Why do some judge and bully others on YT?

[aproctor]

Originally Posted by McheleM

What you see as rude, others might not.

I take your post to be condescending. You come across as one of those people who asks for advice and then boo hoo when people don't say exactly what you want to hear.
I'm sure that's not how you meant it, but that's how *I* take it. Internet is tricky that way-you can't see facial expressions, hear tone or infliction or read body language. I'm an honest, tell it like I see it kind of person. I'll admit when I'm wrong and apologize, and will fight when I'm right. It doesn't make me rude. It makes me ME.
Bottom line is, we are all big boys and girls and should be able to hold a conversation with differing opinions. If you can't, maybe you shouldn't be in the big pool, you might need to grab your Dora the explorer water wings and hang out in the kiddie pool a little longer.

And just remember.... If you're reporting comments, so are other people. Kharmas only a witch if you are.

Wow....thank you for posting this because this is exactly what I am talking about. Indirectly (so you don't get reported) comments directly toward someone...

I will now refrain and not say anymore because this post speaks for itself!

[BabyGirl Rosie]

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots

A lot of what people post appears to be bullying when actually it's just very firm opinions and advice, some of which is said at times a little harsher than maybe it should be. But it's only because the "bullies" combined have been through much of what is posted in the S&I section.

When I first joined YT I was very intimidated of a few people and was so reluctant to post anything. I thought some of the comments seemed a bit harsh. I now realize that those people have become some of my closest friends on YT because they ultimately care intensely for and love their pets. I was confused by megansmomma's intentions at first , would never debate barney107 if my life depended on it and LadyJane still scares me at times. These people are some of the greatest assets on YT and sometimes it takes a little time to see that.

disclaimer: the names used in this post are hypothetical "bullies"

They are three ladies that are very compassionate about their love for these furbabies. And yes, their advice is golden to many. I personally have had communication with barney107 and LadyJane. So I am speaking from experience. Megansmomma I am not sure if I have or not (other than the raffle) but you have been warned....I have your name now. Lol.

[AllDogBoots]

Originally Posted by aproctor

Wow....thank you for posting this because this is exactly what I am talking about. Indirectly (so you don't get reported) comments directly toward someone...

I will now refrain and not say anymore because this post speaks for itself!

This post is totally rude. But, you need to just ignore stuff like that and walk away. There's a big difference between rudeness and so called "bullying".

[aproctor]

Originally Posted by Islandloverr

LOL, well I just couldn't resist. I spoke on this subject sooooo many times and I try to avoid these threads, but I just felt the need to comment.

*Disclaimer: I did not read the OPs help thread and don't care to. The main issue is the way things are said on here, weather pertaining to this case or not....once again, IT DOES HAPPEN. So this is NOT I repeat NOT towards megansmomma*

Now lets try to practice what we preach people. "This is an open forum....so there are many opinions and you just have to take it"....OK....the OP's opinion is that some posters replys came across as rude. So sit there & eat it! Weather you were rude or not, take it for what it is & move on! You said what you wanted to say, the way you wanted to say it...so don't get mad if someone takes it to offense. Ignore it and leave.

Now IN THE REAL WORLD, when everyones not hiding behind their computer screens...If your trying to help someone & they take it as offensive...you re-assure them that wasn't your intentions and you're only there to help....not go back & argue them down about HOW THEY FEEL! Now if they continue to be confrontational...leave it alone...go on another thread...tell someones furbaby Happy Birthday for goodness sakes!

And sometimes I just have to laugh at some of these posters and how BOLD they are with their comments... I gotta say they have HEART!...but I bet you their behind wouldn't try that slick talk in real life because they'll get told off or a fist in their mouth!

I don't think you are referring to me...at least I hope!?

& @ McheleM....Speaking about karma, you're over there belittling the OP telling them to "hang out in the kiddie pool" but don't be surprised if one day someone pushes you in one because of that mouth of yours.



But as a newbie...I love YT....Best Forum on the Planet! I definitely think everything else overshadows the....do i dare to say it?.... "rudeness"...or "sensitivity"! lol, but I understand it can be frustrating.

I do agree with this as well...I love this place and I just wanted people to be aware of the fact that how they say things can be hurtful.....I am respectful to others and I expect the same in return and that is the point I am trying to make.

[aproctor]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

I think on any internet forum - you have to be pretty thick-skinned.

