Raw diet and recent TERRIBLE breath!?

[Veemo]

Hi all, I have a 6lb Yorkie/Chihuahua mix that has been on a raw diet since May. When I first adopted him, he didn’t have bad breath… it was just normal doggy breath. He did have a sweet puppy smell to him in general; however that wasn’t a bad scent. Within the first month of him being on the raw diet, his smell completely vanished and his coat was beautiful. It even grew a bit and was super shiny. Everything was fine until the past month or two. While he himself still doesn’t smell, his breath absolutely stinks. It smells like death/feces, and I can’t understand why it has started to smell. For the first few months, I wasn’t brushing his teeth or doing anything too special ( and it didn’t smell a bit), but now I’m wiping his teeth with those teeth pads, and brushing them with a toothbrush/toothpaste. It helps his breath for half a day, but then it comes back. It seems like it constantly smells throughout the day, not just after he eats or anything. I also smell it as he breathes out his nose. And not sure if it’s related, but he also he pretty gassy… he farts a lot haha.

I try to brush and wipe his teeth daily, but realistically, the get wiped 3-4 times a week and brushed 2-3 times. I know, I’m trying to be better about that! So yeah, I really am trying to figure out why his breath smells so bad, and I’m wondering if it’s his diet. His teeth are in very good condition (he’s a young dog) with barely any tartar or plaque, and his gums look nice and healthy so I definitely don’t think it’s his actual teeth that’s the problem. I put him on a raw diet mainly to help keep his teeth in check since little dogs usually have a lot of teeth problems. I think it’s something in his diet that I may be doing wrong so I’d really appreciate any help I can get.

Here’s his typical weekly diet, however it does change based on what I have on hand or pick up for him.

Standard diet;
-Ground beef/turkey/chicken/cut-up chicken breast/ sardines (rarely). The ground meat is mixed with carrots, plain yogurt, and eggs (no egg shells). I usually make a month’s worth of one batch then switch to a different protein. 4 times a week, twice daily.

-With the meat portion, he gets a portion of either chickpeas, sweet potato, greenbeans, peas, apple, banana, etc. Mainly greenbeans & chickpeas though. 4 times a week, twice daily.

-Chicken liver/beef liver/green tripe- 1 time a week, twice daily.

-Chicken wings and sometimes chicken necks/pork necks- 1 time a week, twice daily (two wings total).

-As for chews, I occasionally get him bully sticks or pig ears. I’m still looking for a dental chew that he will eat since he hasn’t like any so far.

-As far as supplements go, the only thing I really add to his food is a mix of chia seeds, hemp seeds, nutritional yeast, and flax seeds. Sometimes coconut oil when I remember. I just sprinkle a couple pinches on once a day.

I felt like I was providing him a balanced diet but now I don’t know anymore. I spent months beforehand researching a raw diet, and though I’m not providing him with more of the exotic meats (I can’t due to my budget), I felt like he was getting a good balance still. I’m a bit limited to options especially with the bones, since I’m afraid anything too big would chip his teeth. I basically just stick to chicken wings 90% of the time since they’re perfect for him.
He was doing amazing those first 2 months and still is doing great, but the bad breath has gotten out of control. I can’t even let him lick me anymore since it literally smells like a dying corpse/feces. Based on the info above, could this be more diet related rather than an underlying medical problem? He has absolutely no other medical symptoms related to the topic of bad breath/gas, and is a perfectly healthy, happy dog so I’m leaning more on this being a diet problem. Please let me know your thoughts!!

[Veemo]

Also, just to clarify, it's not like his mouth smells like it's rotting. I'm not sure how to explain it, but whenever he either licks me or breathes out, it just smells like a fart... lol. I definitely don't think he's eating his poop or anything because I take him out on a leash everyday and have never seen him even once show interest in eating his poop. But his breathe seriously smells exactly like his farts. I know, it's gross but that's what it is haha.

[Wylie's Mom]

If the mouth odor is really this bad, you truly need to get to a vet asap. Tooth pain can be excruciating - so please don't let this linger. Just bc you can't see problems, it does not mean all is okay. Dental pain/issues are rarely visible. Ever have a cavity? Did you see it, or just feel the pain...? Same in dogs.

And if there is gas, you really do need to change the diet. Humans/dogs/animals can have gas when something is irritating the GI system and can't digest easily. As you know, gas/bloating can be very uncomfortable and it'd be no different for dogs. So, I'd be changing the diet asap.

I feed raw and love it. I'd recommend you either feed pre-made like Primal or similar...or, get a mix where where you just add whatever raw meat to the supplementation/vitamin packet - so that it's balanced; like Know Better Pet Food or similar.

[Veemo]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

If the mouth odor is really this bad, you truly need to get to a vet asap. Tooth pain can be excruciating - so please don't let this linger. Just bc you can't see problems, it does not mean all is okay. Dental pain/issues are rarely visible. Ever have a cavity? Did you see it, or just feel the pain...? Same in dogs.

