corn, and generally grain in dog food

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I know raw feeders must feel like so many people just don't understand. But there is a flip side. Those of us who generally support large, corn loving companies also don't get much love.

The bottom line is feed what you believe to be best because if something goes wrong you know you did your best for your dog.

I have no idea where this idea about vets recommending inferior food so that they see animals more is coming from. But I do find it to be an unfair assumption. I'm sure a handful have less than pure intentions when dealing with clients. However, that is not the majority.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I know raw feeders must feel like so many people just don't understand. But there is a flip side. Those of us who generally support large, corn loving companies also don't get much love.

The bottom line is feed what you believe to be best because if something goes wrong you know you did your best for your dog.

I have no idea where this idea about vets recommending inferior food so that they see animals more is coming from. But I do find it to be an unfair assumption. I'm sure a handful have less than pure intentions when dealing with clients. However, that is not the majority.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I could not agree more. I don't tell anyone what to feed their pups and quite frankly I don't understand all of this stuff about mean and catty comments.

This thread started out as a discussion on grains in kibble. I for one, use such foods and like to dispell the myths about kibble as much as I can.

Yup! There are such myths about all the feeding types and they do nothing but polarize us...so I think it's important that we all try to dispel these myths when they come up.

I hate to see people come down on kibble. Because hello? Kibble is real food. It's real food that's been dried and processed (not a bad word!) down to a usable and safe form for dogs and their owners...it's still REAL food.

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I know raw feeders must feel like so many people just don't understand. But there is a flip side. Those of us who generally support large, corn loving companies also don't get much love.

The bottom line is feed what you believe to be best because if something goes wrong you know you did your best for your dog.

I have no idea where this idea about vets recommending inferior food so that they see animals more is coming from. But I do find it to be an unfair assumption. I'm sure a handful have less than pure intentions when dealing with clients. However, that is not the majority.

I actually never feel like others don't understand....I know lots of raw feeders on here, so I never feel like the understanding isn't there. I just see people who don't agree with raw feeding - which is totally fine (but I feel they understand raw feeding, usually; but there are those who make opinions without even learning about it, and *that* is annoying as heck).

As far as vets wanting their clients to eat kibble so dogs are more sick? No way. Pretty sure that those whose *dream* it is to be a vet (such as EllieMay) don't dream about making dogs ill.

[mimimomo]

Well, I feed both...kibble & premade raw. Not @ the same time, for different meals, but Mimi & Turbo decided to turn their noses up on raw. Don't know why, they loved it! I like the idea of the health benefits of eating raw, it's a natural diet w/all the essential amino acids that they can easily digest. Since they won't touch it anymore, I'm moistening their kibble & adding unsalted sardines or poached unsalted salmon, anything 'fresh' as a topper. Oh my how their hair shines! I am considering home cooking w/Balance IT...it's just a matter of doing it. Trying to find some recipes that will be good for all 4 fur butts, already printed out some recipes.

For those of you that didn't try raw...why knock it if you haven't tried it?

[MauiGirl]

Although I don't usually follow the big dog food debate threads, I have found this one to be particularly interesting.

What I like the most is that some of the members I have the highest respect for are able to share what they chose to feed their pups, yet encourage other members to "find their own" best food for their pups needs.

The attitude of "this works for me", is so much more helpful than "my food is better than your food".

I am so lucky that after years of trying different things I have found one great kibble that all 4 of my pups love, it works for my Tiki with MVD, Meika who is a little overweight, Kayla and Karlee who have tiny mouths & teeth; all have perfect lil poops, no pickiness, no vomiting, lots of energy. For the last year, all 4 are thriving, and that is all I can ask for.

Bottom line is each owner needs to find their own perfect food.

[Teegy]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I totally agree with this and there will continue to be recalls until we get some regulations on these company's who just want to get in on the new pet fad.

I wouldn't call feeding the raw diet a fad, but companies do need to make sure if they are going to start a raw feeding business, that they know their stuff and are able to educate their customers too. There are tens of thousands of pet owners across the world that have always only fed raw. There are a ton of breeders out there doing it too. What gets my goat is all this hullaballoo about how unhealthy it is. It's like anything, you find a good vet and nutritionist, an experienced mentor and you learn to do it properly.
Processed dog food was invented in the US out of convenience, it never existed before then.