I belong to a Parenting Forum on another website and cannot believe how mean that one can get! It sure makes YT look like the sweetest place in the world.

*LOL

From my experience - this is just the way it is on internet forums. You take the good with the bad; glean what you can from all advice (even if you don't agree with it; you can still learn something) and move on.

In the end, it is always YOUR call; your decision; your dog.

The longer you hang around; the more some people will grow on you when you see what their true intentions are. They would do anything to help a dog.

I think this is true because I have met some wonderful, genuine people on here and I love it and maybe that's why I would like it to be a more respectful forum....

[ArmaniMan]

You want this to be a more respectful forum, yet you say you agree with the posts in this thread where people are blatantly rude and disrespectful? So it is only respectful if people agree with everything you say- that is not how internet forums work, sorry.

[yorkietalkjilly]

As far as judgmental, we all make judgments and post accordingly. What exactly do you call bullying? Please post proof that this has occurred.

[aproctor]

Kristin,
As you probably know I was not only referring to the thread about the chiropractor but also mine.

I would never want to deter anyone from here and I completely agree that this is a wonderful place and I have learned A LOT.

My point is that no matter how long you are here, no matter what your experiences are, no matter how many dogs you have helped, etc. you should always respond to people (especially who are emotional and freaked out if posting in the S/I forum) with respect and the same goes for the OP.

I don't think it is fair that people responded to me as they did when I completely took the advice from my vet and specialist and am currently doing as they say but yet I got comments that I "ignored advice from 2 vets"...which is 100% untrue!

You, yourself may not agree with the advice given to me from my vet and specialist but I have NEVER gotten a condescending comment from you..nothing but support and just when I think everyone forgot about me I would get a nice comment of support on my page from you which means the world to me!!!!

I guess I wish more people would offer words of advice and wisdom but be supportive about the decision that the owner has made~as you do!!

Originally Posted by Maximo

I agree. Quicksilver used to have a Gandhi quote in her tagline that conveyed the same idea: "Be the change you want to see."

I do have to disagree strongly with the accusation that people are judging or bullying in the S&I forum. That section may seem a little rough and tumble at times because people have different and strong opinions on how to best handle different ailments and injuries, but keep in mind that the forum is not only for support, but also to share information and experience for the benefit of other readers, not just the OP.

When someone suggests taking a pup to a chiropractor after being dropped on the floor, yes, there is going to be strong outcry because that is grossly irresponsible. Even someone who advocates chiropractory can't seriously think this is a good plan when no xrays have been done and spinal and neck injuries have not been ruled out with more than a simple physical eval that you or I could have done.

It would be dangerous and irresponsible for everyone to ignore or appear to condone bad or controversial suggestions in the S&I forum. When I was looking up old eye-related threads, I found some really bad advice for alternative treatments or putting off treatment -- both things that could result in a pup losing vision or an eye.

Ann, you do not need to justify your decisions about your pup's healthcare to anyone on the Internet. We are each responsible only to ourselves and our doggies. However, none of us can expect everyone to agree with our decisions and give their stamp of approval. Not everyone (including good friends) agreed with my choice to have my regular vet treat Max's eyes rather than a specialist. That's okay because I know those people are simply concerned about my dog's eyes and vision.

What you call judging, I believe is intelligent and experienced people evaluating a situation. They are not sizing you up personally. What you refer to as bullying, I believe is persistence for the sake of the dogs and good info in this forum.

This is true but where does the line get drawn? Sometimes it goes a little far!


Whenever I read complaints about YT, I think of everyone here choosing a personal doctor or vet. Their bedside manner and approach are often factors in choosing. I'm guessing many people here would not like my vet because he is a man of few words and he is rather technical and doesn't mess around. That is the way it is on YT -- different people, different bedside manners.

I hope that people are not deterred from responding to threads in the S&I. That would be a great loss for us all.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by 107barney

And in any event, if I want to say that I will NEVER take my dog to a chiropractor, I'll say it. Having a different opinion than yours, or anyone else here, does not make one a bully. It also does not make one judgmental. It simply means I don't agree. .

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots

A lot of what people post appears to be bullying when actually it's just very firm opinions and advice, some of which is said at times a little harsher than maybe it should be. But it's only because the "bullies" combined have been through much of what is posted in the S&I section.

