William R. Pritchard Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital

https://www.msu.edu/~silvar/vax.htm

Community Practice

Texas A&M News & Information Services Blog Archive Pet Vaccinations

Both UF and OSU have similar three year protocol, but they are on pages that can't be linked.

not too..i didnt get chicken pox later =)

very true

I so wish you would have saved that article too. It could hopefully open the eyes of those that refuse to believe in the concept of over-vaccination.

i think in the last video i posted she stated what they are preserved with if i am not mistake was that the mlv - mercury ?

[QUOTE= I also have to wonder what these MLV vaccines are preserved with and if giving that two or three times instead of once is a good idea.[/QUOTE]

not really an issue for me since i do my own..but i took someone puppy to the hated banfield.. i hate them with a passion and they took the pup put the room for almost everything they did..since i do my own vaccines thats not a problem for me...i believe my vet does it with you and the one i worked for but there might be others that dont

just had to do it C

GOOOOOOOOOOO BUCKS LOLLLL

Great thread!
 

As I'm about to get Walker "updated" on his shots, it's an eye opener to me reading all of this! I guess, I'll have to do some research in the next few days and I totally agree: the vets just push all this stuff on us, because they want to make money and they'll make us feel like we don't take the best care of our dogs, if we don't get them vaccinated every year. I do believe, most of those shots are unnecessary, depending on your dogs life style and based on where you live. Lymes disease is a big concern, even with people in my area. I won't skip that one. Rabies is the law and not annually required. Fine with that. The 5-way, that is now a 7-way at my old vet, is overkill in my book. That's why he's my old vet. This year, I'm trying somebody new. We'll see how this goes. This is a very helpful thread! Thanks for bringing it up.:thumbup:

I thank you for taking the time to learn. And, if Walker could talk, I'm sure he would thank you too!:)

And what if the same approach was taken for anesthesia?
The old anesthesia work for a lot of animals, but it is still not nearly as safe as what we have today (iso, sevo, and propofol). So what if vets decided that this new anesthesia protocol wasn't a good idea because the old protocol is still working for most? We would be losing more animals to common surgeries because of hesitancy to move ahead with newer ways of doing things.

[QUOTEAlso, dogs have sacrificed their lives in order for OUR dogs to have this research and lead safer, healthier lives through not being overvaccinated[/QUOTE]

This is true and Dogs will be sacrificed for the Duration of Immunity Study for Rabies Vaccine - Rabies Challenge Fund as well and some are outraged by this but sadly these dogs would probably be put down anyway in a shelter and they could possibly save more dogs from being in a shelter or pts

Why are most dogs in rescue and at shelters? Is it because they are sick and owners cannot afford vet care?

btw i am not good at this quote thing can you tell lolllll how do you do that?

ok just emailed jean dodds your question C and this is her response

All vaccines have some preservatives – some even have thimerosol (mercury) – you have to read the actual product insert on them before purchase. It’s usually available on line. Jean

she is the best and fast to respond - love her

I am so shocked.

It *is* broke...do you read the journals and follow, say, Pitcairn's talks on what overvaccinating has done to our dogs health, which is now possibly causing GENETIC alterations???

This research is not new. Where are you getting that it's "new"?

Nobody in this thread is saying not to vaccinate. It is VERY important to get your pups protected. :thumbup: In fact most folks don't even take their puppies outdoors until their shots are completed on this site. My vet informed me it was okay to take Jackson outside after his 2nd puppy shot at 12 weeks old but only in our backyard.

All of us are trying to say, YES... get the puppy shots up until 15-16 weeks or so, then get rabies. Then at 1 year old get all those shots again!

Me too. I have NEVER taken a dog to the vet and had my pup taken away from me for shots.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Sadly, with new protocols the cost of dentals and other procedures that require anesthesia has increased. Not to mention that there are many other things that are being done during dentals and those things, while better for the pups, are costing more money.

Couple that with people who bargain shop because they cannot afford higher priced vetting. I have seen many vets perform procedures that they should not have in trying to satisfy the demands of people who wanted cheaper vetting. It happened to one of my fosters....an IM pin was placed for way less than what anyone else would do and no plate, no screws...in a long bone and it of course never healed. Then, the end result was that he was surrendered by the owner. So...the owner tossed her money away and the pup suffered.

