Annual Vaccinactions - why are some still doing them?

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

This subject is a huge pet peeve of mine……I started looking into this about two years ago and I was shocked at the information that I found out about vets overvaccinating our pets. Dr. Dodds is not the only researcher fighting this, Dr Schultz is also….. Dr. B. Rogers and Dr. Pitcairn, Dr C. Loops and many, many, more vets are also voicing their objections to this practice. There are also many pet advocates trying to get the word out……This information is not new, many of these people who are vocal about this have been doing this for decades………

The three year recommendation is also too often for giving boosters. It was a *compromise* to appease the angry vets who are fearful of lost profits. Talk about ethical vets.....Shameful...... If you look at Dr. Dodds schedule she has no mention of boosters after the one year vaccines, this is also the same recommendation from all the other researchers. There is absolutely no scientific basis for boosters.

So you ask why are we still overvaccinating? We have allowed those in positions of authority to instill unnecessary fear in us; fear that if our animals are not religiously vaccinated, we are endangering their lives. Shame on all of us.

As a side note……..I was extremely surprised at the results of the poll regarding the use of combo vaccines. The use of combo vaccines is also not a recommended vaccine, they are not promoted by any researcher or advocate, yet most vets use them. This vaccine has many problems associated with its use……These are some of the problems with the use of combo vaccines…

*Their contents consist of a mixture of bacteria and viruses, several of which are not beneficial or needed.

*This powerful mixture overwhelms the immune system putting the dog at risks for developing chronic diseases, it also greatly increases the risks for adverse reactions.

*The components also compete with each other, which can result in neutralization or negation or can produce a poor antibody response.

*If your dog experiences a reaction to the combo shot, there is no way to determine which antigen caused the reaction and must be avoided in the future.

*If all this isn’t bad enough, the components are unnecessary for most adult dogs, the great majority of which have lifetime immunity to the important shots or have no need for other ingredients.

Combination shots are part of the unethical practice of over-vaccination of pets. They should have no place in your dog’s health care regimen. And vets who use them should have no place in your dog’s life. Please, speak up for the ones who can't......

I concur. It was a compromise. It is generally what I recommend to people though because they are too worried to go the other way (i.e Dodds). I don't vaccinate anymore except for rabies. Ellie is 8. She doesn't need them.

Giving them all in singles, in a perfect world maybe... I don't have a big problem with DHPP. When adding lepto or corona to that or giving something else the same day, then I say a big no. Generally a healthy dog will do fine with DHPP just like humans get whatever they are giving now together. It would take a lot to change this because more vet visits would be needed. I also have to wonder what these MLV vaccines are preserved with and if giving that two or three times instead of once is a good idea.

[jp4m2]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

well its a dang shame when they die of parvo because someone didnt prevent it

Just a side note......Dr. Dodds believes that 100% of the pups that contract parvo picked it up at the vets office........

Tell me this, if one of your pups was diagnosed later in life with thyroid disease, allergies, cancer, epilepsy, Immune-mediated hemolytic anemia (IMHA) and immune-mediated thrombocytopenia (ITP), liver failure etc. etc. would it ever occur to you that this just may be connected to the vaccines you administered to the pup?...... I doubt many breeders would ......

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by dwerten

Do vaccines come from different companies and are there some safer than others?

Can they be contaminated and reported by lot number to vets like say a recall on vaccines?

Yes and yes.

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by dwerten

check out my post below where i have titered for 5 plus years and a plumber came in to my home 2xs the week his puppy was in the vet for parvo. My dogs are fine. Every professional i called as i called ALOT loll told me do not worry they were vaccinated as puppies they will be fine - why? because they know once the puppy shots are done the dog is probably protected. They also told me at specialty hospital that parvo is EVERYWHERE. You can get it on you and bring it in to your home no matter where you live. My friends dog got parvo because she did not do puppy shots and took her dog hiking in the mountains and it was sad as she could not find a vet to take her and quarantine her but after running around all over finally found one and her dog lived.