This was an article I found a long while back.
Raw vs Kibble diet, German Shepherd dogs, Tehillah German Shepherds

I do agree what works for your dogs, works for your dogs.
My friends Yorkie has a complete immune system fail and her body cannot absorb calcium and animal protein any longer. Her vet special orders some soy food, likely the cornstarchy one mentioned earlier, and she needs vitamin shots too. She was attacked by a neighbours shepherd and shaken like a rag doll, hours of surgery later, but her immune system took a severe hit after that.

[Teegy]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

Well, I feed both...kibble & premade raw. Not @ the same time, for different meals, but Mimi & Turbo decided to turn their noses up on raw. Don't know why, they loved it! I like the idea of the health benefits of eating raw, it's a natural diet w/all the essential amino acids that they can easily digest. Since they won't touch it anymore, I'm moistening their kibble & adding unsalted sardines or poached unsalted salmon, anything 'fresh' as a topper. Oh my how their hair shines! I am considering home cooking w/Balance IT...it's just a matter of doing it. Trying to find some recipes that will be good for all 4 fur butts, already printed out some recipes.

For those of you that didn't try raw...why knock it if you haven't tried it?

I'm moving in with you, can you homecook for me too

[Teegy]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

That made me laugh out loud seriously not all vets are out for your money and its a shame you feel that way considering how long they have to go to school....... Also if dogs weren't effected by salmonella then they would have the recalls and dogs wouldn't be getting sick by the recalled rood and treats

I don't feel that way, it's a fact, they have to pay for school somehow and they do make money by pushing the foods. The front of my former vet's entire surgery was dedicated to Hills and Medi-cal food. No one said dogs don't get affected by salmonella, I believe what was said they have a better digestive system that is capable of handling more harsh bacteria than you and I. And the healthier the dogs immune system, the more capable they are of fighting an attack of bad bacterium.

[mimimomo]

Originally Posted by Teegy

I'm moving in with you, can you homecook for me too

Haha! I'm lucky they'll eat my cooking

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Teegy

I wouldn't call feeding the raw diet a fad, but companies do need to make sure if they are going to start a raw feeding business, that they know their stuff and are able to educate their customers too. There are tens of thousands of pet owners across the world that have always only fed raw. There are a ton of breeders out there doing it too. What gets my goat is all this hullaballoo about how unhealthy it is. It's like anything, you find a good vet and nutritionist, an experienced mentor and you learn to do it properly.
Processed dog food was invented in the US out of convenience, it never existed before then.

This was an article I found a long while back.
Raw vs Kibble diet, German Shepherd dogs, Tehillah German Shepherds

I do agree what works for your dogs, works for your dogs.
My friends Yorkie has a complete immune system fail and her body cannot absorb calcium and animal protein any longer. Her vet special orders some soy food, likely the cornstarchy one mentioned earlier, and she needs vitamin shots too. She was attacked by a neighbours shepherd and shaken like a rag doll, hours of surgery later, but her immune system took a severe hit after that.

I wasn't talking about raw food if you looked at what I was quoting you would see I was talking about all the holistic brands of dog food coming out of the wood work yet lots of them being recalled. Not everything is an attack on raw food......... You will find many who say raw is unhealthy and you will find the same amount who don't feel that way and yes I could post many articles for my point of view but that is going to be pointless because you to could post many articles with your point of view. I feel the cons out weigh the pros for me and my dog.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Teegy

I don't feel that way, it's a fact, they have to pay for school somehow and they do make money by pushing the foods. The front of my former vet's entire surgery was dedicated to Hills and Medi-cal food. No one said dogs don't get affected by salmonella, I believe what was said they have a better digestive system that is capable of handling more harsh bacteria than you and I. And the healthier the dogs immune system, the more capable they are of fighting an attack of bad bacterium.

I can not speak for Canada but I can speak for the USA and it takes many years of schooling and hard work to become a vet and people are not doing it to just make dogs sick and make money of of them that is absolutely ridiculous. There are corrupt people in everything but a few should not spoil the bunch. I feel bad for you and although I do not wish bad things upon you and your dogs but maybe one day you will need a vet badly and then you will understand the respect and need for vets. My vet does EVERYTHING she can to help Callie not to make her sick.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Teegy

My vet published a book explaining the causes why animals get sick and how switching to a natural balanced diet and removing stresses actually helps to heal them. Kibble takes 14 to 24 hours for a dogs system to digest and often organs are working overtime to break it down. Whereas with an organic natural diet, the body processes it in 4 to 5 hours, absorbing much of it as nutrients and water and produce smaller, less stinky stools as their is less waste. Rotating protein sources allows for a good balanced diet. A good balanced diet leads to a good healthy immune system which can fight off parasites worms and infections much better than an animal with a challenged immune system that stressed.