When I first joined YT I was very intimidated of a few people and was so reluctant to post anything. I thought some of the comments seemed a bit harsh. I now realize that those people have become some of my closest friends on YT because they ultimately care intensely for and love their pets. I was confused by megansmomma's intentions at first , would never debate barney107 if my life depended on it and LadyJane still scares me at times. These people are some of the greatest assets on YT and sometimes it takes a little time to see that.

disclaimer: the names used in this post are hypothetical "bullies"

Megansmomma scared the heck out of me early on. Now I look forward to her posts. Cathy is well trained in debate and lays things out in a very logical way. As for LadyJane, I love, love, love the way her compassion for the dogs is always first and foremost. She speaks for those who don't have a voice.

Originally Posted by ArmaniMan

I think this is a judgmental thread and you are attempting to bully people into not speaking up for the dogs when necessary- thankfully, many people have done this before and it does not work. People don't always get the answers they want here, but they do always get the knowledge and support of some very experienced members.

It's all about interpretation. What one person decides is bullying or mean, the next person finds straight foward and to the point. Personally, I've come to the conclusion that when I post it's not about me but about the dogs. If my feelings get hurt it's only because I allowed them to.

As far as I am concerned, the only one who has the right to tell someone else they are being rude or bullying here is the admin and his designees.

[Ellie May]

I can only assume that I know the "bullies" that you are talking about and I can also only assume that I could be one of them.

When I post on the sick and injured forum, I'm rarely there to just send well wishes and move on. I'm also not there to agree with everyones' vets. If I think something isn't right, then I have no problem saying so.

I left your thread because I have no more advice for you right now, and even if I did, it is obvious that you won't seriously consider it (you stated this yourself in this thread http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...-vet-said.html). You said just sit back and read. Don't pay much attention, right? You said as long as you and your vet agree, then it's fine. So if you and your vet agree, then why should I take time out of my day to give advice that will be ignored?

When you first posted what the specialist recommended, it did appear as though the first option was their first choice. And even now that I know it wasn't, I still have to say something does not sound right to me. You can do whatever you want with your pup. However, that doesn't mean that you will get support in the form of agreement from all of us.

I don't always go to specialists and I don't always do everything just right, but I also am not going to expect others to agree with me that's it's standard of care because it isn't. Is L/D and Denamarin for another month for no other testing wrong? In my opinion, it is. That is NOT to say that I would not do it, but I cannot agree that this is best. It is simply not what I see as standard of care.

Bullies don't leave threads when they have nothing else to say. And they certainly don't spend countless hours on YT trying to help people. We are busy people and give up time with our own families and pups to help.

It sounds like you are looking for some of us to agree with the decisions that have been made and say that they are okay. That is between you and your vet and you don't need our approval. Simply, I'm uneasy about the plan that has been made for Lucy and I can't say that it's the right thing to do. I can tell you that I think about Lucy often and hope she is okay.

It seems you starting getting upset when some people disagreed about the specialist you had chosen. Whether or not people here agree with the decisions you have made has nothing to do with their respect for you as a person. I don't see any personal attacks whatsoever in that thread.

[aproctor]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

I've come to the conclusion that some people (not pointing to anyone in particular, just making a general statement and I haven't read the particular thread in question) come to YT with the express purpose of hearing only what they want to hear. If someone gives an opposing opinion they immediately cry foul and say everyone is being rude or mean.

We all want to have our opinions/decisions validated. But in real life, that's not the way it works. Sometimes we are dead on right. But at other times times the decisions we make are wrong or misguided or even dangerous. That's when being open to alternative points of views can be not only helpful but life saving.

It's also important to remember that in the threads relating to illnesses and emergencies that nothing written there should EVER take the place of a hands on examination by a licensed vet, and in some cases, a specialist. A good vet should be confident enough in their own knowledge that they don't hesitate to send someone to a specialist for more intense testing or treatment. To relate it in human terms, I would never let an obstetrician put in a heart stent nor would I go to a cardiac surgeon to do a tubal ligation. Each of the docs has the same general knowledge, but they've chosen to focus their studies and practice in specific areas.

But back to the whole "they are being mean" thing... really people, it's time to grow up. Every time I see that written I just cringe. It feels so junior high. Getting caught up in what you perceive to be the tone rather than looking at the actual words ends up taking threads so far off topic that they aren't even recognizable any more. I sometimes wonder how people function in the real world when their feelings are so easily bruised. The ignore button can be your best friend if you really are that sensitive. Just use it with caution because you run the risk of missing out on some really helpful advice.