The two examples are this puppy you stated and my friend is they did not have their puppy shots and the dogs need to have that to be protected. It is the dhpp after the one year booster that is in question on necessity

i know parvo is everywhere and i feel safer knowing my pets are protected

so what happens in ten years when people have stopped vaccinating regularly and there is a bigger problem with parvo and the new research says go back to vaccinating? are you just going to switch back because thats what they say to do?

sometimes these "new researches" are marketing scams..you just never know..like someone else said is it the scam to not vaccinate n have sick puppies and make money off the sick puppies? or is the scam over vaccinating and having sick puppies and making money? could the scam be to not vaccinate and de-populate all the dogs out there, so many in shelters and such...just like when they take a prescription drug that does multiple things but sell it for one thing at a time and just rename it three different times.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

i believe in doing the booster at 6 9 12 and sometimes 15 weeks..and then once a year.i do believe in it..thats what has been taught for years..and im old school if it aint broke dont fix it... for me its not broke..

no i dont follow new researches at all..one day something is good for you the next its not...i do what i know works for us...

It is good to hear the other side on this for me as sadly i have a dog that has auto immune disease and it all started after her puppy shots I never put two and two together until i started learning more about this stuff. My dog was perfectly fine prior to her rabies and puppy shots and then all heck broke loose she would not stop itching was a horrible mess and has been ever since she was six months old.

Allergies in dogs start from the age of 6 months (interesting after shots are done) and up to 3 years of age (after boosters are done yearly for awhile)

Also epilepsy in dogs starts to happen after the age of 3 years old (after vaccinating dogs many times possibly)

Cancer in sites of injection for vaccines

Also neurological conditions within months of vaccinations like Rorie who is a little over 1 year as well as many dogs with neurological conditions like my friends dog with gme. I asked her how long after her vaccinations did she get this and she said within a few months. Her dog was perfectly normal prior. GME is an autoimmune disease or it is tied to an infection disease.

I just think there are alot of coincidences here - could be way off base but trust me when you have one that is sick you start doing your homework and learning about all this stuff to find out what the heck happened to my dog that was perfectly normal prior. Now i have two other dogs that had no issues at all. This breed is very inbred which means they have a poor immune system in many cases so throwing multiple unnecessary vaccines on top of that is just a recipe for disaster.

[jp4m2]

Originally Posted by jencar98

I think the answer is both, Deb. And, not only are the vets making $$ from both, when a pet dies at what I consider too early an age (possibly bc of the over vaccinating and trash food vets promote), the vets are assured when you get another puppy, the cycle of profit continues for them.

I agree 100%...The vet will make more money treating the chronic disease that result from overvaccination...I know this sounds evil but vets are just like any other business, profits.....It is a business simple as that.....

I wish I would have saved the article I ran across from a veterinary periodical. The vets where discussing how they where going to increase their profits when they start losing income from vaccines. They where talking about getting people into the office under the pretense their pets needed several wormings a year to keep the pet healthy and parasite free and how they could use fear telling the client the parasites where contagious to the family members. The article also quoted several vets as saying they will *never* switch to the new protocol until they are *forced* to......This is malpractice by my standards......

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

Just a side note......Dr. Dodds believes that 100% of the pups that contract parvo picked it up at the vets office........

Tell me this, if one of your pups was diagnosed later in life with thyroid disease, allergies, cancer, epilepsy, Immune-mediated hemolytic anemia (IMHA) and immune-mediated thrombocytopenia (ITP), liver failure etc. etc. would it ever occur to you that this just may be connected to the vaccines you administered to the pup?...... I doubt many breeders would ......

i honestly dont know..i have never had these issues arrise nor heard of someone elses..i think there could be other possible causes as well but sure it would be considered but there is no history to compare it with at this time

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

i know parvo is everywhere and i feel safer knowing my pets are protected

so what happens in ten years when people have stopped vaccinating regularly and there is a bigger problem with parvo and the new research says go back to vaccinating? are you just going to switch back because thats what they say to do?

sometimes these "new researches" are marketing scams..you just never know..like someone else said is it the scam to not vaccinate n have sick puppies and make money off the sick puppies? or is the scam over vaccinating and having sick puppies and making money? could the scam be to not vaccinate and de-populate all the dogs out there, so many in shelters and such...just like when they take a prescription drug that does multiple things but sell it for one thing at a time and just rename it three different times.

