Question for exhibitors

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

And not as the example given above?

Agreed. However, it isn't happening very often anymore, as the AKC has directed judges not to cross over points. The reason is something stupid like it's a way to pick up additional revenue by additional entries. I don't understand that logic.

But, in the situation that I highlighted, you can go over a Champion and pick up additional points.....works if you're looking for a Major.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I think I just read that the classes have just changed. Can't remember where I read it but, it is 6-9 months 9-12, 12-15 & 15-18 months.....I'll double check.

Just remembered. It was in the entry form when entering a puppy in the South Bay Show.
.

That's why I said other classes. Unless it has changed the division of the puppy classes varies. I know some shows used to lump all puppies in the 6 to 12 month class and other bigger show would divide it up. The majority of the shows around here are held by Onofrio. I am not sure how other dog show superintendents offer classes. There is also the Novice class, American Bred class and the new Amateur-Owner-Handler class.

If the judges can't give crossover points then does that mean they will eliminate the Best of Winners award?

[Ladyhawk]

Originally Posted by bjh

That's why I said other classes. Unless it has changed the division of the puppy classes varies. I know some shows used to lump all puppies in the 6 to 12 month class and other bigger show would divide it up. The majority of the shows around here are held by Onofrio. I am not sure how other dog show superintendents offer classes. There is also the Novice class, American Bred class and the new Amateur-Owner-Handler class.

If the judges can't give crossover points then does that mean they will eliminate the Best of Winners award?

Ace took both of his majors by cross-over and cross-overs were awarded last month in Bel Alton. Judges are still crossing over for a worthy dog whether AKC looses money from it or not. I know that AKC is in financial peril but it's not fair for them to not allow crossovers to a worthy dog.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

Ace took both of his majors by cross-over and cross-overs were awarded last month in Bel Alton. Judges are still crossing over for a worthy dog whether AKC looses money from it or not. I know that AKC is in financial peril but it's not fair for them to not allow crossovers to a worthy dog.

I hope judges continue to do it when it is truly deserved. It should not be about money. I can't imagine they would completely quit doing it.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by bjh

If you go back to that first link I posted that had the point scale for the different divisions it will show you how many dogs of each sex you have to beat in order to receive points from 1 to 5 per show. You live in Division 6.
Division 6 is comprised of: Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Wisconsin. In Division 6 it takes 7 dogs for a 3 point major and it takes 8 bitches for a 3 point major. For a dog to become a champion it has to win at least two shows that are majors and those major wins have to be under two different judges. It takes a total of 15 points for a dog to become a champion and those points have to be won under at least three different judges.

At a dog show all the males are shown first. There are different class divisions that exhibitors can enter their dogs in like puppy class, 12 to 18 month class, bred by exhibitor class, open class, there are other class beside those. After each class is judged then the 1st place winners of each class come back into the ring to complete for winners dog. The best male is awarded winners dog and is gets the points based on the number of other dogs he beat. After winners dog is selected the judge will select the reserve winners dog but that dog does not win any points unless later the winners dog is found to be disqualified. After the males are judged then the bitches are judged in the same manner. After the class dogs are judged then the winners dog and the winners bitch come back in the ring along with any specials (dogs or bitches that are already champions) and then judge will select Best of Breed, Best of Winners and Best of Opposite Sex.

For example if the winners bitch was awarded 3 points based on bitch entries and the winners dog was awarded 2 points based on males entries then if the male was awarded Best of Winners then he would be awarded 3 points instead of 2 since he beat the winners bitch.

Yes I saw all that but did not know what was meant by the word major. So it means a win?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

Ace took both of his majors by cross-over and cross-overs were awarded last month in Bel Alton. Judges are still crossing over for a worthy dog whether AKC looses money from it or not. I know that AKC is in financial peril but it's not fair for them to not allow crossovers to a worthy dog.

It was given as a directive to the judges last year. It is being done less and less. Revenue being one of the reasons. .....However, the other reason is it is felt that it is a cheap way of winning a Championship title, dogs having less competition against dogs of their own sex. I've had dogs obtain their Championship by crossing over points.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bjh

I hope judges continue to do it when it is truly deserved. It should not be about money. I can't imagine they would completely quit doing it.

AKC is doing a lot of things because of Revenue. You'll find on occassion that there are some judges that are still crossing over the points, but not as often as it use to happen.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Yes I saw all that but did not know what was meant by the word major. So it means a win?

Yes, a major is a win where 3, 4 or 5 points are awarded.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bjh

That's why I said other classes. Unless it has changed the division of the puppy classes varies. I know some shows used to lump all puppies in the 6 to 12 month class and other bigger show would divide it up. The majority of the shows around here are held by Onofrio. I am not sure how other dog show superintendents offer classes. There is also the Novice class, American Bred class and the new Amateur-Owner-Handler class.

If the judges can't give crossover points then does that mean they will eliminate the Best of Winners award?

The break-down of puppy classes is broken down at the National. But, it is to my understanding that it is being done more and more. I do know when I entered the South Bay shows that option wasn't available, this year it is. The superintendent does not control what classes are being offered, it is controlled by AKC and the Kennel Clubs.

I don't think that BOW will be eliminated, but with the changes that are going on, never say never. We now have Select dog awards, with points that go toward Grand Championship title.....

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by bjh

Yes, a major is a win where 3, 4 or 5 points are awarded.

OK now I get it. Thank You.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

AKC is doing a lot of things because of Revenue. You'll find on occassion that there are some judges that are still crossing over the points, but not as often as it use to happen.

I know in OKC this May they didn't crossover the majors or Drea would have been finished already LOL since she won WB 3 of the 4 days but the count in dogs and bitches were so close I think the judges really didn't realize there was a major in dogs and not bitches. But winning 3 of the 4 days with Drea was just as good

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I know in OKC this May they didn't crossover the majors or Drea would have been finished already LOL since she won WB 3 of the 4 days but the count in dogs and bitches were so close I think the judges really didn't realize there was a major in dogs and not bitches. But winning 3 of the 4 days with Drea was just as good

The more seasoned judges tend to do run their ring the way they want. I know that when the numbers are so close I've had judges tell me they had to think a minute and check where the Major was so they'd cross over the right sex.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

The more seasoned judges tend to do run their ring the way they want. I know that when the numbers are so close I've had judges tell me they had to think a minute and check where the Major was so they'd cross over the right sex.

They do tend to run the ring the way they want. With no bitch special that weekend I truly feel the judges didn't know the major was in dogs as I said the count was so close in dogs and bitches and I'm sure they thought the class bitches would be happy going BOS LOL...but we are happy none the less but would have been nice to have her finished already. But hopefully in Houston that can happen

Donna

[musiccitymom]

This is a great thread, so much information!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by musiccitymom

This is a great thread, so much information!

I've learned a lot but so much yet that I don't understand.