Question for YTCA members

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bjh

Donna, this thread was not started in any way to start a discussion on the ethics of coat enhancing, by that I mean changing a coat from a light steel blue to a dark steel blue, or changing the gold from a light gold to a rich gold. We all know that this goes on and it is a pretty much an acceptable practice among some exhibitors, particularly handlers and some long time exhibitors. It would just be nice if they were all shown 'a la natural'.

While there are some people that will go to extreme to surgically correct problems like bite, testicles, ears, etc, that is not that common in the show ring but it does happen. I have expressed before that we are in agreement that structure and soundless is of much more importance to focus on than color. That is the reason I have expressed that I wish the standard did not put so much emphasis on requiring a dark steel blue coat. Like you and others have stated many times, the correct shade of the steel blue is often up to the interpretation of the beholder but correct soundless should be unquestionable.

I don't know who the 'Silk' person is but I can say that I have been a member here for several years and I have never read where anyone openly admitted they enhanced a dogs coat. If someone did I would just applaud them for being honest. I do know that it is something people will not openly admit to on an open forum.

From what I have heard about the AKC judges, they pretty much know what dogs are dyed and they don't worry about it unless it is a really bad dye job and even then they don't usually dq them but they might withhold a ribbon if it is obvious.

Ahhh! and you can see them shown a la natural.....at a UKC show or/and Crufts.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by straightsilk

Some pretty fancy rationalizing here. so you want to pick and choose the rules that you follow?

Fact is that there are color DQs in your standard.

I would really like to see all foreign substances banned as they are in Europe.

Just because someone knows how to color a dog so the judge is fooled doesn't mean it's right. Just because they're coloring a light spot on the dog's topline so the stupid judge won't mistake it for a structural fault doesn't mean it's right. And posting about it on a public forum makes the code of conduct and ethics statements meaningless if someone can admit to coloring their dog and not pay a price.

I believe no one has ever agreed that it is right, I for one know it's wrong and it shouldn't be done but fact is it's done and done in a lot of other breeds, right or wrong it's just a lesser wrong as lets say, surgically implanting testicles, surgically altering teeth, surgically fixing a "GENTIC" disorder as in Leggs Perthes. Structure and movement is more important in the ring than someone coloring a dog, crippled rears bad fronts, bad toplines...that is the overall picture why can't you see what is more important and go after that with a complaint? That's the make up of a dog structurely and what is produced! You can say it's fancy rationalizing but that is where the priority should lie and what should be more focused on. Walk a mile in my shoes in the show ring and see what I see and maybe then you would agree. Maybe you won't but that's ok
Wrong is wrong no matter how you look at it but why focus on something so trival when there is more important and more serious things to worry about...

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I believe no one has ever agreed that it is right, I for one know it's wrong and it shouldn't be done but fact is it's done and done in a lot of other breeds, right or wrong it's just a lesser wrong as lets say, surgically implanting testicles, surgically altering teeth, surgically fixing a "GENTIC" disorder as in Leggs Perthes. Structure and movement is more important in the ring than someone coloring a dog, crippled rears bad fronts, bad toplines...that is the overall picture why can't you see what is more important and go after that with a complaint? That's the make up of a dog structurely and what is produced! You can say it's fancy rationalizing but that is where the priority should lie and what should be more focused on. Walk a mile in my shoes in the show ring and see what I see and maybe then you would agree. Maybe you won't but that's ok
Wrong is wrong no matter how you look at it but why focus on something so trival when there is more important and more serious things to worry about...

Donna,

Definately a Gotcha Post as you eluded too.

Now as far as not allowing foriegn substance in Europe.....You and I know several well known exhibitors and handlers that show there as well as in other countries and products are used. The only well known show being Crufts, where you do have to show the dog a la natural

[puppylove11]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I believe no one has ever agreed that it is right, I for one know it's wrong and it shouldn't be done but fact is it's done and done in a lot of other breeds, right or wrong it's just a lesser wrong as lets say, surgically implanting testicles, surgically altering teeth, surgically fixing a "GENTIC" disorder as in Leggs Perthes. Structure and movement is more important in the ring than someone coloring a dog, crippled rears bad fronts, bad toplines...that is the overall picture why can't you see what is more important and go after that with a complaint? That's the make up of a dog structurely and what is produced! You can say it's fancy rationalizing but that is where the priority should lie and what should be more focused on. Walk a mile in my shoes in the show ring and see what I see and maybe then you would agree. Maybe you won't but that's ok
Wrong is wrong no matter how you look at it but why focus on something so trival when there is more important and more serious things to worry about...

With all this being said why was it so important for the ytca to add the color DQ to their standard? Would it not be more important to DQ bad patellas, bad bites, bad rear ends, etc? How many yorkshire terriers have you seen with the champion in front of their name with bad knees, bad bites, liver shunt throwers, etc? MANY! One day people will realize just because a dog has champion in front of their name does not mean they are an excellent healthy example of the breed. People will also realize one day just because someone belongs to the ytca does not make them a honest breeder with morals.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Donna,

Definately a Gotcha Post as you eluded too.

