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10-01-2008, 06:49 AM | #1 |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 30
| portosystemic shunt Okay I just recently took Biggs to the vet and had them do blood test and bile acid tests. The vet just called me today telling me that his tests came back and are consistent with a portosystemic shunt. She recommended for sure to switch him over to a liver diet or low protein diet. She recommended science diet LD. I took him off of a science diet when we first got him because it has so many fillers and stuff. Is this LD different and what food would be better for him? Help Please!!!! anyone else that has a yorkie with a portosystemic shunt give some advice also. |
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10-01-2008, 06:53 AM | #2 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Oh no. First, why was he tested? What symptoms is he having or was it just a precaution? Can you post the results to all blood work? How does the vet know it is liver shunt and not microvascular dysplasia or another liver functioning issue? L/D canned is a fair food for liver compromised dogs. I would not use the L/D dry because it contains ethoxyquin. Royal Canin LS 14 kibble is okay but RC has made lots of Yorkies (including mine) very itchy. What tests is your vet planning to do next and what supplements will he be started on?
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
10-01-2008, 07:05 AM | #3 |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 30
| He was tested because he hasn't gained any weight for almost 4 to 5 months and he is only 3.5 lbs. When his mother was 7 and his father was 5. I do not have the results from all of the blood work. the options she gave me was to switch his food or take him to the University in my state to have further testing and possible surgery. |
10-01-2008, 07:24 AM | #4 |
Slave to My Rug-Rats Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Long Island
Posts: 7,247
| You need to call the Vet back ASAP and get the BAT results. They will give you a Pre # and a Post # (normal range for the Post is less than 20). So when they say the results are in shunt territory, to me that says the Post is OVER 100 Let us know the #s and we can guide you from there.... |
10-01-2008, 07:24 AM | #5 | |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Quote:
Can you have her print them off for you? She could do a Protein C test (blood test sent to Cornell) or you could have a scintography done but that is a lot of money without knowing the results and seeing if it is necessary. By the way, my dog has high bile acids also.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 | |
10-01-2008, 08:36 AM | #6 | |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 30
| Quote:
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10-01-2008, 08:51 AM | #7 | |
Slave to My Rug-Rats Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Long Island
Posts: 7,247
| Quote:
All it is, is 2 numbers: A Pre # and A Post # I would wait for the mail, I'd call them to get those 2 numbers | |
10-01-2008, 09:48 AM | #8 |
BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA
Posts: 11,073
| ok first do not get too worked up if no signs like not wanting to eat, head pressing, seizures etc. next join this group and learn a ton Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support@yahoogroups.com before any further testing. Post biles can be high due to gall bladder contraction. My dd had post of 73 then 54 now 26 and she is mvd and she is on low protein diet no supplements as she is not showing any signs of liver disease -- treat the dog not the bloodwork so do not panic until you learn more about this as if not higher than 100 then it is mvd not liver shunt in most cases - dr. dodds liver cleansing diet is excellent if you can home cook. I see dr. dodds for my dd hypothyroid issue. She is in garden grove, California. So before putting your dog through a bunch of tests learn more first as most vets are not very knowledgeable about it and the only person i would trust is dr. tobias at university of tenessee or dr. centers at cornell university if it were a shunt - I learned a ton on that yahoo group when i was scared like you as they wanted my dd to get a scinitography asap in tustin but i said no way not until i learn about it as she has not signs of this disease so please do not worry until you learn more |
10-02-2008, 07:45 AM | #9 |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 30
| Okay I have his results and the first one says 7.4 and the second one says 141.2. But could that also be high because he is still eating puppy food that has 28.8% protein. |
10-02-2008, 07:55 AM | #10 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Do all dogs with shunts have high bile acids? Dog with shunts will almost always have high bile acids 2 hours after eating, and usually at least 95% of dogs will have high bile acids after a 12 hour fast. Samples are taken at both time periods ("fasting" or "preprandial", and "fed" or "postprandial") for several reasons. Some dogs normally release bile acids in the middle of the night and therefore naturally have a higher than normal fasting sample. Other dogs may have fat in their blood ("lipemia") after eating, which can interfere with the test. If only one blood sample can be obtained, it is best to take it 2 hours after eating. Portosystemic Shunts FAQ He does not have preprandial high bile acids, so there is a 95% chance that there isn't a large shunt. There is a very good chance that it is MVD. With a post that high though, a large shunt really should be ruled out. I would do further testing. Because he isn't growing as well as he should be, I'd go to an internist. They may try to talk you into an ultrasound but they are only 60-80% accurate for diagnosing shunts. They are a good tool if you are looking at the size of the liver and if there are secondary bladder stones though. High protein may make the results high but not that high. Medications can skew the results. Had he had any heartworm med or flea med one week before the test? Had he had any vaccines for about a month before the test? His diet will need to be changed if the bile acids are up because of ls or mvd. It wouldn't hurt to put him on canned L/D until you are sure that everything is okay. You could also put him on low protein and supplements for a month and retest but that number seems a bit high to do that (my opinon only). L/D isn't really a good food for puppies either because it is so low in protein.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 Last edited by Ellie May; 10-02-2008 at 07:56 AM. |
10-02-2008, 08:07 AM | #11 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: justin tx
Posts: 130
| Quote:
My Paisley had liver shunt surgery 2 1/2 months ago. Her Bile Acids were pre- 19 and post- 227. After I talked to many people and looked at my options we went straight for a scintigraphy. This cost me about $400. And it showed she had a shunt. I wish you the best! Take the time to research and think about what you want to do next. Christina
__________________ Christina | |
10-02-2008, 08:08 AM | #12 |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Minnesota
Posts: 30
| Well the week before that he was on amoxicillin because when they did the first blood test his pancreas was high so she had put him on that for 10 days and his 10th day was the day before his bile acid test. He is a year old now so he needs his food changed anyway but I didn't know what food to go to she told me the canned L/D and I was thinking that. I live in a very small town and the closest place for me to do an untrasound is over 3 hours away so I really dont know what to do one other person said a protein c test but I haven't read much about that yet. Thank you though I am going to look into some things and anymore advice for me would be great. |
10-02-2008, 08:21 AM | #13 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,079
| I am so sorry you are going through all of this. I would recheck BA's in 4-6 week and then if they are still elevated I would recommend having a Protein C test done next. Your vet will have to collect the sample and send it to Cornell University but it is the least invasive way to determine if elevated BA's are from MVD or from a livers shunt. Normal Protein C Activity and elevated BA's = MVD Abnormal Protein C Acvtivity and elevated BA's = Most likely a shunt IF you get an abnormal protein C then you can proceed with a scintograhy
__________________ Jackie JaLa Yorkshire Terriers |
11-30-2008, 12:51 AM | #14 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! | Is your puppy ok? Hi, I also just learned that my puppy's bile acids were high. I just joined this site because I am also trying to find info on Liver shunts and the management/treatment for them. I see that you first posted your message in early October. Do you any have any updates on your puppy's condition? |
11-30-2008, 06:21 AM | #15 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 85
| Hi all. I know everyone does things a little differently, but Zeus has been on dry LD for years and thrived. He was on canned initially, then I mixed the two. His vet wanted to try to transition him to dry, and he has done great. Just another piece of info juliet |
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