Best time to get FIRST wellness checkup & boosters??

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

You are not understanding what I am trying to say to you. Then entire process that you are going through to catch a little urine is just overkill. Do you not understand sterile technique? There is NOTHING sterile with the way that you are doing you collection. You could take the syringe and rinse it out and toss it into the draw and it would make a difference. It is total over kill.

Of course a doctor would tell you about risk. It is part of a consent to have the knowledge of all that could happen. That is medicine. When you have any procedure that is always a risk and you need be made aware of the possible risks. You should be told of ALL risks prior to make an INFORMED decision. Have you ever read your consent prior to any surgery? I'm talking human not animal. You could be having a hang nail removed and one of the risk could be death.

You way of thinking about thing that have to do with the medical profession is skewed. What you are just does not make sense to me.

Yep I have had surgery before not an idiot.

Why just because i do not agree with your way of thinking? What you do is working for you and what i do is working for me doesn't mean either is right or wrong. Your dogs are yours and my dogs are mine so feel free to do what you want to with yours and I will with mine.

You are not reading what i wrote. I get FREE SYRINGES AND BOTTLES FROM THE VET AND THEY ARE STERILE. Key word FREE.

would it make you feel better if i removed the word Sterile ?

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by dwerten

Yep I have had surgery before not an idiot.

Why just because i do not agree with your way of thinking? What you do is working for you and what i do is working for me doesn't mean either is right or wrong. Your dogs are yours and my dogs are mine so feel free to do what you want to with yours and I will with mine.

You are not reading what i wrote. I get FREE SYRINGES AND BOTTLES FROM THE VET AND THEY ARE STERILE. Key word FREE.

would it make you feel better if i removed the word Sterile ?

I love how you just changed the last sentence of your post. that was rude and uncalled for. it was totally unrelated to the discussion.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

You are not understanding what I am trying to say to you. Then entire process that you are going through to catch a little urine is just overkill. Do you not understand sterile technique? There is NOTHING sterile with the way that you are doing you collection. You could take the syringe and rinse it out and toss it into the draw and it would make a difference. It is total over kill.

Of course a doctor would tell you about risk. It is part of a consent to have the knowledge of all that could happen. That is medicine. When you have any procedure that is always a risk and you need be made aware of the possible risks. You should be told of ALL risks prior to make an INFORMED decision. Have you ever read your consent prior to any surgery? I'm talking human not animal. You could be having a hang nail removed and one of the risk could be death.

You way of thinking about thing that have to do with the medical profession is skewed. What you are just does not make sense to me.

and this last sentence was not rude?

sorry not going to be beaten into submission like some people were on here

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by dwerten

Yep I have had surgery before not an idiot.

Why just because i do not agree with your way of thinking? What you do is working for you and what i do is working for me doesn't mean either is right or wrong. Your dogs are yours and my dogs are mine so feel free to do what you want to with yours and I will with mine.

You are not reading what i wrote. I get FREE SYRINGES AND BOTTLES FROM THE VET AND THEY ARE STERILE. Key word FREE.

That is not what you said in the beginning. The question was ask how to collect a urine sample and this is what you said as if to stress is should be sterile. The sterility is not even a part of the equation. Like I said you could toss that syringe into a draw and reuse it 100 times and since you are not working in a sterile environment.

I've heard some people say they use a soup ladle to catch pee. It's all the same. Catch it in anything that you want and put it into any kind of container.

I'm not even talking about my dog or your dog. What I am trying to point out to you is that this is not a sterile catch. Only a cysto would be a sterile catch if that was what the aim for the urinalysis needed to be. I'm not even arguing the necessity of a cysto.

Then i have a sterile syringe and sterile bottle i suck it up put in bottle and seal then put in fridge until our appointment. I get the sterile bottle and syringe from vets office and i always keep a spare back up in case something is not right and i have to take in a fecal or a urine sample.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

That is not what you said in the beginning. The question was ask how to collect a urine sample and this is what you said as if to stress is should be sterile. The sterility is not even a part of the equation. Like I said you could toss that syringe into a draw and reuse it 100 times and since you are not working in a sterile environment.

I've heard some people say they use a soup ladle to catch pee. It's all the same. Catch it in anything that you want and put it into any kind of container.

I'm not even talking about my dog or your dog. What I am trying to point out to you is that this is not a sterile catch. Only a cysto would be a sterile catch if that was what the aim for the urinalysis needed to be. I'm not even arguing the necessity of a cysto.

I understand that jodi. I am fully aware of that. We can all agree the cysto is the most sterile sample but i do not care

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by dwerten

I understand that jodi. I am fully aware of that. We can all agree the cysto is the most sterile sample but i do not care

that is great that you don't care but please do not tell other people that its not necessary just because your vet said so.

it is necessary for certain things.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by kalina82

that is great that you don't care but please do not tell other people that its not necessary just because your vet said so.

it is necessary for certain things.

for what is it necessary that a free catch cannot tell you? I want to know as i asked this two weeks ago and LJ nor Ellie May could tell me other than a little more bacteria so what exactly will it tell you?

and it was not my vet as my vet wanted to do it. It was internal medicine specialist who has further education than a vet and Dr jean dodds who gets shipped urine from all over the world to test so I think she knows a little bit about it since she has been doing it for 40 years so not like i am coming up with this on my own

if you can come up with something those two professionals have not come up with i would be happy to listen as i prefer to provide the best care for my dogs since i go to mostly specialists now

and what i do not care about is a little extra bacteria big deal

why do they not put a needle in human bladders to test us for urinalysis

and why did you do a free catch below?