And if there is gas, you really do need to change the diet. Humans/dogs/animals can have gas when something is irritating the GI system and can't digest easily. As you know, gas/bloating can be very uncomfortable and it'd be no different for dogs. So, I'd be changing the diet asap.

I feed raw and love it. I'd recommend you either feed pre-made like Primal or similar...or, get a mix where where you just add whatever raw meat to the supplementation/vitamin packet - so that it's balanced; like Know Better Pet Food or similar.

Thank you for your concern regarding his teeth. However he went to the vet in April with his foster mom, and his health and teeth were checked out and given a good bill of health. I actually think I may have found out why his teeth were stinking...
I spent a good 10 minutes scrubbing his teeth last night, really getting into every groove I could reach. I then used the dental pads and wiped all over his teeth and gums thoroughly. So far, he's had normal smelling breath all day, even after his meals! I'm wondering if maybe I wasn't brushing well enough and some of his food just sat in his mouth for weeks, basically rotting. Because I'm smelling his mouth now and I smell nothing. I'm going to see how it goes for the next week. If it comes back, then it's probably diet related. If not though... maybe it was just a bunch of junk stuck in his teeth.

I do agree though, I've gotta change his diet. I'll be eliminating all the veggies aside from carrots to see if it helps with his gas. I'll also leave out the yogurt for a bit and see if I notice any difference. I've looked into the premade foods but honestly they're just out of budget for me. I prefer making my own since I can monitor what I put in it and for me, it's much more budget friendly. I've just got to play around and find a diet that works better for him!

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Veemo

Thank you for your concern regarding his teeth. However he went to the vet in April with his foster mom, and his health and teeth were checked out and given a good bill of health. I actually think I may have found out why his teeth were stinking...
I spent a good 10 minutes scrubbing his teeth last night, really getting into every groove I could reach. I then used the dental pads and wiped all over his teeth and gums thoroughly. So far, he's had normal smelling breath all day, even after his meals! I'm wondering if maybe I wasn't brushing well enough and some of his food just sat in his mouth for weeks, basically rotting. Because I'm smelling his mouth now and I smell nothing. I'm going to see how it goes for the next week. If it comes back, then it's probably diet related. If not though... maybe it was just a bunch of junk stuck in his teeth.

I do agree though, I've gotta change his diet. I'll be eliminating all the veggies aside from carrots to see if it helps with his gas. I'll also leave out the yogurt for a bit and see if I notice any difference. I've looked into the premade foods but honestly they're just out of budget for me. I prefer making my own since I can monitor what I put in it and for me, it's much more budget friendly. I've just got to play around and find a diet that works better for him!

I understand about the pre-made, however, there are dry mixes out there that provide the needed *balance* (ie, "RDA's") for a dog's diet and supplementation needs - and then all you add is the raw meat yourself.

I use this one: https://www.knowbetterpetfood.com/node/120 -- you can do the trial size if you want to try it.

Yeah, I'd cut out veg too. Do keep in mind that carrots can cause loose stools in many dogs, so they could be contributing to his issues...

Best of luck!

[Teegy]

That is a lot of veg and fruit what are the ratios of food you are giving. I won't comment further until I hear more about the balance of the diet

[Veemo]

Originally Posted by Teegy

That is a lot of veg and fruit what are the ratios of food you are giving. I won't comment further until I hear more about the balance of the diet

He usually only gets one added veggie with his meat portions, which is mainly greenbeans, sweet potato, or chickpeas. Ratio wise, it's 3/4 meat, 1/4 veggies. However, I put some carrots in with food processor and mix it into the meat so he does get about 2 portions of veggie per meal. He doesn't get fruit often, only when I'm eating some and give him a few bites, or I'll cut up some older apples and feed off those to him. At the most, it's a spoonful or so of fruit. He's been off greenbeans and all fruit though for over a week (I ran out of everything so he's been off them for a bit) but the only veggies he's getting his carrots and peas, which I just mixed in with the meat. He's still pretty gassy and his breath begins to stink a day or two after I brush his teeth, so I still think his diet is messing with him. I'll be switching him to 100% pure meat diet once I finish his last batch of food and see if that resolves the gas and breathe.

[Teegy]

Just make sure to be adding liver as 5% of his diet and 80% muscle meat. Carrots and leafy greens puréed and added are great, kelp, spirulina and oily fish. Stop with the chick peas. They could be your gas issue

[Teegy]

How much bone %

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Veemo

Thank you for your concern regarding his teeth. However he went to the vet in April with his foster mom, and his health and teeth were checked out and given a good bill of health. I actually think I may have found out why his teeth were stinking...
I spent a good 10 minutes scrubbing his teeth last night, really getting into every groove I could reach. I then used the dental pads and wiped all over his teeth and gums thoroughly. So far, he's had normal smelling breath all day, even after his meals! I'm wondering if maybe I wasn't brushing well enough and some of his food just sat in his mouth for weeks, basically rotting. Because I'm smelling his mouth now and I smell nothing. I'm going to see how it goes for the next week. If it comes back, then it's probably diet related. If not though... maybe it was just a bunch of junk stuck in his teeth.