Originally Posted by Teegy

Like I mentioned Loved to Dream, a lot of these research results that I've seen against raw feeding were sponsored by large food conglomerates. Also the vet association don't want to see your dogs so completely healthy that you have no need for them. You'll notice that the recalls are mainly from the large companies that make processed foods.

You talk of other vets who don't want to see our dogs completely healthy, and yet you own vet has a vested interested in a "natural diet." There may be lots of good things about a raw diet, but arguing it's the best and only your vet knows the truth, makes me believe you need to do more research. There are pros and cons to any diet you select.

[Britster]

I'm someone that has kind of 'come from the other side'. You'd see posts from me not too long ago similar to Teegy. Now that I've made myself more knowledgeable and done more research, I've become very in the middle.

Tbh, I don't think raw is all it's cracked up to be. I used to think it was "the best" even though I never fed it. But really, I've come to the conclusion that all dogs are going to be different and do better/worse on different things.

I've seen some very gorgeous athletic on Purina, RC, and Eukanuba. I've also seen some really crappy looking dogs on Orijen and EVO and vice versa. And I am sure and know that some dogs do amazing on raw. But I've browsed enough dog forums through the years and I have seen some very scary advice regarding raw. People who come on and complain of their dogs hair falling out, hotspots, losing weight rapidly, loose bloody stool and told it's 'normal at first'. And 'oh, it's just a detox'. And basically just scary stuff in general. To be honest, salmonella is the least of my worries. I know that dogs can get it, but they can from kibble as well. It's other things that concern me (such as properly balancing, choking hazards, teeth hazards, etc). Not to mention, I'm pretty certain dogs of the past weren't eating raw the way raw is being fed today. They probably weren't eating kibble either but I doubt they were all getting 100% raw meat diets. Meat is expensive and has been a bit of a luxury for human consumption. The dogs were probably getting the crap that was leftover. And a lot of that was definitely corn mush and whatever other scraps were leftover.

Raw (PMR or BARF) is just not something I'm comfortable with, and have no desire to feed, and I used to feel bad about it, once I joined internet forums -- it just seemed this was "THE BEST" and you were inferior if you did not feed raw. A lot of things are spoken repeatedly like a gospel and then people just start to believe it, including myself. It USED to be as simple to me as suggesting to folks: "look for no by-products, first 3-4 ingredients being meat, no corn, wheat, or soy" without ever even paying attention to where the food was being manufactured, company history, quality control, testing involved, etc.

I do think fresh foods are important and going to be healthier. I think, in general, eating the same kibble day by day is maybe not ideal, and if you have a healthy dog, I would always recommend adding some fresh meats now and then, or even the 95% canned foods. I always give Jackson some fresh meat a few times a week, chicken leftovers, or even eggs, etc. But certainly don't think eating kibble is "death nuggets" either.

So yeah, I'm kind of 'meh' about the whole thing. I don't care if people feed raw or don't, I think it will work well for some dogs and not others, just as certain kibbles work better for dogs than others. In the end, I think more importantly is genetics, lifestyle, exercise, physical condition, when or if you spay/neuter, and vaccinations (less of them). I would never judge those who feel raw is best, I think it's great if you have a dog that does wonderful on it and it's what you feel is best. I think some advice that is spouted around on the internet is VERY scary though. That's my biggest fear is people that don't know what they're doing and messing their dog up unnecessarily.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Teegy

I don't feel that way, it's a fact, they have to pay for school somehow and they do make money by pushing the foods. The front of my former vet's entire surgery was dedicated to Hills and Medi-cal food. No one said dogs don't get affected by salmonella, I believe what was said they have a better digestive system that is capable of handling more harsh bacteria than you and I. And the healthier the dogs immune system, the more capable they are of fighting an attack of bad bacterium.

I cannot speak to the motives of your former vet. All I can say is that I use a regular vet and also specialists.....they DO have Hill's foods ... and others...but they are all prescription foods that save pet's lives. Selling that food is not paying for their education in spite of what you believe.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by Teegy

[COLOR="Red"]I don't feel that way, it's a fact, they have to pay for school somehow and they do make money by pushing the foods.

In my 40+ years of owning dogs, I have never once had a vet push a particular food on me. Quite the contrary. I've had a couple even recommend a couple of homecooked recipes when we going through Rhett's tummy issues and pancreatitis with another dog.