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Old 11-30-2010, 03:11 PM   #1
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Default Ready to change Tallulah's food - confused!

Tallulah's vet says she has been with me long enough to be settled down and I can now change her diet gradually. So I've been reading lots of threads on diet and I'm more confused than ever.

My vet recommended a premium food by Purina which frankly did not impress me much. I was looking at Acana puppy small breed -- it appears to be fish meal free -- are there other hidden preservatives that I need to watch out for? Would the puppy food be appropriate until she's a year old?

Tallulah doesn't each much kibble -- she much prefers moist food but I would like to get her eating more of the kibble to help keep her teeth cleaner. I don't see where Acana has a moist food. So do I moisten the kibble and hope she goes for it? Mix it with some other moist food -- if so which one?

The only thing I do know is that I need to change whatever food I give her gradually so as not to upset her little digestive system.

Why does this have to be so confusing? Why do dog food companies get away with using potentially harmful ingredients without disclosure because they were already in a ready-made ingredient that they can list generically (such as fish meal)? We just want to do the right thing for our pets. AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!

Sorry-- I just needed to vent.

I would sincerely appreciate any advice you have for T's diet -- she's just a little over 4 months old and I want to help her have the best start in life she can get.
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Old 11-30-2010, 08:55 PM   #2
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Vets usually recommend Science Diet, Purina or Iams, etc. It's sad really, but they often just don't know better or want to stick with what they've fed for years. Or they get a kick back for selling it.

I personally prefer grain-free. Dogs are carnivores and their DNA is 99.8% identical to that of their wolf ancestors, not much as changed. That .2% difference is accounted for in looks and size. Protein is a constant debate so just do some research on that. I would stay away from by-products, corn, wheat and soy for sure. Look for meat in the first 3-5 ingredients, preferably meal meals rather than just 'chicken' for example.

The ONLY company I 100% trust right now is Champion Pet Foods, makers of Orijen and Acana. Their website Champion Petfoods | Home has a very good video showing you WHERE their food is from, made, etc. However, the version of Acana you are looking at is not available in the US to my knowledge. The only Acana offered in the US is their grain-free's Grasslands, Pacifica and Prairie Harvest. Orijen offers a puppy formula as well which I would highly recommend! Lots of us are avid Acana/Orijen feeders and our dogs do fantastic on it.

I also like Nature's Variety, Fromm, Go! Endurance and Wellness CORE alot. Wellness is now available in Petsmart and Petco so it's sometimes a more convenient healthy option. Price-wise, Taste of the Wild is probably the cheapest grain-free food you will find. It's manufactured at Diamond Food Plant but I still think it's a really good food for the price.

Jackson has never really eaten just kibble by itself. Rarely anyways. So I rotate with different types of canned foods... I just pick up a few cans every week and I mix in a little bit of wet food w/ the kibble for his dinner. Don't be too concerned about the teeth on a mushy food, it's an old wives tale that crunchies clean teeth anyways. Really the binding agents in kibble when crunched can build up more than wet food often times. Good brushing and teeth care will help teeth. Cans range from NV Instinct to Wellness, etc. He does get the 'bad' stuff Cesar wet food about once every 2 weeks as somewhat of a 'treat' mixed in with his kibble. Breakfast is usually pre-made raw food (Stella and Chewy's or Primal) about 3-4x a week and he thrives. He has small little firm poopies, hehe, poops are less frequent, his coat is super shiny and I always get comments on it and is in perfect health.

Also, remember, higher calorie higher protein foods need to be fed less of. People can easily overfeed causing upset stomach, etc, and then blame it on a food when they were simply overfeeding. With that said, EVERY dog is different. What one dog does well on, another could do terrible on. So I'm just giving you my personal suggestions that have worked for US. It's all a matter of finding that right food for your little one!
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Last edited by Britster; 11-30-2010 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 05:20 AM   #3
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As usual, I completely agree with Brit's post.

I did want to add that the grain free Acana she mentioned is an All Life Stages food, so you can feed it from puppyhood through adulthood. Pippin is almost seven months and she's been raised on this food - she's a healthy, happy little bundle of terror. I love Acana....I feel like I've finally found THE food that works for me and all my munchkins (ages 7 months to 15 years).
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:21 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Britster View Post
Vets usually recommend Science Diet, Purina or Iams, etc. It's sad really, but they often just don't know better or want to stick with what they've fed for years. Or they get a kick back for selling it.

I personally prefer grain-free. Dogs are carnivores and their DNA is 99.8% identical to that of their wolf ancestors, not much as changed. That .2% difference is accounted for in looks and size. Protein is a constant debate so just do some research on that. I would stay away from by-products, corn, wheat and soy for sure. Look for meat in the first 3-5 ingredients, preferably meal meals rather than just 'chicken' for example.