Now as far as not allowing foriegn substance in Europe.....You and I know several well known exhibitors and handlers that show there as well as in other countries and products are used. The only well known show being Crufts, where you do have to show the dog a la natural

Well Mary what can I say? It's sad if it's a "Gotcha Post"....when enhancing a dog is so trival in my opinion as opposed to what I've posted being much more of a concern and justifiable for a complaint as to just "enhancing" a dog...
I guess some just don't have a life nor the desire to really take a step back and realize that there are far more important things to focus on in this breed besides who and who does not color enhance a dog

[Lili]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

Did this change when the YTCA did the color change and changing what would be disqualified due to the parti yorkie? I would imagine so. I for one have seen YTCA members color coat and was taught by one how to color coat. So for one to believe the members of the YTCA are above this is nonsense! Especially since they would have to tattle on each other to turn one another in for such an infraction.

That makes two of us. In fact a "judge" told me she also did! And she was good at it too

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

With all this being said why was it so important for the ytca to add the color DQ to their standard? Would it not be more important to DQ bad patellas, bad bites, bad rear ends, etc? How many yorkshire terriers have you seen with the champion in front of their name with bad knees, bad bites, liver shunt throwers, etc? MANY! One day people will realize just because a dog has champion in front of their name does not mean they are an excellent healthy example of the breed. People will also realize one day just because someone belongs to the ytca does not make them a honest breeder with morals.

You know what, I agree with you 100% about DQ'ing all you have pointed out ( in a prefect world ) because if there was one in place and I was a judge you betcha I would use it! And again you are right that just because a dog has a CH in front of his name is champion worthy you're preaching to the choir with me... I don't know how many times I've preached this sort of stuff and just because one belongs to any particular club means the entire membership has morals or are honest. There is good and bad in EVERY ASPECT of life whether it be with YTCA or any other breeder that is not a member...
Again, your just preaching to the choir here...something I"ve stressed many times.........especially with pedigree hunters that want champions just to try and valditate their breeding program....

[straightsilk]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

With all this being said why was it so important for the ytca to add the color DQ to their standard? Would it not be more important to DQ bad patellas, bad bites, bad rear ends, etc? How many yorkshire terriers have you seen with the champion in front of their name with bad knees, bad bites, liver shunt throwers, etc? MANY! One day people will realize just because a dog has champion in front of their name does not mean they are an excellent healthy example of the breed. People will also realize one day just because someone belongs to the ytca does not make them a honest breeder with morals.

[Lili]

Altering the natural color of your Yorkie be it the blue, gold, eye rims, nose pigment etc is serious. It's a serious problem. The playing field is not equal when some are shown natural and some are altered in ways judges "DON'T always catch. This is FACT. It's unfortunate.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Lili

Altering the natural color of your Yorkie be it the blue, gold, eye rims, nose pigment etc is serious. It's a serious problem. The playing field is not equal when some are shown natural and some are altered in ways judges "DON'T always catch. This is FACT. It's unfortunate.

you know funny thing is most judges know when a dog is enhanced in any capacity LOL...I guess I can nominate you guys as the color police at the shows and I guess for every dog in the show building you catch being chalked, having a black marker on their coat, poodle top knot extensions being done what kind of reaction you'll get....I wanna be there so I can take pictures...Please let me know so I can attend

Donna

[puppylove11]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

you know funny thing is most judges know when a dog is enhanced in any capacity LOL...I guess I can nominate you guys as the color police at the shows and I guess for every dog in the show building you catch being chalked, having a black marker on their coat, poodle top knot extensions being done what kind of reaction you'll get....I wanna be there so I can take pictures...Please let me know so I can attend

Donna

Now this is just to funny, LOL! Most judges do know when a dog is enhanced, because alot of the judges enhance or have enhanced their own dogs while showing. It can also be said judges sometimes pick who is holding the lead instead of the show prospect being shown. I have been in a ring many times or watched ringside and seen alot of average pet quality in my opinion. You as a member of the ytca preach one thing, but inturn alot of the time do the opposite. Nothing but a double standard.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

Now this is just to funny, LOL! Most judges do know when a dog is enhanced, because alot of the judges enhance or have enhanced their own dogs while showing. It can also be said judges sometimes pick who is holding the lead instead of the show prospect being shown. I have been in a ring many times or watched ringside and seen alot of average pet quality in my opinion. You as a member of the ytca preach one thing, but inturn alot of the time do the opposite. Nothing but a double standard.

LOL I'm glad you know me that well as I have no clue as to who you are. I'm so happy you have informed me as to how I do I truly appreciate it my friend! You gotta keep me on my toes

Donna

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

LOL I'm glad you know me that well as I have no clue as to who you are. I'm so happy you have informed me as to how I do I truly appreciate it my friend! You gotta keep me on my toes

Donna

Another gotcha thread.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Another gotcha thread.

only gotcha is gottcha me to laughing LOL....but Mary I'm glad someone keeps me on my toes

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

only gotcha is gottcha me to laughing LOL....but Mary I'm glad someone keeps me on my toes

I can just picture you.....bustin a gut......