Parti Color? YTCA?

[Elle]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

I can appreciate the tenacity of the debates, but isn't it a moot point? Since 1942, AKC has had a policy in place of not accepting any additional varieties for any breed.

Absolutely. That's why I said, it's just to promote the selling of puppies.

Our standard was recently changed to make sure parti's were not allowed in. That should tell people that it is not open for discussion.

[Elle]

[quote=kpstoybox;3261091]

Originally Posted by Elle

I don't think it's a fight at all, I think it's just selling puppies. Trying to get more publicity from people looking for information on the real breed.

And people trying to find people to sell puppies to. As I notice, the people in these thread always sell puppies. While all the other people, we've nothing to gain.

Interesting how you always talk about how money makes everything happen. As you have a website selling puppies with each post.[/QUOTE]

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!!! High parti prices. Is that all you got? Prices are what they are. I cannot control what other parti breeders sell their pups for no more then you can control the hundreds of traditional colored pups sold every week. Do I blame you for the blue and tan "micro teaspoon" for sale on puppy find for $9,000? Of course not. Come up with a new beef..this one is getting stale.

See there you go talking about money again. I didn't say anything about prices. I know better. If they were selling for high prices you wouldn't be so dog eat dog to push them.

You cannot sell puppies, the price is dropping every day. They are very cheap when people look past the first couple ads that they find. LOL,


I see them advertised in rescue more than anywhere else. They are far from expensive.

[Elle]

[quote=kpstoybox;3259457]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

I have no problem with Parti's, and they would make nice pets. Just not to be shown or bred. If one comes from a litter, place it in a pet home, and no more breeding for the parents. Even the cane Corso has color standards that can be shown. Only BYB's would accept an off color, and the clueless would buy one.[/QUOTE]



Really? Two very well respected and knowledgeable members here at YT recently purchased parti yorkies..and neither one is clueless concerning the parti. Far from it!
Maybe you are the one that is clueless for making such an ignorant statement.

What kind of breed and color dog is in your avar?

[shodanusmc]

Cane Corso, Brindle.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by kpstoybox

Silly..I don't think so. Other breeds have added color variations that have not affected the original colors of the breed. With out adding your hate filled and bigoted remarks...why don't you tell me how adding a color variation for the parti would change the standard for the blue and tan.

would change the standard for the blue and tan
______________________________________________
You answered your own question.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

If the white is only an overly large patch on the chest and white on the feet you're in trouble. That color pattern does occur on purebred yorkies. I've seen pups born with white "boots" but the white grows out and the pups have normal colored feet by the time they're around 8 weeks. The question is can purebred yorkies have the white patches on the head, sides, legs, etc. without the introduction of a breed with that color pattern such as a papillon or shih tzu. Remember, Mr. Biewer also bred shih tzu. It's the white patches on places other than the chest, feet and a small dot on the chin that leads most to believe that the origin of the parti is the result of a cross breeding.

Mr Biewer Never bred Shih Tzu's

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

The Nikko bitch that produced the parti colored pup was not Nikko bred. She was from a breeder in OK. so Gloria Lipman couldn't attest to the purity of the bloodlines behind the bitch.

That is a downright lie, Coming her and lieing for your entertainment shows how low some you will stoop to discredit the parti color.

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

If the white is only an overly large patch on the chest and white on the feet you're in trouble. That color pattern does occur on purebred yorkies. I've seen pups born with white "boots" but the white grows out and the pups have normal colored feet by the time they're around 8 weeks. The question is can purebred yorkies have the white patches on the head, sides, legs, etc. without the introduction of a breed with that color pattern such as a papillon or shih tzu. Remember, Mr. Biewer also bred shih tzu. It's the white patches on places other than the chest, feet and a small dot on the chin that leads most to believe that the origin of the parti is the result of a cross breeding.

Do you have a source for this? Just curious.

It should be noted that the first generation breeding between a yorkshire terrier and a shih tzu would NOT produce a tri colored puppy unless the yorkie also carried the piebald gene. Not to mention shih tzus have an undercoat...biewers do not.

With research telling us the "foundation dogs" that have produced tri colored puppies, whether biewer or partis, originated from kennels in the UK...I would say any mixed breeding, if it occurred, took place there.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

Do you have a source for this? Just curious.

It should be noted that the first generation breeding between a yorkshire terrier and a shih tzu would NOT produce a tri colored puppy unless the yorkie also carried the piebald gene. Not to mention shih tzus have an undercoat...biewers do not.

With research telling us the "foundation dogs" that have produced tri colored puppies, whether biewer or partis, originated from kennels in the UK...I would say any mixed breeding, if it occurred, took place there.

My source regarding the biewers comes from the biewer breeders. Are you familiar with Leon Whitney's book "How to Breed Dogs"? It's an old book, I'm sure now out of print. But it explains the mode of inheritance of color and pattern for most all breeds. I'm not going to spend my holiday weekend researching but it would be interesting to know if the piebald pattern is a simple recessive gene.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

That is a downright lie, Coming her and lieing for your entertainment shows how low some you will stoop to discredit the parti color.