[Ellie May]

Original poster, PM one of us if you don't want to post in the middle of a urine collection debate and still have questions.

lol, the second urine collection debate in a week.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Original poster, PM one of us if you don't want to post in the middle of a urine collection debate and still have questions.

lol, the second urine collection debate in a week.

yep with still no intelligent answers lollll other than the vet told me to loll

[megansmomma]

Let me explain something to you. I have a background in the OR, when to school and learned sterile technique so that when you (as a human) comes into an OR for surgery there is a sterile protocol that is followed and adhered to. I could name all the bones in your body as I removed them one at a time~you know why? Because I was part of an organ procurment team. lolololllllll So please do not talk to me like I am uneducated moron! Your lack of basic knowledge is just ridiculous to someone who actually UNDERSTAND and can interpreter basic medical termonology! What is your medical background other then google?

[dwerten]

Jean just emailed me so I asked her again about cysto and here is her response. Yep she emailed me at 10:13 on a Sunday night. How many in the profession do that? Passion

Dear Deb: Purists say a cysto is “cleaner”, but mid-stream free catch is nearly always equivalent. Best Jean

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

Let me explain something to you. I have a background in the OR, when to school and learned sterile technique so that when you (as a human) comes into an OR for surgery there is a sterile protocol that is followed and adhered to. I could name all the bones in your body as I removed them one at a time~you know why? Because I was part of an organ procurment team. lolololllllll So please do not talk to me like I am uneducated moron! Your lack of basic knowledge is just ridiculous to someone who actually UNDERSTAND and can interpreter basic medical termonology! What is your medical background other then google?

lol the sites my friend are not GOOGLE they are petplace.com and peteducation.com go check it out as they are written by VETS. So I guess ann is dr google too as she posts these sites as well lollll At least I am in good company as she is in the medical profession too I understand

And since your background is not in veterinary medicine then I guess that makes us equals

btw I am still waiting for an intelligent answer to my questions

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by dwerten

Jean just emailed me so I asked her again about cysto and here is her response. Yep she emailed me at 10:13 on a Sunday night. How many in the profession do that? Passion

Dear Deb: Purists say a cysto is “cleaner”, but mid-stream free catch is nearly always equivalent. Best Jean

Even if it is almost equivalent, mid stream is still different than back of pee pad. One is free catch and the other is table top.

I honestly do not care what people do. All I want people to know is that cystos are sometimes the best choice for the test being done. And a mid stream sample is not necessarily a bad thing. It is just not a sterile technique.

There may be vets that don't like cystos, but many do and the labs that run these samples recommend them (and again, not all vets make money off of them, so it isn't a money thing).

I understand some are uncomfortable, but that shouldn't translate into making people feel like they are never necessary.

[kalina82]

Cystocentesis is done for a few reasons but we'll stick with just urinalysis'. If a UTI is suspected, a urinalysis and culture and sensitivity should be done. The C/S is best done from a sterile sample and the culture should be taken from a fresh, non-refrigerated sample. SO the only way to do this is by cysto.

Free catch samples do contain a lot more bacteria, not only from the non-sterile container/pee pad/floor/whatever it is collected from, but from the lower urinary tract system. the urine that goes thru the urethra and out of the penis/vagina is not an accurate representation of what is in the bladder.

When a cysto is done and a culture is taken any bacteria found on the petri dish is significant. everything used to take the sample was sterile therefore there was no contamination (unless there is a human error which is possible). sterile syringe with sterile needle -> sterile prep site ->sterile sample -> sterile culture swab -> sterile petri dish.

When a free catch is done there will be bacteria in it, and there could be multiple kinds of bacteria. its hard to say what bacteria came from within the bladder and how much of it was in the bladder if any.

Also, urine samples that are taken at home by free-catch and refrigerated can change by the time they get to the vet. refrigeration can cause glucose levels to drop, crystals to dissolve, clarity changes, and cell disintegration.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Even if it is almost equivalent, mid stream is still different than back of pee pad. One is free catch and the other is table top.

I honestly do not care what people do. All I want people to know is that cystos are sometimes the best choice for the test being done. And a mid stream sample is not necessarily a bad thing. It is just not a sterile technique.

There may be vets that don't like cystos, but many do and the labs that run these samples recommend them (and again, not all vets make money off of them, so it isn't a money thing).

I understand some are uncomfortable, but that shouldn't translate into making people feel like they are never necessary.

People should not be pressured into doing them either if the outcome is no different and as of yet I have not seen anything to make me believe otherwise. People should know they have a choice in what they are comfortable with.

We all do not have to agree and that is fine but I feel strongly about my opinion and will voice it just as you feel strongly about yours so people can hear both sides of the equation and not feel pressured to either side. Each owner should hear both sides and make an educated decision for their pet.

We can all agree to disagree at this point as you are not changing my mind and I am not changing yours. These are long time specialists I deal with not someone that just came out of vet school being told to do something in school a certain way.