Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3257677)

"On the Internet, where abnormal behavior is the status quo, tempers
can flare in the heat of debate and word wars can last for days or
even weeks. It's not uncommon for users to ridicule, harass or insult
those who disagree with them.

But if you damage someone's reputation by trying to embarrass them in
a public forum, you could be sued for libel or defamation. After all,
there's no reason to assume that the messages you send through
cyberspace are immune from lawsuits."

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3257684)

In todays world you can sue for almost anything. However, as my 2 nephews have told me as well as former YTCA President who was a practicing laywer, defamation is very difficult to prove. One has to prove that business/livelihood has suffered (monitary loss). I've seen cases similar to this, here on YT....they went no where in the courts.

And the interpretation of BYBer is a matter of personal opinion. However, there are several websites that have the correct interpretation. And the person that is being accused of being a BYBer would have to disprove they aren't

Originally Posted by manolos mom (Post 3257641)

Hey, nothing bothers me, Yes I bred my Bitch 2 times, she had 6 pups and I gave them to my friends. I have learned so much about what is right and wrong and have no shame in talking about it. Yes I have been working with a very well known Mentor and have come a long way. I will be showing in Dallas in September. I'm not much, but I am trying to do things the Right way.

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3257599)

That is your opinion about "paying your dues". However, if you use a champion stud have YOU paid your dues? Nope. You did not produce or champion him. You have capitalized on someone elses hard work.
But this would be in a cooperation with the owner/breeder... unlike buying a Championed dog from a third party. :rolleyes:

Some championed dogs have nothing but a champion sire, then look down to the 4th generation for the next champion.
Yes, and your point is?

If the Ch's are any further back than 3 generations then you shouldn't be advertising them as Ch pedigrees. JMO

You very much can purchase a championed dog. Do some homework and you will see that. Check puppyfind and see what pops up. They are out there if you have the checkbook.
I have never seen one worth buying - could you post a link to one? I'm sure some have gotten "lucky" and taken their dog to several shows and gotten the points to CH their dog but it's probably the only one they've ever done or will do. This dog came from Champion LINES.

I too believe in unwritten and written rules. One is to be kind to your neighbor. I have not seen that here much. Except from the OP who was quite nice to the new owner. I also hope that Marshall Dillon is in a good home that loves him finally. Not just for "show" or as a commodity. I hope he is living like the little prince that he should have been all along.:D

Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 3257691)

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3257687)

That is your take and opinion. My brother is a practicing lawyer and according to him it is how it affects the party involved and the facts. Just because the other cases did not go anywhere means nothing. More suits are being filed each day especially for internet cases, they are rising and rising.

Regardless of that, like is being said here, is it ethical? To make a statement that you have no proof of is opening up that can of worms unto yourself. End of story for me.
The fact remains that Marshall is with the Crestwing lady and she states she is pampering him. I hope he has a good home now and that he is used wisely as the OP stated. I also hope he makes beautiful babies for the new owner and that she can put one of them in the ring to show for it.

Originally Posted by cj125 (Post 3257694)

Originally Posted by jencar98 (Post 3257709)

In the show ring? It is my impression that Marshall was not purchased for the show puppies he might produce, only the puppies he would produce to sell. It's exploiting Marshall for his CH. status, something this breeder had nothing to do with earning. How would Sue feel if she had worked hard to bring a dog to it's championship, only to have her dog later used as a marketing tool to sell puppies by someone that had nothing to do with his achievement?

You know, sometimes it's not a matter of what is or isn't legal it's matter of what is right. Whatever happened to holding oneself to a higher standard?

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3257503)

Now I wanted to quote the original poster here to make sure that I got this right. The OP states that she DID NOT have a contract with this dog. She sold him with full registration. She trusted this person and that person broke her trust and she will now change her ways of selling show dogs and maintain co-ownership. She then tells Crestwing she is happy that Crestwing loves Marshall Dillon and that she breeds him wisely and for the betterment of the breed. Then further states that she knows that Marshall is capable of producing wonderful puppies when bred correctly.

WHY THE ANGRY COMMENTS?? Do any of you know how the Crestwing lady intends to breed this boy? Have any of you asked?
Then people come on her and start calling people unethical? Do you know that person? Have you seen their ethics first hand? Where did you get your information? Is it reliable? Proof?

I do not know any of the people involved in this. Maybe I should just turn cheek and mind my own, but I cannot seem to do that in this case.