No it's not a lie and what it does serve to show is how unaware many of the parti dog owners are of what is actually happening with the yorkshire terrier breed and how we got into this unfortunate situation.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Mr Biewer Never bred Shih Tzu's

Yes he did. And if I know that you should too. Knowledge is power and if you are going to continue with the parti colors, which I certainly assume you are, then you should learn the truth about the origins of your parti colors and understand the negative impact that they're making on a purebred breed such as the yorkshire terriers. Again, the only reason you are able to register your dogs is because AKC needs money. I know that they also register things like white german shepherds but you never see them in the ring either.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

Yes he did. And if I know that you should too. Knowledge is power and if you are going to continue with the parti colors, which I certainly assume you are, then you should learn the truth about the origins of your parti colors and understand the negative impact that they're making on a purebred breed such as the yorkshire terriers. Again, the only reason you are able to register your dogs is because AKC needs money. I know that they also register things like white german shepherds but you never see them in the ring either.

Where is your proof on both accounts of Mr biewer breeding Shih's and about the Parti's?
I agree Knowledge is power and I have talked with alot of people directly involved, your knowledge it looks like is coming from hearsay and Biewer breeder guesses.

[Breezeaway]

The first Parti was from Nikko's Rolls Royce Ashley and Nikko's High Spirits.
The dog Woodcres(Shirley Caldwell)in OK. bred to was Nikkos Rolls Royce Manhatten.

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

My source regarding the biewers comes from the biewer breeders. Are you familiar with Leon Whitney's book "How to Breed Dogs"? It's an old book, I'm sure now out of print. But it explains the mode of inheritance of color and pattern for most all breeds. I'm not going to spend my holiday weekend researching but it would be interesting to know if the piebald pattern is a simple recessive gene.

In 2008 the Biewer Breed Club of America participated in a genetic study of the piebald coat color conducted by University Of Saskatchewan Department Of Animal Science under the direction of Dr. Sheila Schmutz. Dr. Schmutz presented this study at the 4th International Conference on the advances in canine and feline genomics and inherited diseases in France.

The results of which stated all the biewers were homozygous for the SINE mutation in the MITF gene promoter. This is the same genotype (SINE/SINE) that has been found in all the other piebald dogs we have tested.

4th International Conference: Advances in canine and feline genomics and inherited diseases

More from Dr. Schmutz.
Dog Coat Color Genetics

As a member of the BBCA whose members include breeders responsible for importing the first biewers into the US....I have never once been told nor shown any evidence that Mr. Biewer bred anything other than yorkshire terriers. Again if one wants to ascertain where perhaps the piebald gene was introduce into the breed...if one believes that had to happen...doing so is simply conjecture because no one knows. Any conjecture on the german breedings are a moot point regarding the partis that were produced in the US.

The common denominator in both breeds....the line traces back to the same kennel in the United Kingdom and there is evidence to support this.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

In 2008 the Biewer Breed Club of America participated in a genetic study of the piebald coat color conducted by University Of Saskatchewan Department Of Animal Science under the direction of Dr. Sheila Schmutz. Dr. Schmutz presented this study at the 4th International Conference on the advances in canine and feline genomics and inherited diseases in France.

The results of which stated all the biewers were homozygous for the SINE mutation in the MITF gene promoter. This is the same genotype (SINE/SINE) that has been found in all the other piebald dogs we have tested.

4th International Conference: Advances in canine and feline genomics and inherited diseases

More from Dr. Schmutz.
Dog Coat Color Genetics

As a member of the BBCA whose members include breeders responsible for importing the first biewers into the US....I have never once been told nor shown any evidence that Mr. Biewer bred anything other than yorkshire terriers. Again if one wants to ascertain where perhaps the piebald gene was introduce into the breed...if one believes that had to happen...doing so is simply conjecture because no one knows. Any conjecture on the german breedings are a moot point regarding the partis that were produced in the US.

The common denominator in both breeds....the line traces back to the same kennel in the United Kingdom and there is evidence to support this.

The Streamglen line, correct? Has it been established whether or not normally colored yorkshire terriers are also homozygous for the SINE mutation in the MITF gene promoter?

May I ask if any effort is being made by your club to work with the other major biewer club and do what is necessary to become recognized by AKC as Biewer Terriers? Although it failed to pass I would guess that it's just a matter of time before AKC does realign the groups and add more including the Companion Group. They will be looking for breeds to fill the new groups and of course for added income. Why not start to police your ranks, remove those who are using splitters and do what is necessary to become an AKC breed?
The YTCA is trying to NOT open their standard for any reason and they certainly aren't going to open it to add white patches to the accepted colors. They will redo the DQ to make it more specific to the parti color and off colored yorkies. So, parti colors will forever remain the black sheep or should I say spotted sheep of this breed. If the Biewer breeders unite and succeed in becoming recognized it will ensure that there will never be a place for parti color yorkies. Biewers will become the white spotted yorkie type dog shown at AKC shows and you will be considered a legitimate breed.