Humans have been getting childhood vaccinations now for 50+ years. You don't see adults that had their childhood vaccinations getting measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, polio, etc. do you? Would not the same logic translate to our dogs? Would you suggest adults need to have annual boosters of those mentioned vaccinations? Do you get them, if not, why?

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

i know parvo is everywhere and i feel safer knowing my pets are protected

so what happens in ten years when people have stopped vaccinating regularly and there is a bigger problem with parvo and the new research says go back to vaccinating? are you just going to switch back because thats what they say to do?

sometimes these "new researches" are marketing scams..you just never know..like someone else said is it the scam to not vaccinate n have sick puppies and make money off the sick puppies? or is the scam over vaccinating and having sick puppies and making money? could the scam be to not vaccinate and de-populate all the dogs out there, so many in shelters and such...just like when they take a prescription drug that does multiple things but sell it for one thing at a time and just rename it three different times.

Good questions

I have a friend who has owned dogs for years she does puppy shots then one year then she is done and she has never had a sick dog so she has done the opposite of you and never had a problem.

I think getting non-bias info is key - what profit do the people saying to titer or not vaccinate after 1 year make? What profit do the vets get from an over vaccinated dog that is now sick? I can tell you it is about 10,000 as that is what i have spent on my dog with allergies over 6 years trying everything to help her. Sadly a dog dies of parvo or it cost own 1,000 the plumber said to save his dog but that dog is not going to cost the owner for the rest of its life like it is costing me for my dog. I got off cheap with dd but my friend whose dog got cancer at 7 just spent 30,000 in chemo, surgery removing cancer, etc over the course of a year to get him in remission. Neurology costs 2500 for mri and spinal tap and my friend whose dog has gme has spent a ton in chemo drugs, neurological exams, etc.

Follow the money and usually you will get your answers sadly

It really is what you are comfortable with for your dog and it is good to hear the other side for sure that your dogs have been fine

My parents dog was great for 7 years went into vet for ANNUAL vaccines yep even my dad did not believe the vet could be wrong. His dog got the bordatella vaccine and started vomitting blood and diarhea blood and was very sick with a viral infection right after vaccine. The vet said maybe it is pancreatitis and failed to accept it could be the vaccines done all one one day as well. My dad paid 1500 i believe and bear was hospitalized for a week for this. The only difference is the bordatella shot that year and it is viral. After that my dad went whoa you are right this is scary and now will not do vaccinations for bordatella or dhpp anymore. Bear is a silky so a bigger dog than most yorkies

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by dwerten

It is good to hear the other side on this for me as sadly i have a dog that has auto immune disease and it all started after her puppy shots I never put two and two together until i started learning more about this stuff. My dog was perfectly fine prior to her rabies and puppy shots and then all heck broke loose she would not stop itching was a horrible mess and has been ever since she was six months old.

Allergies in dogs start from the age of 6 months (interesting after shots are done) and up to 3 years of age (after boosters are done yearly for awhile)

Also epilepsy in dogs starts to happen after the age of 3 years old (after vaccinating dogs many times possibly)

Cancer in sites of injection for vaccines

Also neurological conditions within months of vaccinations like Rorie who is a little over 1 year as well as many dogs with neurological conditions like my friends dog with gme. I asked her how long after her vaccinations did she get this and she said within a few months. Her dog was perfectly normal prior. GME is an autoimmune disease or it is tied to an infection disease.