The ONLY company I 100% trust right now is Champion Pet Foods, makers of Orijen and Acana. Their website Champion Petfoods | Home has a very good video showing you WHERE their food is from, made, etc. However, the version of Acana you are looking at is not available in the US to my knowledge. The only Acana offered in the US is their grain-free's Grasslands, Pacifica and Prairie Harvest. Orijen offers a puppy formula as well which I would highly recommend! Lots of us are avid Acana/Orijen feeders and our dogs do fantastic on it.

I also like Nature's Variety, Fromm, Go! Endurance and Wellness CORE alot. Wellness is now available in Petsmart and Petco so it's sometimes a more convenient healthy option. Price-wise, Taste of the Wild is probably the cheapest grain-free food you will find. It's manufactured at Diamond Food Plant but I still think it's a really good food for the price.

Jackson has never really eaten just kibble by itself. Rarely anyways. So I rotate with different types of canned foods... I just pick up a few cans every week and I mix in a little bit of wet food w/ the kibble for his dinner. Don't be too concerned about the teeth on a mushy food, it's an old wives tale that crunchies clean teeth anyways. Really the binding agents in kibble when crunched can build up more than wet food often times. Good brushing and teeth care will help teeth. Cans range from NV Instinct to Wellness, etc. He does get the 'bad' stuff Cesar wet food about once every 2 weeks as somewhat of a 'treat' mixed in with his kibble. Breakfast is usually pre-made raw food (Stella and Chewy's or Primal) about 3-4x a week and he thrives. He has small little firm poopies, hehe, poops are less frequent, his coat is super shiny and I always get comments on it and is in perfect health.

Also, remember, higher calorie higher protein foods need to be fed less of. People can easily overfeed causing upset stomach, etc, and then blame it on a food when they were simply overfeeding. With that said, EVERY dog is different. What one dog does well on, another could do terrible on. So I'm just giving you my personal suggestions that have worked for US. It's all a matter of finding that right food for your little one!
I have to say I saw the post and I immedietly thought, Brister, she will know.. And you were the first one to post! LOL.. Yes.. I follow your advice wholeheartedly,you know your stuff.

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Old 12-07-2010, 06:25 PM   #5
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My boys are on Acana.
I don't add wet food to it.
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:18 AM   #6
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taste of the wild offers both canned and dry, their pacific fish formula is lower in fat and protien then some of the other foods on the market. Its an all life stage grain free food, that's pretty inexpensive. They have also came out with a lamb based food according to their website but I havent been able to find it yet. If your are looking for a lower fat/protein high quality food I would suggest anything that is lamb based canned or wet. If your dog has digestive issues I would definitly stay away from any things super high in fat or protien as you may make her issue worsen. Brit, had some really good idea's and Acana is a awesome food.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:28 PM   #7
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My Mocha has sensitive stomach and cannot take just any food, even the premium Blue Buffalo gives him gas and soft stool. After several tries he finally settled on Orijen. He is doing great with that. Not only did the stomach issue went away, his coat looks great and no goo around eyes. I agree with Britster that Orijen is an excellent choice. I started him on Orijen puppy and switched to Adult when he turned one. However, there's also All Life Stages but I just like the smaller kibble of the puppy food at the beginning.

P.S. At the beginning I put Mocha on dog probiotics for his stomach, which worked great. After he did so well on Orijen, I slowly weaned him out of that.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boopster View Post
Tallulah's vet says she has been with me long enough to be settled down and I can now change her diet gradually. So I've been reading lots of threads on diet and I'm more confused than ever.

My vet recommended a premium food by Purina which frankly did not impress me much. I was looking at Acana puppy small breed -- it appears to be fish meal free -- are there other hidden preservatives that I need to watch out for? Would the puppy food be appropriate until she's a year old?

Britster is correct, of course ...a lot of vets recommend Purina or Science Diet. Both support veterinary schools, so it's what they know.

Tallulah doesn't each much kibble -- she much prefers moist food but I would like to get her eating more of the kibble to help keep her teeth cleaner. I don't see where Acana has a moist food. So do I moisten the kibble and hope she goes for it? Mix it with some other moist food -- if so which one?

I have been told that kibble doesn't actually help clean teeth (unless it's specifically designed to do so....some have a coating that is supposed to help with teeth), but that is a very common misconception....one I had in fact! Canned food is less processed and so is probably better for them! I feed kibble because it's more convenient...it's your choice. You can soak her kibble in water for ~20 min and see if she'll eat it then....it will plump up. Some dogs prefer a softer food, and there's nothing wrong with that! You could also mix kibble with a canned of you choosing....sometimes that will coax them into eating the kibble.