Why such angry comments about the person who obtained Marshall Dillon? How do you know she does not intend to breed him correctly. Maybe I looked at the wrong website, but her adults have some names in their pedigrees ( CH Stardust Spirit Of Bluegrass, Ch. Ron-Del's Lil' Bita Nitro and dam is Ch. Ron-Del's Lil Bita Sparkler, Lil' Blast Jordan Of Siller's Farms out of Ch. Ron-Del's Lil' Bita TNT and M-N-M's Chase A Bunny whose sire is Ch. Chobie's Chu Bear, h. Glenmar's Lord Of The Rings and Ch. Glenmar Ribbons and Roses, CAN CH Glaranik Star Choice, ROM and his dam is CAN CH Precious Gem Shatzi Gold). They may not be the names you might chose to breed, however these people took the time and championed out their dogs. They bred them and placed pups that got into this "unethical" persons hands?? It seems like she is obtaining the best she can to have a chance in producing a champion. She at least said that in her post. Maybe there is something that I am just not seeing.
The OP clearly states she hopes that Marshall Dillon can produce wonderful puppies when bred to a quality bitch. Who is to say that with the above names in her dogs pedigrees that her bitches are not quality. I have not seen them, HAVE YOU?

I have really lost a lot of faith in some of the people on here :thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3257687)

That is your take and opinion. My brother is a practicing lawyer and according to him it is how it affects the party involved and the facts. Just because the other cases did not go anywhere means nothing. More suits are being filed each day especially for internet cases, they are rising and rising.

Regardless of that, like is being said here, is it ethical? To make a statement that you have no proof of is opening up that can of worms unto yourself. End of story for me.
The fact remains that Marshall is with the Crestwing lady and she states she is pampering him. I hope he has a good home now and that he is used wisely as the OP stated. I also hope he makes beautiful babies for the new owner and that she can put one of them in the ring to show for it.

Originally Posted by puppylove11 (Post 3257717)

:thumbup::thumbup: I totally agree!

This whole mess could of been avoided if Diane had done the right thing by Marshall, so the fault lays with her and no one else. If Rosemark had so much trust in Diane, Rosemark's issue is with Diane.

The internet does make the world a very small one, but just because something is posted on a public forum or anywhere on the internet does not make it a fact! I have stated I do not know Crestwing, so I do not know how her dogs are kept. I will state just because someone does not breed to the standard of the ytca does not mean they treat their dogs badly and just because some is a member of the ytca does not mean their dogs are well kept and loved! People have rights and people have a right to dream and follow their dreams, rather you agree with them or not, rather they are a ytca member or not. I would never post something on a public forum without knowing for a fact it is true with proof to back it up. To be honest I would never post the name of someone and make statements on a public forum, I would personally take it up with the party involved.

Crestwing has rights and just because you may believe she does not breed to the ytca standard, does not make her wrong! The ytca is a club and set the standard as they believe the standard should be set, but they are not god. We all have a right to believe in what we want to believe in.

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3257723)

As I said unless one knows exactly what went down with Marshall, it can only be left to speculation. There is more than meets the eye. And as you said, someone elses hard work.
My nephews are practicing lawyers too. Like I said it's based all on interpretation of the law and how good laywers are at arguing the case.

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3257721)

I will end on this...

The lady from Crestwing has stated that he is being pampered. That she is hoping for show potential pups from him, and had him vetted says something.
The lady from Rosemark came on and stated her part, that she knows he has potential to sire beautiful pups, and that she is happy that Crestwing loves her new boy.
This is between Rosemark and Crestwing. What I think, what you think, or what anyone but them two think does not matter.

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3257726)

I see this statement all the time, YTCA is not God, but they are the keeper of the standard and the protector of the breed. Diane is a member and did not follow the code of ethics and conduct of which she signed a paper to uphold when she joined.

Originally Posted by puppylove11 (Post 3257803)

This has been my point all along! Diane has been able to vote on the standard being a member of the ytca, but turned around and sold a champion dog from another member's breeding with full akc papers. If members of the ytca believe they are the only ones with the rights to breed yorkies they should police their club better. I know I sound like a broken record, but until all the members of the ytca follow the guidelines set forth by the club they belong to, the ytca has bigger problems to worry about within itself.