I just think there are alot of coincidences here - could be way off base but trust me when you have one that is sick you start doing your homework and learning about all this stuff to find out what the heck happened to my dog that was perfectly normal prior. Now i have two other dogs that had no issues at all. This breed is very inbred which means they have a poor immune system in many cases so throwing multiple unnecessary vaccines on top of that is just a recipe for disaster.

i also look at as a guessing game, what if game and who/what can i blame game

not all problems show up with in the first couple months and it very well could be just coincidences

one was 3 years..one was a few months the other cancerous at the injection..considering alot of vets dont do the vaccine infront of you anymore how do you know where the vaccine was located? how can you remember the exact pin spot where it was that caused the cancer

as anyone looked at the number of pets that have no problems with current status of "over vaccinating"

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by jencar98

Humans have been getting childhood vaccinations now for 50+ years. You don't see adults that had their childhood vaccinations getting measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, polio, etc. do you? Would not the same logic translate to our dogs? Would you suggest adults need to have annual boosters of those mentioned vaccinations? Do you get them, if not, why?

sigh..of course i dont get them yearly but im not a dog im not eating pooh off the ground..im not bitting my feet, liking other animals etc..i take a bath and wash my hands...as a human i have more options to care for my self where a dog would be more in danger in my opinion

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

sigh..of course i dont get them yearly but im not a dog im not eating pooh off the ground..im not bitting my feet, liking other animals etc..i take a bath and wash my hands...as a human i have more options to care for my self where a dog would be more in danger in my opinion

But, you most likely have been exposed to those diseases since your childhood vaccinations and didn't come down with one of those diseases after your exposure. When you are immune, you are just that - immune, you won't get the disease because of your immunity, not because you wash your hands, or take a bath.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

i also look at as a guessing game, what if game and who/what can i blame game

not all problems show up with in the first couple months and it very well could be just coincidences

one was 3 years..one was a few months the other cancerous at the injection..considering alot of vets dont do the vaccine infront of you anymore how do you know where the vaccine was located? how can you remember the exact pin spot where it was that caused the cancer

as anyone looked at the number of pets that have no problems with current status of "over vaccinating"

the dog had a pancake size cancer at the injection site as the vet wrote down the injection site and owner asked. Could be coincidence?

Why are more dogs getting illnesses these days than years ago or is that not the case?

it could be a blame game I don't know still trying to figure it all out and maybe after years of not overvaccinating we will know if dogs stop getting all these illnesses that are coming up.

I think ultimately we have to have someone we trust with our pets health care and i happen to trust dr dodds. You trust your vet and both have worked for us which is good. No one should do anything they are not 100% comfortable with and each owner should do their homework to be the best advocate for their dog.

[ArmaniMan]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

i also look at as a guessing game, what if game and who/what can i blame game

not all problems show up with in the first couple months and it very well could be just coincidences

one was 3 years..one was a few months the other cancerous at the injection..considering alot of vets dont do the vaccine infront of you anymore how do you know where the vaccine was located? how can you remember the exact pin spot where it was that caused the cancer

as anyone looked at the number of pets that have no problems with current status of "over vaccinating"

I would be very concerned if a vet removed my animal from the room to vaccinate... there is almost nothing in a regular visit that the animal should be removed from the room for. People need to learn to speak up for themselves, anytime the vet asks to remove their animal from the room they need to ask WHY the procedure cant be done in the room.

Vaccination Reactions are very common... every owner should know the EXACT spot of the vaccine so they can keep an eye on it after.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

I agree 100%...The vet will make more money treating the chronic disease that result from overvaccination...I know this sounds evil but vets are just like any other business, profits.....It is a business simple as that.....

I wish I would have saved the article I ran across from a veterinary periodical. The vets where discussing how they where going to increase their profits when they start losing income from vaccines. They where talking about getting people into the office under the pretense their pets needed several wormings a year to keep the pet healthy and parasite free and how they could use fear telling the client the parasites where contagious to the family members. The article also quoted several vets as saying they will *never* switch to the new protocol until they are *forced* to......This is malpractice by my standards......

whoa scary wish you could find that -surprised no

there is no malpractice in vet profession as dogs are treated as property so most you can do is go to small claims court and take it up there BUT if you do this you are going to be black balled by the vet profession in your area sadly as they all protect one another it seems. My friends dog almost died of ivermectin toxicity due to a derm giving ketaconazole and ivermectin together which is deadly. Derm admitted mistake but my friend was still out 3k and she was afraid to go to small claims court against this person. She was scared her dog would not get vet care if this happened.