corn, and generally grain in dog food

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by IDPiper

When I talked about freezing I did say, "other bacteria" because I know that freezing does not kill salmonella.

Perhaps you do, but many people do not. I did not quote you...I simply shared information that might help others understand that salmonella is a risk in raw foods.

[Teegy]

IDPiper, raw feeder here. Most studies done on the bad things about raw feeding are sponsored by kibble companies, all the ones I've seen anyway.
You will see a lot of mumbo and some jumbo about germs and salmonella and the danger to humans.
When you handle raw meat for yourself, you clean up right, so you do the same with your dog food. Dogs also don't have the issues with salmonella etc as we do as their stomach acid makeup differs from ours. My boys food is all kept in the freezer and served to them frozen, except the premade ground which is kept on their shelf in the fridge.
The many friends and associates of mine who have had issues in their dogs with allergies and with me pancreatitis, who have switched to raw feeding, couldn't be happier and I believe my dogs to be happier too. Eating raw weird shaped meat and bones (not weight bearing) stimulates their minds and they learn to hold the meat and chew, hence lovely clean teeth.
You are always going to run into conflicting issues when discussing raw feeding as I have personally discovered, especially when it exists that many folk are brand sensitive and loyal and believe everything their vets tell them. Not their fault or their vets as vets also have limited nutritional training provided by the dog food companies.
You can PM me any time you like

[Teegy]

Yahoo Groups
great raw feeding group on yahoo

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Teegy

IDPiper, raw feeder here. Most studies done on the bad things about raw feeding are sponsored by kibble companies, all the ones I've seen anyway.
You will see a lot of mumbo and some jumbo about germs and salmonella and the danger to humans.
When you handle raw meat for yourself, you clean up right, so you do the same with your dog food. Dogs also don't have the issues with salmonella etc as we do as their stomach acid makeup differs from ours. My boys food is all kept in the freezer and served to them frozen, except the premade ground which is kept on their shelf in the fridge.
The many friends and associates of mine who have had issues in their dogs with allergies and with me pancreatitis, who have switched to raw feeding, couldn't be happier and I believe my dogs to be happier too. Eating raw weird shaped meat and bones (not weight bearing) stimulates their minds and they learn to hold the meat and chew, hence lovely clean teeth.
You are always going to run into conflicting issues when discussing raw feeding as I have personally discovered, especially when it exists that many folk are brand sensitive and loyal and believe everything their vets tell them. Not their fault or their vets as vets also have limited nutritional training provided by the dog food companies.
You can PM me any time you like

Hmmm seems strange that it's mumbo jumbo when most vets are against it and vet associations who have done research on it to are against it. Salmonella does to very much effect dogs many many get sick by the company's who have had recalls because of it. Letting them eat raw using there paws also is another thing they can spread many of the germs and bacteria where ever they step and touch which can not only harm them but people and children. Yes humans can wash there hands after messing with raw food but are dogs getting there face and hands washed with antibacterial soap every time they mess with it?

[Teegy]

Originally Posted by IDPiper

Agree to disagree!

There are a lot of raw feeders out there that have been feeding raw for the life of their dogs and have never had a problem. If this is such a huge issue then why do you not see more evidence of it? You see more evidence of dogs dying from consuming processed foods all the time. That doesn't make a case for the safety of processed foods vs. raw IMO.

My vet published a book explaining the causes why animals get sick and how switching to a natural balanced diet and removing stresses actually helps to heal them. Kibble takes 14 to 24 hours for a dogs system to digest and often organs are working overtime to break it down. Whereas with an organic natural diet, the body processes it in 4 to 5 hours, absorbing much of it as nutrients and water and produce smaller, less stinky stools as their is less waste. Rotating protein sources allows for a good balanced diet. A good balanced diet leads to a good healthy immune system which can fight off parasites worms and infections much better than an animal with a challenged immune system that stressed.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by Teegy

IDPiper, raw feeder here. Most studies done on the bad things about raw feeding are sponsored by kibble companies, all the ones I've seen anyway.
You will see a lot of mumbo and some jumbo about germs and salmonella and the danger to humans.
When you handle raw meat for yourself, you clean up right, so you do the same with your dog food. Dogs also don't have the issues with salmonella etc as we do as their stomach acid makeup differs from ours. My boys food is all kept in the freezer and served to them frozen, except the premade ground which is kept on their shelf in the fridge.
The many friends and associates of mine who have had issues in their dogs with allergies and with me pancreatitis, who have switched to raw feeding, couldn't be happier and I believe my dogs to be happier too. Eating raw weird shaped meat and bones (not weight bearing) stimulates their minds and they learn to hold the meat and chew, hence lovely clean teeth.
You are always going to run into conflicting issues when discussing raw feeding as I have personally discovered, especially when it exists that many folk are brand sensitive and loyal and believe everything their vets tell them. Not their fault or their vets as vets also have limited nutritional training provided by the dog food companies.
You can PM me any time you like

It's incorrect to say that dogs do not get ill from Salmonella. Think about it; if dogs don't get Salmonella, why would dog food and treats be recalled when found to be contaminated with it?