The only thing I do know is that I need to change whatever food I give her gradually so as not to upset her little digestive system.

(Good luck...mine picked all the new kibbles out and left the old ones!! Neither got any tummy upset from switching themselves straight to the new food, though. I guess it depends on the dog )

Why does this have to be so confusing? Why do dog food companies get away with using potentially harmful ingredients without disclosure because they were already in a ready-made ingredient that they can list generically (such as fish meal)? We just want to do the right thing for our pets. AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!

Sorry-- I just needed to vent.

I would sincerely appreciate any advice you have for T's diet -- she's just a little over 4 months old and I want to help her have the best start in life she can get.
(see RED above) She should probably be on a puppy food, or a food that is balanced for all life stages, puppies through adulthood (like Natural Balance, for example), until she is ~8 months old or so. If you DO go with a food that is balanced for all life stages, then in a few months you won't have to switch again, which would be a plus! There are a lot of differing opinions on going grain free....I'm almost certain I was told that you shouldn't go grain free in a puppy, but that it's up to you for an adult.

My personal favorite brand of food is Natural Balance, mostly because I feel they do a LOT for dogs with special needs. They have so many different formulations that meet so many different needs! I feed both my girls (a 2 1/2 yr old with liver disease...hepatic MVD, and a 5 1/2 month old puppy) Natural Balance Organic. It's formulated for all life stages, which made it SOOOO easy when the new puppy came home...no having to deal with separate foods! It meets the needs of my MVD dog (kinds of proteins, etc...) and is pesticide and GMO FREE, which is a huge plus in Bella's case, but is great for Maya too!

When it comes right down to it, there is NO RIGHT ANSWER! You just have to decide what's best for you and your baby, and what works for both of you too. I personally wouldn't feed Science Diet or Purina, but like I always say...millions of dogs have lived long healthy lives on those foods!!
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:44 PM   #9
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i wouldn't suggest kibble if the only reason you want it is to keep her teeth clean. As most have said above, the bad of most kibbles far out weighs the good! there is a lot of good advice above!

If you are at all interested in more information on feeding a raw diet i would be more than happy to offer some suggestions. i feed a Prey Model Raw diet meaning that dxter eats all raw meat, bodes and organs (as the poster above said...dogs and wolves are 99.8% the same in genetic make-up...their digestive systems work exactly the same and are designed to thrive on raw foods! but i wont get into too much detail here as i know its not for everyone. if you are interested, please let me know and i will be happy to help

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Old 12-09-2010, 06:22 AM   #10
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(see RED above) are a lot of differing opinions on going grain free....I'm almost certain I was told that you shouldn't go grain free in a puppy, but that it's up to you for an adult.
Can I ask you where you got this information? I'm currently feeding my puppies Solid Gold Hunchen flock puppy formula bc of its many good reviews, and I wasn't sure if I want to change to orijen on the next bag since everyone talks about how great it is. I am still hesistant on high protein diet because of the controversy, and like brister said, because it is easy to overfeed. I'm currently free-feeding them (and probably will, for the rest of their lives) and I don't have time to measure the right amount each day, so I'm not sure if they'll overeat and get sick.
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:26 AM   #11
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i wouldn't suggest kibble if the only reason you want it is to keep her teeth clean. As most have said above, the bad of most kibbles far out weighs the good! there is a lot of good advice above!

If you are at all interested in more information on feeding a raw diet i would be more than happy to offer some suggestions. i feed a Prey Model Raw diet meaning that dxter eats all raw meat, bodes and organs (as the poster above said...dogs and wolves are 99.8% the same in genetic make-up...their digestive systems work exactly the same and are designed to thrive on raw foods! but i wont get into too much detail here as i know its not for everyone. if you are interested, please let me know and i will be happy to help

Cheers,

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Is it still beneficial to feed them only on the weekends? I'd like to start on the raw diet but I'm not sure if there will be any benefits in feeding only a few times a week. I won't have time during the weekdays. Also, I don't want them to get picky with their kibbles.

From what I read so far, I just unfreeze the meat in the fridge overnight, then feed them cold on a plate and wash right away after 30 min right? and change the water after every meal as well?

