Question about bile acid tests!!!

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

You are speaking in generalities based on situations that have happened to you.

The subject of this thread is Liver Shunt. Nothing to mess with and still recommend taking Dr. Tobias and Dr Centers methods over recommendations of a lay person on YT.

Again, recommendations are great, but giving advise as to what one should or shouldn't do over what has been advised and recommended by Specialists and Experts in the field.....mmmmmm. That is unless one is willing to take the responsibility of someone's dog dying because of said recommendation.

oh no I have seen this stuff happen over and over on the dog groups i am on and on here loll not just my dog - check out the link where the vet just did a barium swallow test for a dog with crystals in urine having symptoms of liver shunt - sorry not just happening to me wish it was as hate to see other owners experience what i have experienced - and those are not generalities those are specifics

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

So do you think a dog fasting for 12 hrs is going to screw up the test? As i would doubt that very much as that seems to be the dispute here i guess lolllll

You are disputing the protocol of the best in the field. She developed the BAT.....I think I'lll take her recommendations over yours. It's a no brainer decision.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I was also reading that there is a Dr. Wilfried Mai out of the Univerity of Pennsyulvania-School of Veterinary Medicine, seeking to modificy the technique of using contrast-enhanced magnetic esonance angiograph in humans for use in dogs.

Traditional methods for diagnosing porto-systemic shunts and hepatic microvascular disease have included radiographs, ultrasound and scintigraphy. The tests often have been used in combination to obtain an accurate picture of the extent of the problem before treatment options can be obtained. His hope is that CE-MRA will afford a better diagnostic option for canine liver patients.

All I can say is I HATE this disease!!!!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

oh no I have seen this stuff happen over and over on the dog groups i am on and on here loll not just my dog - check out the link where the vet just did a barium swallow test for a dog with crystals in urine having symptoms of liver shunt - sorry not just happening to me wish it was as hate to see other owners experience what i have experienced - and those are not generalities those are specifics

It happens in all medical fields.........

But, I would still take the recommendations of an educated expert in a field, over that of a lay persons......

Everyone should have an active participation in their as well as their pets medical care.......but, if you don't have faith in your vet......then find another.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I was also reading that there is a Dr. Wilfried Mai out of the Univerity of Pennsyulvania-School of Veterinary Medicine, seeking to modificy the technique of using contrast-enhanced magnetic esonance angiograph in humans for use in dogs.

Traditional methods for diagnosing porto-systemic shunts and hepatic microvascular disease have included radiographs, ultrasound and scintigraphy. The tests often have been used in combination to obtain an accurate picture of the extent of the problem before treatment options can be obtained. His hope is that CE-MRA will afford a better diagnostic option for canine liver patients.

well the ultrasound is very hard to detect in a small dog unless the person doing it is very experienced in liver shunt like dr tobias group but i would not trust that test over scintigraphy and what about protein C test - a dog owner i helped had protein c test sent to texas a & m came back no shunt well when i sent him to dr tobias she did scintigraphy and shunt was noted they opened him up he had 3 or 4 shunts so protein c test in my opinion after that is not accurate unless texas a & m testing is not as sufficient as cornell which is where i told him the protein c test should have gone

the scintigraphy in my opinion is still the best test if bile acids are over 100 over anything else BUT having said that ginger on here had the scintigraphy with dr tobias and she was opened up and turned out no shunt during spay so it is really tough when i hear something like that as she had alot of symptoms as well but just mvd

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

It happens in all medical fields.........

But, I would still take the recommendations of an educated expert in a field, over that of a lay persons......

Everyone should have an active participation in their as well as their pets medical care.......but, if you don't have faith in your vet......then find another.

or go to specialists which i do pay a little more as you probably pay less in the long run with a better diagnostic if it is something serious.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

well the ultrasound is very hard to detect in a small dog unless the person doing it is very experienced in liver shunt like dr tobias group but i would not trust that test over scintigraphy and what about protein C test - a dog owner i helped had protein c test sent to texas a & m came back no shunt well when i sent him to dr tobias she did scintigraphy and shunt was noted they opened him up he had 3 or 4 shunts so protein c test in my opinion after that is not accurate unless texas a & m testing is not as sufficient as cornell which is where i told him the protein c test should have gone

the scintigraphy in my opinion is still the best test if bile acids are over 100 over anything else BUT having said that ginger on here had the scintigraphy with dr tobias and she was opened up and turned out no shunt during spay so it is really tough when i hear something like that as she had alot of symptoms as well but just mvd

Now Please.....this is still in the research stages.....how do you know what development this Dr has made......it's still not even out there.........