Salmonella Infection in Dogs | petMD

Untitled Document

Salmonella Food Poisoning in Dogs


Overview of Salmonellosis: Salmonellosis: Merck Veterinary Manual

[Teegy]

Like I mentioned Loved to Dream, a lot of these research results that I've seen against raw feeding were sponsored by large food conglomerates. Also the vet association don't want to see your dogs so completely healthy that you have no need for them. You'll notice that the recalls are mainly from the large companies that make processed foods.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by Teegy

Like I mentioned Loved to Dream, a lot of these research results that I've seen against raw feeding were sponsored by large food conglomerates. Also the vet association don't want to see your dogs so completely healthy that you have no need for them. You'll notice that the recalls are mainly from the large companies that make processed foods.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Teegy

Like I mentioned Loved to Dream, a lot of these research results that I've seen against raw feeding were sponsored by large food conglomerates. Also the vet association don't want to see your dogs so completely healthy that you have no need for them. You'll notice that the recalls are mainly from the large companies that make processed foods.

That's it...a conspiracy. SMH

[gemy]

I really dis-like some of what goes on in these threads. My experience with kibble with my first male, I have shared before, he was fine up until about 11 months old, then wow diarrehea, I switched to two diff other kibble brands again top name and same thing, okay for two weeks then liquid diarrehea. In desperation I changed to raw. And it has worked for 6+ years for him. If as sometimes happen when I travel and can't get to raw or homecooked, and have to feed 2lbs of kibble a day, now on the third or fourth day he has diarrehea of the very loose kind. Obviously something disagreed with him in the kibble, that is not present in the raw and or home cooked meals.

When Zoey got sick, I had to switch fully to home made, as the vet hospitals were going to institute some pretty stringent handling requirements of her. When Zoey got sick again with cancer I maintained the home cooked as I knew her immune system was compromised and I did not want to stress it further. Neither sickness had one lick of anything to do with feeding raw/or home cooked.

And yes home cooked or raw with bearded breeds I wash down the beard. It is just a lot cleaner and keeps their beards mat free. Home cooked or raw their stainless steel dishes are washed in very very hot water and soap twice per day - it only takes a few minutes. And for me personally I worry more about the paws outside especially in summer with free pesticide use, and in winter when the salt trucks are out, then if they chew a few raw bones a week. I wash paws a lot in summer (unless we are swimming that day), and daily in winter especially when the bloody salt trucks are out. Their retrieve toys are always washed in very hot soapy water every day that we use them.

Personally I love the links LadyJane and 107Barney provides, and the links of Teegy and other members.

Let us remember to recognize that we are as passionately dedicated to the health and well-being of our pets as every poster on this thread is.

For me it is quite obvious the number of kibble recalls every year. If you can home cook to a vet nutriontists diet plan, and or do a Raw Balanced Diet, why ever would you buy kibble? On the other hand there are dogs that do alright on these kibble meals, and some of the prescription diets I understand are very very effective for certain diseases.

Gawd knows these Yorkies only eat what 1/2 to 3/4 cup a day, how hard can it be to home cook? Try feeding two dogs who eat 4lbs a day, and then understand that it is a labour of gladly given love to feed my beasties a well balanced home cooked diet.

[Rhetts_mama]

Again, if feeding a raw or BARF diet works for your dog then great. But it's simply false to say that raw is categorically safer to feed because of the recalls of dry food. Since January of this year, there have been 5 recalls of commercially prepared raw foods. 2 from Bravo, 1 from Nature's Instinct, 1 from Steve's Real Food and 1 of The Honest Kitchen.

Nature's Variety Issues Voluntarily Recall of One Batch of Instinct® Raw Organic Chicken Formula for Dogs & Cats Due to Possible Health Risk

The Honest Kitchen Voluntarily Recalls Limited Lots Of Verve, ZealAnd Thrive Products Due To Possible Health Risk

Bravo! Recalls 2 lb Tubes of Chicken Blend-Raw Frozen Food Diet for Dogs and Cats (One Lot Code) Because of Possible Salmonella Health Risk

Bravo! Issues a Voluntary Recall for Three Raw Frozen Food Diet for Dogs and Cats Because of Possible Salmonella Health Risk

Steve?s Real Food Recalls Turducken Canine Recipe Patties Because of Posssible Health Risk


As for the number of dogs that become sick from a true BARF diet or home cooking numbers, those won't ever be known since there is no centralized tracking method for it at this time.