Any comments will be appreciated~

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Old 12-09-2010, 08:49 AM   #12
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Can I ask you where you got this information? I'm currently feeding my puppies Solid Gold Hunchen flock puppy formula bc of its many good reviews, and I wasn't sure if I want to change to orijen on the next bag since everyone talks about how great it is. I am still hesistant on high protein diet because of the controversy, and like brister said, because it is easy to overfeed. I'm currently free-feeding them (and probably will, for the rest of their lives) and I don't have time to measure the right amount each day, so I'm not sure if they'll overeat and get sick.
I honestly can't remember....a little more than 2 yrs ago is when I did extensive research on foods. Bella was still a puppy, and I was trying to filter through all of the info I had read on YT. I ended up doing a LOT of research, and that's one of the things that really stuck with me, because at the time she was a puppy. Shortly after I did all that research (it literally couldn't have been more than a week or 2) I found out through her pre-spay bloodwork that she had a problem with her liver, which led to a whole lot MORE research.....and obviously, at that point our options were a lot more limited.
Because of that, I wouldn't switch to high protein, grain free until the pups were 8 months old. Beyond that, it really is a personal decision. My honest opinion is, my dogs at least aren't athletes. Going on brisk walks is the extent of their athleticism, so they don't need a high protein diet. Agility dogs and working dogs probably would really benefit from it though. Also, I've read a lot of differing opinions on whether dogs and their ancestors (wolves) ate grain, etc..., so that just boils down to what makes sense to you and what you're comfortable with. I know some dogs have underlying kidney issues that causes them to go into kidney failure when switched to grain free.....not ALL dogs, but some. For me, it's not worth the risk. I suppose I might be more comfortable going grain free (I certainly am not AGAINST it by any means...it's just a personal choice) if I had a complete work up done (including labs) to make sure there weren't any kidney issues at all beforehand. But, again, that isn't an option for us anyway, so luckily I don't have to make that decision anymore. I will say, I did entertain the option of doing the patties that you thaw for Bella before she was diagnosed, though, so I may have ended up doing it.

As you said, kibble is a LOT easier than any other way to feed. I free feed mine...they each have their own plates, and they're not allowed to eat of the other's plate. Bella leaves hers and eats when she feels like it...she's always been that way, and she looks and feels super healthy, so I know it has nothing to do with her MVD...it's just how she is. Maya on the other hand generally eats what you put on her plate, so I have a set amount that I will give her over the course of a day. Right now, I allow her to have quite a bit more than Bella eats because she's still a puppy. If she's acts like she's hungry, I give her more. Bella self regulates....she'll only eat a certain amount and then leave the rest, so I never have to worry about her overeating. I said all that to say, I free feed mine also, BUT I measure out each amount I put on their plates. It would be a lot harder with several puppies I imagine, and I don't think that's necessary. Measuring the amounts out allows me to know how much they're both eating each day, which it's important to me to know that so I know they're both ok.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:19 AM   #13
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Is it still beneficial to feed them only on the weekends? I'd like to start on the raw diet but I'm not sure if there will be any benefits in feeding only a few times a week. I won't have time during the weekdays. Also, I don't want them to get picky with their kibbles.

From what I read so far, I just unfreeze the meat in the fridge overnight, then feed them cold on a plate and wash right away after 30 min right? and change the water after every meal as well?

Any comments will be appreciated~
there are many different opinions about raw. to be honest, feeding prey model raw really isnt that difficult and doesn't take much time once you get the hang of it. i throw down a chicken leg (or lamb chop, etc) in the ealy afternoon and he usually finishes it by the evening. if there is anything left, i throw it away.

i use a feeding towel since dexter is afraid of plates (they make noises ) and i keep the same feeding towel for a few days before throwing it in the wash. i change dexters water once a day as usual.

raw meat is more dangerous to humans than it is dogs. there has been times where dexters meat sits on his towel for a few hours, then he eats it and he is fine. (he likes his meat warm.) when you think about it, in the wild, wolves dont always get to eat their meat within 30 mins of killing it and sometimes let it sit for days before coming back and finishing it off.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:21 AM   #14
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Thank you, everyone, for all the info. I clearly need to read a lot more because I thought I had decided but now I'm more confused than ever.

I'm going to go over all the info you guys have shared and will probably be back with more questions.
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Old 12-10-2010, 06:35 AM   #15
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Is it still beneficial to feed them only on the weekends? I'd like to start on the raw diet but I'm not sure if there will be any benefits in feeding only a few times a week. I won't have time during the weekdays. Also, I don't want them to get picky with their kibbles.

From what I read so far, I just unfreeze the meat in the fridge overnight, then feed them cold on a plate and wash right away after 30 min right? and change the water after every meal as well?

Any comments will be appreciated~
Yes, you will still see the benefits if you only feed raw meaty bones on the weekends. Although, once you get the hang of it , it doesn't take long to do the raw feeding.

I feed mine a chicken wing twice a week. They devour it! Even my 5 pound Chi tears into it like she's a rabid animal. There is never anything left after 30 mins! One thing to watch for is they will try to take it somewhere more comfortable (like the couch or the bed).

We feed ours Honest Kitchen with additional raw add-ins (meat, eggs, tripe) throughout the week and chicken wings for dinner on Saturday and Sunday. I started my Westie on this diet at 9 weeks old.
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