before showing any dog?

Very well put.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

This is what I have been saying too.
Showing has become more of a beauty pageant instead of evaluating breeding stock.

Dogs should be shown natural with faults and all and judged accordingly.
Those who meet as close to the standard takes the points.

I don’t care how you look at it, it’s deceiving and cheating if the dog has to be enhanced in order to win.
I’m sure anyone would be P’ed off if you had a true coat color and your beaten by a dog who is dyed.

What is also very sad is with all the priming and coddling of the dogs, they are losing the true terrier instinct which is one of the most important aspect of the dogs.

I agree proper testing health testing should be done in order for one to be allow to show.
And it should entail the overall health of the dog along with health testing with as least a clear bile acid test.
Because what is the sense in Championing a beauty dog a genetic defects.
This defeats the purpose of breeding sound stock.

DNA should also be taken at shows in order to make sure points are being placed on the correct dogs.
Because if one has no problem dying coats what would keep someone from showing a correct dog to get points on another dog who they want Championed but does not meet the standard.

That is a good point and it has probably been done.

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by jencar98

Years ago we owned a welsh terrier, so I'm aware of a "true" terrier and their personality. Your comment about yorkies losing their terrier instinct is spot on. I have 3 yorkies, one a puppymill girl, one a ch sired exhibitor breeder's pup, and finally Razz my parti yorkie. Of all 3 dogs Razz has that true tenacious terrier personality, followed by my little puppymill girl and lastly Reno.

And....finally....ELLE....I don't know who you are and quite frankly it doesn't matter to me, but you are either very naive, gullible or being less than honest. LOLOLOL....it IS often the best of the best that are dyeing their dogs. LOLOL....it is the best of the best buying up cases of hair dye and shipping it to show friends, it is the best of the best that have their own special hair dye blends that are kept secret.....AND.....I'm sure that it would be the best of the best that would recommend to others to dye their dogs.....after all, that is how the best of the best often times wins!!!LOLOLOL.....Also, if you think handlers are always winning because of their handling abilities...you need to think again...ROTFLMAO!!!


You know I don't give one hoot whether or not dogs get dyed....I just expect those that preach integrity, reputable breeding etc. to hold themselves to that very same standard, and not be such hypocrites.

Well said!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by jencar98

Years ago we owned a welsh terrier, so I'm aware of a "true" terrier and their personality. Your comment about yorkies losing their terrier instinct is spot on. I have 3 yorkies, one a puppymill girl, one a ch sired exhibitor breeder's pup, and finally Razz my parti yorkie. Of all 3 dogs Razz has that true tenacious terrier personality, followed by my little puppymill girl and lastly Reno.

And....finally....ELLE....I don't know who you are and quite frankly it doesn't matter to me, but you are either very naive, gullible or being less than honest. LOLOLOL....it IS often the best of the best that are dyeing their dogs. LOLOL....it is the best of the best buying up cases of hair dye and shipping it to show friends, it is the best of the best that have their own special hair dye blends that are kept secret.....AND.....I'm sure that it would be the best of the best that would recommend to others to dye their dogs.....after all, that is how the best of the best often times wins!!!LOLOLOL.....Also, if you think handlers are always winning because of their handling abilities...you need to think again...ROTFLMAO!!!


You know I don't give one hoot whether or not dogs get dyed....I just expect those that preach integrity, reputable breeding etc. to hold themselves to that very same standard, and not be such hypocrites.

[bjh]

Can't everyone quit squabbling and just get along? Lets face it, there are people that enhance their dogs coats, a small percentage might be YTCA members. I don't agree with it but all this squabbling won't stop it. It is done in all breeds, not just Yorkies. It has made me more determined to breed a dog with the proper coat and color. It is not as easy as many of you think. Coat color and texture is just a small part of what makes a good show yorkie. Anyone can go buy a show dog and have someone finish it but it takes many years of hard work and dedication to breed a champion yorkie that you can truly call your own lines. Everyone needs to take a close look at themselves and ask yourself if you are doing all you can to better the breed. I am sure we can all improve in many aspects. We are not all the same. Many of us are just getting started and others have been doing this for years. Many of us have learned on our own the hard way and other have had mentors. There are several breeders and non-breeders on this forum that I have the utmost respect for because of their dedication and passion for the Yorkshire Terrier. Let us all focus on the good things. Over all I think this has been a very good discussion and it has opened my eyes to some things I have not considered before. I understand the passion that parti breeders have for their dogs and I understand the YTCA's stance on not letting them in the show ring. I think for now maybe we should all give it a rest and just focus on our love for the breed. JMO

[manolos mom]

Wonder if this lady got DQ! lady.jpg Sorry

[evab]

Hi, just a quick note, I am a member of YTC UK and we do not have "parti" on UKKC Register, unless that is you consider Blue, Steel Grey & Tan a tri colour, but the "parti" colour is not recognised in the originating breed country, Great Britain, and I have never seen a White dog with a Black saddle on it's back anywhere mentioned throughout history as being a pure bred Yorkshire Terrier, the standard for the breed is a Tan dog with Blue Saddle, I cannot understand why anyone would want to breed outside a breed club standards...........................just my views as I am a member of this forum like anyone else here..don't hang the messenger.

I would like to see proof though of early breeders having stated they not only had these almost all white dogs born in their litters, but also registered them with the AKC. Perhaps what they were referring to was a Tri, being Blue, Steel Grey & Tan?

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by evab

Hi, just a quick note, I am a member of YTC UK and we do not have "parti" on UKKC Register, unless that is you consider Blue, Steel Grey & Tan a tri colour, but the "parti" colour is not recognised in the originating breed country, Great Britain, and I have never seen a White dog with a Black saddle on it's back anywhere mentioned throughout history as being a pure bred Yorkshire Terrier, the standard for the breed is a Tan dog with Blue Saddle, I cannot understand why anyone would want to breed outside a breed club standards...........................just my views as I am a member of this forum like anyone else here..don't hang the messenger.

I would like to see proof though of early breeders having stated they not only had these almost all white dogs born in their litters, but also registered them with the AKC. Perhaps what they were referring to was a Tri, being Blue, Steel Grey & Tan?

I just went to your web site and read the excellent article that you have online regarding parti color yorkies, biewers and the early yorkshire breeders. Thank-you so much for the excellent information!