There are many vets who are responding to the need for cheaper vetting and the results are not good.

And, of course you have vets who do not do any continuing education and are probably not AAHA accretited. Many people do seek them out to save a buck not thinking about what the end result can be. Yes, there can be vets in AAHA accretited facilities that are not as good as others; but my personal opinion is that they are normally the best vets out there. At least they do have to meet certain standards. Same thing goes for specialists...I go to board certified because they have met certain standards that others avoid.

As for vaccines, I have had conversations with people who refuse to question their vets about this every year nonsense. I have given them the link to the AAHA information and suggested they show their vet....and they have told me that they would not question it. Many people are like that....I have had people tell me "my doctor said" and they never question it. I am all about being an educated consumer. That does not mean I think vets and doctors are all stupid. It means that I am a partner in my and/or my pups' care. I don't go to a doctor or vet and tell them what to do. I listen to what they say and then I ask questions. Many people just take what anyone says as gospel.

This is my problem with splitting up the DHP. We would likely be giving three times the preservatives. So, is that really a good way to go? Maybe not... Heck, the preservatives can be as bad as the vaccines themselves!

I do not follow the AAHA much do not know alot about it really but i remember you linked me on it so i could look up vets in my area. Only a few were on there and the one that was on there that shocked me was the one my friend whose dog has cancer sees and he vaccinates for everything including corona :( He messed up my dog big time too. He is not safe either wanted to do a dental along with acl surgery two weeks after her injury when standard is wait two months rest leg and she was fine and still is a year later without surgery. Doing a dental along with knee surgery is not safe as there is bacteria flying everywhere in a dental:( Not sure this is the best source now after seeing that

If people were not spending so much on chronic illnesses then dentals and leg surgeries may not be as big of a deal to pay more.

Sadly some people cut corners due to not being able to afford. I personally do not and deal mostly with specialists. I do not have dentals done by a regular vet as the techs do them and went to bc orthopedic after dd hurt her leg instead of trusting this AAHA vet.

It was my aha moment i guess you could say loll

This is an interesting topic and a very important one……It’s good to see there’s people out there who want the best for their pets and they’re willing to research, learn and change. There are now better and safer ways to do vaccines, we have the research, we cannot not allow ourselves to be guided by needless fears ……. The recommendations for annual vaccination were put forth jointly by the United States Department of Agriculture and the drug companies, more than twenty years ago. And veterinary medicine has continued to do it that way because, well, that’s the way it’s always been done.


We have to question the ways we are *caring* for our pets. No doubt about it, the cases of distemper, parvo and rabies has been greatly diminished in our pets. But our pets are in no way healthier for it. We now have epidemic numbers of pets with severe chronic diseases: liver, kidney, thyroid, diabetes, and cancer that is rising, with no end in sight….. How many of our pets have allergies? Allergies are a sign of a weakened immune system……. Did we just trade diseases?


Granted, other factors need to be considered also, as in the pet’s diet ( dog food is a whole other topic), environmental and genetics. But vaccines cannot be dismissed as not being a major contributor to these issues. Vaccines are not harmless. We all need to do our research and not be afraid or feel intimidated to stand up to the vets if we feel we are making a safer decision for *our*pets….. With knowledge comes power……


If your vet says annual vaccination is necessary, ask him if he has heard of the research that has already been done concerning this issue, and that annual vaccination is not only unnecessary, but it is also harmful. If he has heard of this research, he cannot dismiss your questions. If he has not heard of it, then he lacks the knowledge to advise.

For all of you with an open mind and a willingness to learn, I applaud you...and your pets thank you too.....:)

Good point C so it is the preservative vs the combo of vaccine - something to think about as I know the adjuvunct is the problem in the lepto vaccine.

:clapsmile:clapsmile:clapsmile

Fab.U.lous.

100% agree as my dog has allergies and hypothyroid

and so glad I DEMANDED blood work to be done as you can see below my dogs pics for hypothyroid when vet refused to run blood work battled me when i was willing to pay for it saying it was allergies and steroid use. So glad I next blood work up found dr dodds was in my area and drove to see her because can you imagine what would have happened to my dog had her thyroid dropped further - YEP SEIZURES can happen to dogs not treated for hypothyroid and if it gets to low this can happen. I also had her bats re run by dr dodds as well to make sure she had mvd for sure and it is very mild on a low protein diet.