The bottom line is that what ever you choose to feed, you still have to be vigilant.

[Teegy]

Gemy, I'm really fortunate that there are some great local places to get my raw and although pricier than kibble, the vet costs balance out. There is a wonderful woman in Whitby named Lori Dzingala, she's a breeder of Leonbergers and runs a raw feeding business. I came home with 24 pounds of mixed meats and it cost me $60. My friend who is new at raw feeding came along and got an abundance of great information from her. There is also a wonderful dialogue that ensues with customers who talk about previous health issues with their animals and just like you, they and I see the benefits of it.
No it's not a conspiracy, hahahaha, it's big business this pet food industry and animal welfare. Like I always say, GE can probably make you a lightbulb that will last a lifetime, but why would they, there's no money in that. The places I source my meat from are human grade. My Teegy and Tufty have no plaque or Tartar on their teeth and on a kibble diet brushing daily, Teegy had terrible build up happening on his back teeth. What I do have to deal with now that I didn't have before is Teegy whining at me because Tufty is so much slower at eating and when Teegy is done he watches him and moans at me.

[Teegy]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

So much for freezing killing salmonella:

A national outbreak of Salmonella enteritidis i... [N Engl J Med. 1996] - PubMed - NCBI

I wonder how much impact it had on the ice cream industry and if people stopped eating Ice cream, that's very scary, hopefully in the years since they have come up with a better means of transporting the mix.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Teegy

Like I mentioned Loved to Dream, a lot of these research results that I've seen against raw feeding were sponsored by large food conglomerates. Also the vet association don't want to see your dogs so completely healthy that you have no need for them. You'll notice that the recalls are mainly from the large companies that make processed foods.

Wow...

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by gemy

I really dis-like some of what goes on in these threads. My experience with kibble with my first male, I have shared before, he was fine up until about 11 months old, then wow diarrehea, I switched to two diff other kibble brands again top name and same thing, okay for two weeks then liquid diarrehea. In desperation I changed to raw. And it has worked for 6+ years for him. If as sometimes happen when I travel and can't get to raw or homecooked, and have to feed 2lbs of kibble a day, now on the third or fourth day he has diarrehea of the very loose kind. Obviously something disagreed with him in the kibble, that is not present in the raw and or home cooked meals.

When Zoey got sick, I had to switch fully to home made, as the vet hospitals were going to institute some pretty stringent handling requirements of her. When Zoey got sick again with cancer I maintained the home cooked as I knew her immune system was compromised and I did not want to stress it further. Neither sickness had one lick of anything to do with feeding raw/or home cooked.

And yes home cooked or raw with bearded breeds I wash down the beard. It is just a lot cleaner and keeps their beards mat free. Home cooked or raw their stainless steel dishes are washed in very very hot water and soap twice per day - it only takes a few minutes. And for me personally I worry more about the paws outside especially in summer with free pesticide use, and in winter when the salt trucks are out, then if they chew a few raw bones a week. I wash paws a lot in summer (unless we are swimming that day), and daily in winter especially when the bloody salt trucks are out. Their retrieve toys are always washed in very hot soapy water every day that we use them.

Personally I love the links LadyJane and 107Barney provides, and the links of Teegy and other members.

Let us remember to recognize that we are as passionately dedicated to the health and well-being of our pets as every poster on this thread is.

For me it is quite obvious the number of kibble recalls every year. If you can home cook to a vet nutriontists diet plan, and or do a Raw Balanced Diet, why ever would you buy kibble? On the other hand there are dogs that do alright on these kibble meals, and some of the prescription diets I understand are very very effective for certain diseases.

Gawd knows these Yorkies only eat what 1/2 to 3/4 cup a day, how hard can it be to home cook? Try feeding two dogs who eat 4lbs a day, and then understand that it is a labour of gladly given love to feed my beasties a well balanced home cooked diet.

For me it is obvious that the increase in recalls is directly related to the increase in "holistic companies" that seem to pop up overnight with their marketing ploys about no corn, no soy, blah blah blah... They make money by putting fear in the general pet population....not by producing foods that are safe for our pets.

I have been feeding kibble for more years than I wish to count and have never had a sick pup nor have I had to take a food back because it was recalled. Of course, I feed a food that has the dreaded ingredients. *shrug*
My pups are in good health with the exception of the ones who have issues that have nothing to do with food.