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3257503)

Now I wanted to quote the original poster here to make sure that I got this right. The OP states that she DID NOT have a contract with this dog. She sold him with full registration. She trusted this person and that person broke her trust and she will now change her ways of selling show dogs and maintain co-ownership. She then tells Crestwing she is happy that Crestwing loves Marshall Dillon and that she breeds him wisely and for the betterment of the breed. Then further states that she knows that Marshall is capable of producing wonderful puppies when bred correctly.

WHY THE ANGRY COMMENTS?? Do any of you know how the Crestwing lady intends to breed this boy? Have any of you asked?
Then people come on her and start calling people unethical? Do you know that person? Have you seen their ethics first hand? Where did you get your information? Is it reliable? Proof?

I do not know any of the people involved in this. Maybe I should just turn cheek and mind my own, but I cannot seem to do that in this case.

Why such angry comments about the person who obtained Marshall Dillon? How do you know she does not intend to breed him correctly. Maybe I looked at the wrong website, but her adults have some names in their pedigrees ( CH Stardust Spirit Of Bluegrass, Ch. Ron-Del's Lil' Bita Nitro and dam is Ch. Ron-Del's Lil Bita Sparkler, Lil' Blast Jordan Of Siller's Farms out of Ch. Ron-Del's Lil' Bita TNT and M-N-M's Chase A Bunny whose sire is Ch. Chobie's Chu Bear, h. Glenmar's Lord Of The Rings and Ch. Glenmar Ribbons and Roses, CAN CH Glaranik Star Choice, ROM and his dam is CAN CH Precious Gem Shatzi Gold). They may not be the names you might chose to breed, however these people took the time and championed out their dogs. They bred them and placed pups that got into this "unethical" persons hands?? It seems like she is obtaining the best she can to have a chance in producing a champion. She at least said that in her post. Maybe there is something that I am just not seeing.
The OP clearly states she hopes that Marshall Dillon can produce wonderful puppies when bred to a quality bitch. Who is to say that with the above names in her dogs pedigrees that her bitches are not quality. I have not seen them, HAVE YOU?

I have really lost a lot of faith in some of the people on here :thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

Originally Posted by Elle (Post 3257500)

Now you are changing your story. You wanted these answers before didn't you? Now you don't care? What, on with the next round of questions? Why? What about Marshall? You seem to be more concerned on the online image of what has happened than the events. This is bothersome to me. I don't know why you come here posting questions expecting answers. We want answers. Do you have any? You've received plenty of information for your questions already. Why do you continue to keep asking?

We all know the right thing to do. This is just getting worst as time goes on. It would not matter if Marshall went to live in the greatest situation (which I know is absolutely FAR FROM THE TRUTH). The breeder did not give him up to sell. He should not be out where he is.

Golddust, DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE'S BEEN THROUGH? DO YOU KNOW WHAT TYPE OF "HOME" HE'S BEEN IN?

Why are YOU asking so many questions? You seem to have no emotions for anyone in this.

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3257622)

So then are you unethical or were you? Did you have a great mentor that helped you go from BYB to what you are? Do you breed? Show?

Is it okay to come on an open forum and make libel statement? Just wondering.

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3257817)

You are incorrect. Diane just became a member last quarter 2009, so she didn't vote on the DQ.

Members don't believe they are the only ones with the rights to breed yorkies, most of us believe if you are breeding you should be breeding to standard.

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3257712)

As I stated I do not know her. I own 2 parti colored yorkies. I do not own a biewer. All facts.

"If the Ch's are any further back than 3 generations then you shouldn't be advertising them as Ch pedigrees. JMO" Well that again is YOUR opinion.


"Yes, and your point is?"
My point was that maybe she intends to use the boy on her dogs that have champions further down, in hopes to produce a champion dog. She may intend any number of things for all I know. But if her intentions were poor, then why come here and put it out for everyone to see? Sounds silly to me. Like I stated before...Has anyone bothered to ask? Or did the accusations just start flying? Then it went downhill from there in my opinion.
Do you know this to be FACT?

As I look at her website and her adults page I see she has a dog from a YT member here whom most of you have said has beautiful dogs. Wonder where that dog came from? Would those not be good showlines?

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3257503)

Now I wanted to quote the original poster here to make sure that I got this right. The OP states that she DID NOT have a contract with this dog. She sold him with full registration. She trusted this person and that person broke her trust and she will now change her ways of selling show dogs and maintain co-ownership. She then tells Crestwing she is happy that Crestwing loves Marshall Dillon and that she breeds him wisely and for the betterment of the breed. Then further states that she knows that Marshall is capable of producing wonderful puppies when bred correctly.