Is there a link in the library or somewhere stickied on here of what questions to ask a vet and what answers are acceptable for new pet owners?

This is the only suggestion I found as an alternative to combo vaccines.....

If you’re vaccinating a puppy, or a young dog with low antibody titers, ask your vet to use a monovalent vaccine (meaning the vial contains only one vaccine). Also, use vials with only one dose to avoid the extra chemicals preventing contamination in multi-dose vials. Three readily available vaccines include: Galaxy Pv (a shot containing only parvovirus, offering 7+ years of immunity) and Galaxy D (a shot containing only distemper, giving 5 or more years of immunity). If those aren’t available, use Intervet Progard Puppy DPV containing both parvovirus and distemper but nothing else.

If your vet won’t purchase monovalent shots (protesting that his distributor doesn’t carry them), purchase them yourself and have your vet give them. Refrigerate until use. Better yet, have them sent to your vet by the reseller. You may not be able to purchase just one vial, but the extra cost is worth the savings from potential adverse reactions.

Better still, find a holistic vet who’ll know how to vaccinate, or not vaccinate, without harming your dog and already use monovalent vaccines.



The preservative is only one problem with the combo vaccines, it's also a potent immune system stresser and it carries a greater risk for adverse reactions.

Since puppy shots (Parvo & distemper) are proven to last *at least* seven years (but more likely for life) this may be a non- issue to worry about for most.............:)

It is a hard one. The single vials would still have to have some type of preservative in them. THe viruses and/or bacteria are immune system stressors, but the presevatives would be too, esp. when talking about mercury, etc. I'll have to see if I can get my hands on an insert for DHPP single vials and see what's up.

here is a site with info

5 way -- Gentamicin added as preservative.

Duramune® Max 5, 25 x 1 ml tray - 5 Way Puppy Shot - Vet Med Direct

Vaccines - 5 Way Puppy Shot - Vet Med Direct

distemper-----The vaccine contains gentamicin as a preservative.


Galaxy® D, 25 x 1 ml tray - Galaxy Vaccines - Vet Med Direct

parvo --- Gentamicin and thimerosal added as preservatives

Duramune® Max Pv, 25 x 1 ml tray - Parvo - Vet Med Direct

Vaccines - Parvo - Vet Med Direct

GENTAMICIN

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentamicin

THIMEROSAL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal

Now I KNOW I need to find a new vet. I called a couple today and asked if they recommend shots annually and if they recommend titers. They said yes to the first question and no to the second. They said titers isn't usually done and they sounded like it was ridiculous. One told me it cost over $400 to do it and it has to be 'sent out', like I shouldn't even consider it. I feel like I am getting nowhere in my search.

My current vet has been scaring me into getting annual shots. Now I feel so guilty for doing it.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to find a good vet? Also what questions should I ask them?

Thanks.

It takes some effort but you are on the right track... basically I just called around and asked about
1. vaccine recommendations
2. if anything was REQUIRED
3. if they would except my cats medical exemption for rabies
off the topic of vaccines...
4. I asked how long it typically took to get an appointment
5.if they had same day appointments if your pet was very sick
6. what their emergency fee was
7. where they referred emergencies after hours

Thanks! I printed your list and I am going to continue my search tomorrow now that I have some direction to follow.

Also, wanted to add that you can get a gut feeling about a place from their willingness to answer the questions... if they are annoyed and want to get you off the phone really quick, how they are going to be when you call with questions? The one I ended up using, the receptionist stayed on the phone and answered all my questions and the few she didnt know the answer to, she wrote down and said she would ask a vet and call me back and she called me back that same day with the answers.

And this has been the care I receive now, the vets are very thorough when you are there, they answer all your questions and spend a lot of time with you. They always call me back if I have questions and always call as soon as tests results come in. I had a problem with my previous vet where they never called you, you always had to call a million times before you could ever get someone to tell you the results of any test. :thumbdown

The most i paid for a titer was to cornell university it was $152.

They do send them out usually to vet schools

The titers i have had done also were sent to colorado state and i believe antech but now jean dodds does them and i think she does them for $50 appx

sounds like they are trying to scare you off of doing them due to cost - that is bad news :(

also keep in mind a low titer does not necessarily mean your dog is not protected. My demi had a low titer so i vaccinated her but it was only because she did not have her one year booster yet