I do agree though, I've gotta change his diet. I'll be eliminating all the veggies aside from carrots to see if it helps with his gas. I'll also leave out the yogurt for a bit and see if I notice any difference. I've looked into the premade foods but honestly they're just out of budget for me. I prefer making my own since I can monitor what I put in it and for me, it's much more budget friendly. I've just got to play around and find a diet that works better for him!

April was some time ago in the world of small dogs and dental issues. Some of them actually need dentals every six months. I encourage you to have your vet check his teeth again if this problem continues. Usually bad breath is dental related...although it also can be due to illnesses such as renal disease.

[brunojones345]

Probably because of raw diet your yorkie develop a health condition that I'm not sure of so better to bring your dear yorkie to your nearest vet. Probably the vet will do some test of will check his gums and teeth.

[Teegy]

Veemo check out Rodney Habib or Lew Olson both are nutritionists and have lots of information on balanced diet. They both have Facebook pages. Lee's page is called K9nutition Rodney also has a page called planet paws

[mimimomo]

Originally Posted by Veemo

Thank you for your concern regarding his teeth. However he went to the vet in April with his foster mom, and his health and teeth were checked out and given a good bill of health. I actually think I may have found out why his teeth were stinking...
I spent a good 10 minutes scrubbing his teeth last night, really getting into every groove I could reach. I then used the dental pads and wiped all over his teeth and gums thoroughly. So far, he's had normal smelling breath all day, even after his meals! I'm wondering if maybe I wasn't brushing well enough and some of his food just sat in his mouth for weeks, basically rotting. Because I'm smelling his mouth now and I smell nothing. I'm going to see how it goes for the next week. If it comes back, then it's probably diet related. If not though... maybe it was just a bunch of junk stuck in his teeth.

I do agree though, I've gotta change his diet. I'll be eliminating all the veggies aside from carrots to see if it helps with his gas. I'll also leave out the yogurt for a bit and see if I notice any difference. I've looked into the premade foods but honestly they're just out of budget for me. I prefer making my own since I can monitor what I put in it and for me, it's much more budget friendly. I've just got to play around and find a diet that works better for him!

Yes to the bolded...mine eat premade raw food & Princess sometimes gets food stuck way in the back, on top. I brush their teeth every night & sometimes, tiny pieces of food comes out on the toothbrush.
Yes it stinks bad!

If you take a really good look inside his mouth, you'll learn to see where food tends to get stuck. You can then pay more attention there when brushing.

[Veemo]

I've been experimenting for the past 2 weeks now (sorry for not replying, I've been going crazy with finals) but I do have some results.

I've eliminated all veggies/fruits from his diet aside from the carrots, and his gas is definitely better... he still has bouts of it here and there but it's definitely not as bad as before, so I'm thinking the veggies may have been contributing... I think I also know what may also be causing the gas... I think it may be the tripe. He never had horrible gas before I switched him to tripe as his main source of organ meat. I'm going to assume that just goes hand in hand... but I'm also wondering if that may contribute to his stinky breathe. If any of you guys have smelled tripe, you will know how awful it smells lol. It could be one or the other, but there definitely is a change in his gassiness. It's now only a few times a week where I smell that he has any, which is a change from everyday.

The breath is still a problem though despite his diet change. If I brush them really well, his breathe stays clean smelling for 2-3 days but slowly comes back smelling like a fart again. I'm just wondering if it's still the food piling up in his mouth or if it really is gum/teeth related. I started giving him the greenie chews also every other day, plus cracking down on the brushing. I'll be going home this weekend so I can schedule an appointment if this continues to persist. I'll look at everything everyone has recommended though and try everything out! There is definitely an improvement though, as his breathe doesn't stink nearly as bad as it did, and after good brushing, can go days without stinking. It still stinks but is definitely not as intense as before.

Thank you again everyone for the replies. If you have any other info for me, I'm all ears! I'll be around now more, since my schedule is slowly calming down again haha. And I'll call my vet back at home when considering to bring him in for an appointment.

[Veemo]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

Yes to the bolded...mine eat premade raw food & Princess sometimes gets food stuck way in the back, on top. I brush their teeth every night & sometimes, tiny pieces of food comes out on the toothbrush.
Yes it stinks bad!

If you take a really good look inside his mouth, you'll learn to see where food tends to get stuck. You can then pay more attention there when brushing.

That is really what I'm thinking too since he gets ground meat... and I've read that's a major problem people run across. Over the christmas break, I think I will just feed him chunks of meat for a week or two to see if there's any difference in smell. That way, there's less things likely to get stuck inside his teeth. I was talking to my mom about this the other day actually, since our other dogs tend to be gassy too and have stinky breathe on different days. May the food is getting stuck in their mouths, but since they get bones more often and bigger bones to chew, they have a easier time getting it unstuck? Because their breathe isn't constant stink, only a day or two, whereas Stuart has it all the time unless I brush his teeth. Perhaps it's easier for food to get stuck in his mouth since he's got such a tiny mouth, being only 6 lbs and all.