YTCA has made donation for this research......

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

You are disputing the protocol of the best in the field. She developed the BAT.....I think I'lll take her recommendations over yours. It's a no brainer decision.

lol well I have done 3 with 12hr fast and did not seem to be a problem so i really do not think it is going to be in accurate and she is changing her protocol to avoid hypoglycemia not because 12 fast was inaccurate lollllll

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Now Please.....this is still in the research stages.....how do you know what development this Dr has made......it's still not even out there.........

YTCA has made donation for this research......

what is in research stage protein C is that what you are referring to ?

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by dwerten

well the ultrasound is very hard to detect in a small dog unless the person doing it is very experienced in liver shunt like dr tobias group but i would not trust that test over scintigraphy and what about protein C test - a dog owner i helped had protein c test sent to texas a & m came back no shunt well when i sent him to dr tobias she did scintigraphy and shunt was noted they opened him up he had 3 or 4 shunts so protein c test in my opinion after that is not accurate unless texas a & m testing is not as sufficient as cornell which is where i told him the protein c test should have gone

the scintigraphy in my opinion is still the best test if bile acids are over 100 over anything else BUT having said that ginger on here had the scintigraphy with dr tobias and she was opened up and turned out no shunt during spay so it is really tough when i hear something like that as she had alot of symptoms as well but just mvd

I have sent some blood work myself for a Protein C test on one of my yorkies but I didn't send it to Texas A & M and I'm here in Texas my vet shipped it to Cornell University to Dr. Sharon Center and of course no shunt was found and also we re did the test in a month and the BATs were/are normal...that is when I found out that taking medications right before a BAT test can obscure the results on a BAT test and for several years now still normal BATS and I run them every 6 months and that is on a pet yorkie not a breeding one. I will do a scintigraphy after a Protein C test that was run by Dr. Sharon Center and that is if that what she recommends. I totally trust what Dr. Sharon Center would recommend.

[Elle]

Originally Posted by ZoeSirasMom

I just want to say what a educating blog this was for me. I am now going to get myself a New Vet. One that can work hand in hand with my Holistic Vet.

This is the post I returned to the blog for. It concerns be greatly. Did I miss something? IMO, there is no replacement for good veterinarian treatment. Did you have a bad treatment that led you to feel otherwise?


We are all entitled to own opinions. However! Holisitic medicine can be dangerous. I can see a need if one doesn't have anything to lose. But otherwise I wouldn't dare bother rolling those dice!
I've known a couple vets that work with holistic practitioners. I can tell you stories about those crazos, all of have bad reputations as DVM's.
It's not to say that every single holistic practitioner is a quack. There are some good stories out there. I go back to, when you have nothing to lose why not? The holistic theory that all problems come from vaccinations is a lie. Just like Lady Wonder the Palm Reader, people come to them distraught. It's easy to blame anything where they can. They're lying & don't buy into all of it. In addition to this. A good vet SHOULD be all one needs. Yorkies don't need a therapist, trainer, personal shopper, whisperer, etc. Proper care by you and or a groomer & vet. That should be all that they need.

Even though Dr. Dodds is not a typical holistic vet. Any time you talk about a world renowned medical provider one must give credit. sort of like talking to Dr. Phil about problems in your family. Is he a good man or is it marketing? Well, BOTH! If you cannot take your pet to them for everything, are they really helping you that much? I'd ask them why? It's niche marketing & it's okay if you know it up front.
This is only my own opinion. You are entitled to your own. If we existed on holistic meds where would our yorkies be? We would not know or we would be too sick to care for them.
I won't titer, not me, no way!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

lol well I have done 3 with 12hr fast and did not seem to be a problem so i really do not think it is going to be in accurate and she is changing her protocol to avoid hypoglycemia not because 12 fast was inaccurate lollllll

She is not changing her protocol. It was changed 3 years ago.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

She is not changing her protocol. It was changed 3 years ago.

oh ok so then 3 years ago she changed it due to hypoglycemia and tinies having issues fasting for 12 hrs not because inaccurate results on the pre

[bellbuzz07]

what about the original poster? her babies post test was over 200... any suggesttions, kind words, or prayers for her?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

oh ok so then 3 years ago she changed it due to hypoglycemia and tinies having issues fasting for 12 hrs not because inaccurate results on the pre

Do you know that for a fact.........The reason for her changing was two fold....one because of the hypoglycemia in tinies the other is based on her findings, it is totally unnecessary.