WHY THE ANGRY COMMENTS?? Do any of you know how the Crestwing lady intends to breed this boy? Have any of you asked?
Then people come on her and start calling people unethical? Do you know that person? Have you seen their ethics first hand? Where did you get your information? Is it reliable? Proof?

I do not know any of the people involved in this. Maybe I should just turn cheek and mind my own, but I cannot seem to do that in this case.

Why such angry comments about the person who obtained Marshall Dillon? How do you know she does not intend to breed him correctly. Maybe I looked at the wrong website, but her adults have some names in their pedigree

(CH Stardust Spirit Of Bluegrass,
Ch. Ron-Del's Lil' Bita Nitro
and dam is Ch. Ron-Del's Lil Bita Sparkler,
Lil' Blast Jordan Of Siller's Farms
out of Ch. Ron-Del's Lil' Bita TNT
and M-N-M's Chase A Bunny
whose sire is Ch. Chobie's Chu Bear, h.
Glenmar's Lord Of The Rings and
Ch. Glenmar Ribbons and Roses,
CAN CH Glaranik Star Choice, ROM and his dam is
CAN CH Precious Gem Shatzi Gold).

They may not be the names you might chose to breed, however these people took the time and championed out their dogs. They bred them and placed pups that got into this "unethical" persons hands?? It seems like she is obtaining the best she can to have a chance in producing a champion. She at least said that in her post. Maybe there is something that I am just not seeing.
The OP clearly states she hopes that Marshall Dillon can produce wonderful puppies when bred to a quality bitch. Who is to say that with the above names in her dogs pedigrees that her bitches are not quality. I have not seen them, HAVE YOU?

I have really lost a lot of faith in some of the people on here :thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

Originally Posted by golddust (Post 3257882)

Libral statements are fine opinions are fine....what is wrong is using poeples LEGAL NAMES and KENNEL NAMES on a open forum...and that unfortunately some people sadly have done on this very open forum

Originally Posted by cj125 (Post 3257946)

Well we weren't the only ones writing names, were we?

And don't you consider a website the internet? Because that's exactly where all the above names came from - Crestwing's website - on the internet! The door swings both ways. :rolleyes:

Bottom line is - and everyone has already said this - the problem started with a gal named Diane... but everyone shares a part in this - including Crestwing because she had to have a good idea of what was going on. After all, she said herself that she checks pedigrees - so she knows the breeders and kennels names.

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3258127)

I would think it was a good thing that the Crestwing lady checks her pedigrees, that shows she has done some homework like is always suggested on the breeders pages. I applaud her for that. And maybe that was what the lady from Rosemark meant when she said that if the new owner studs him to quality bitches. Hopefully with knowing the lines and what bitch to put him to to improve the breed will happen. Regardless, I hope as I have stated many times that this guy is being spoiled and pampered, he has earned it.:D

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3258097)

Interesting thread. May I throw my 2 cents in?

After doing a search for the current owner and the thread in question some things are very crystal clear about this whole situation. There is an obvious wrong and Crestwing is not completely blameless. She proudly stated in her original post about Marshall, and in that post referred back to Marshall's origin. She proudly announced to have one of Rosemarks babies. That to me says she knew where Marshall came from. She knew he was championed and she knew the people she was acquiring the dog from were not the original breeders or even those that worked to champion him. Now, I am assuming Crestwing's is a pet owner like myself with the only difference being that she breeds. In that case, the fact that Marshall was on his third home already (I'm counting the original breeder's home as his first home) there HAS to be something wrong with the situation. Why had a "championed" dog be bounced around from home to home? I understand the why and the how Marshall left his first home, but the 2nd and 3rd rehoming throw huge red flags for me. If I was in Crestwing's shoes, I would have stayed away from that purchase.

I for one would really hope that Crestwing would reach out to Rosemark. That would be the honorable thing to do.If Marshall is pampered and loved, I'm glad. Every single furbaby, yorkie or not deserves that. But it doesn't take away from the fact that he is not where he is meant to be. Why Golddust and Yorkielady don't see that, I don't understand. The claim, "we all have/had to start somewhere" is so bogus. Is it really that much harder to start from a solid foundation?

Originally Posted by jencar98 (Post 3258155)

Yes, the new owner is very aware of pedigrees, the concern is the motive for checking pedigrees, is it to exploit Marshall or to produce a champion? Time will tell, but your history generally is a good indicator of what you'll do in the future....I'm just sayin'.