I am not that sensitive (if I was I would not have posted this for fear of people being mean to me) and I didn't write this just for me. If you look at my thread in S/I you will see that I do defend myself and don't take any crap from anyone and YES I AM A GROWNUP and I function VERY WELL thank you! But snide condescending remarks are uncalled for in the real world and are not necessary. This world is harsh enough we don't need to be harsh on people that don't deserve it.

The biggest issue I have is when people don't read what I write and come to some other conclusion themselves and then accuse me of not taking the advice that I was given when it is 100% UNTRUE.....if people take the time to comment then they should always know what they are commenting about and not take bits and pieces and try to make it sound like something it's not.

Maybe I grew up in a different world but I was taught by my parents to respect people and I do as long as they respect me!

[BabyGirl Rosie]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

As for LadyJane, I love, love, love the way her compassion for the dogs is always first and foremost. She speaks for those who don't have a voice.

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

It's all about interpretation. What one person decides is bullying or mean, the next person finds straight foward and to the point. Personally, I've come to the conclusion that when I post it's not about me but about the dogs. If my feelings get hurt it's only because I allowed them to.

As far as I am concerned, the only one who has the right to tell someone else they are being rude or bullying here is the admin and his designees.

I think the longer you are around here the easier it is to see this. You have to remember what some of these people have seen. LJ has seen more things than we can even begin to believe. You have to place your self in their position to understand why they are so passionate when they post. You can not allow your feelings to stand in the way. They are telling you what they THINK is in the best interest of the pup. Right or wrong, it is what they are giving for advice.

We also have to remember some of these posts, in my opinion, have been designed to "set up" YT members.

Again speaking personally, I love my vet and I think he is one of the best. However, he is not just a Yorkie vet. Many of these people have seen things that relate to Yorkies specifically. Sometimes I think experience means a lot. For example, I have a Masters degree with 6 years experience. Yet, I know some that have a Bachelors with 25 years experience. Guess who I go to for advice? Do I always follow it? No. Do I always agree with it? No. However, I do appreciate the fact that it is what they THINK I should do.

I think with any forum you will have to deal with this. I know some will think people are rude, bullying, aggressive, etc. while others will see it as helpful advice. It is just all about opinions.

Admin stays on top of the post and does handle any problems that occur. Rest assured that if there is an issue it will be taken care of. However, also keep in mind that they do understand that everyone has their own opinions.

[yorkietalkjilly]

To me, I think the OP participated in bullying by threatening to reports comments she considered to be rude or nasty. Threats and trying to intimidate or to force someone to do or not do something out of fear of retaliation or reprisal, is the very definition of bullying. So far, that is the only bullying I have seen.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by aproctor

I am not that sensitive (if I was I would not have posted this for fear of people being mean to me) and I didn't write this just for me. If you look at my thread in S/I you will see that I do defend myself and don't take any crap from anyone and YES I AM A GROWNUP and I function VERY WELL thank you! But snide condescending remarks are uncalled for in the real world and are not necessary. This world is harsh enough we don't need to be harsh on people that don't deserve it.

The biggest issue I have is when people don't read what I write and come to some other conclusion themselves and then accuse me of not taking the advice that I was given when it is 100% UNTRUE.....if people take the time to comment then they should always know what they are commenting about and not take bits and pieces and try to make it sound like something it's not.

Maybe I grew up in a different world but I was taught by my parents to respect people and I do as long as they respect me!

I for one have been guilty of reading the first couple of posts in a thread and responding without reading the following 350+ responses. That doesn't mean that someone is trying to make it sound like something it's not, just that things weren't clearly laid out in the first post.

Again, I want to know why it's ok to say some is being judgmental or calling someone a bully because you don't like what they posted. Isn't that being judgmental? Telling others how to word their posts so as not to offend YOUR sensibilities is exceedingly rude, IMO.

I moderate a board on a very controversial topic. Passions get inflammed and tempers flare. But never in that time has anyone EVER called someone else "mean" or a "bully" because they didn't like the "tone" in which something was written.

And I guess we did grow up in different worlds. My respect for people isn't dependent upon whether or not they respond in kind. I am grown up enough to let things go and realize that it's not all about me and my feelings.

[roseylovestosho]

I would love to see examples of what you consider bullying. Just copy paste them here, I'm sure those you consider to be "bullies" won't mind.