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Old 01-14-2012, 02:50 PM   #1
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Default Calling all Yorkie Pros - Advice Please!

Hello All, my name is Lynn and I am a perpetual lurker! I apologize in advance for not coming forward sooner...

One thing I am certain of is that many of you here are well versed and I often come here for info before anywhere else and most times the info I get here is spot on..

As You all know, it is difficult to see through the tears when something bad has happened to our own babies..So I have come here for advice because I can't wrap my head around it at all...

Brief Background: My Ms. Mini will be 7yrs young in June. She was, dare I say purchased- from a large pet store...yes I know, but hindsight is 20-/20 and I could write the book with what I know now. Ms. Mini, like many Yorkies has the sweetest disposition in the world. Unbeknownst to her she has been ill most of her life.. She is not suffering and I would never allow any of my furbabies to suffer - but this poor lil one is so happy and despite all her many problems. Also, there is no amount of money that could keep us from caring for her seemingly endless ailments which include/included - Major eye surgery within first 12 wks of life (forgot what it was called) legg parthes - and another major surgery to correct it, all of the puppy illnesses possible toxi??? (diahrrhea, hospitalization etc) worms, kennel cough, unexplained flu like episodes requiring hospitalizations, allergies that you can not comprehend. Ms. Mini has not gone three months without an illness requiring veterinary intervention.

OK on to the problem:
This past Thursday I purchased a Biewer Yorkie from a very nice family who love their 2 Biewers to pieces, they are wealthy and were not breeding them for the $$, the owner *Mr Smith* literally choked up when we were leaving. I did all the right things I asked to see parents and papers and write ups from the vet for puppy "Ms. Mia", I went to the home and (it was a sprawling beautiful home- picture mansion) not one single thing was bad - and it was NOT a too good to be true situation..just down to earth good people.

(Sorry for so many details and your patience)

Today, less than 48 hrs later I decided to have my "Ms. Mia" (who seemed perfectly healthy and well trained to boot, for a 10 wk. old puppy) - seen by my vet to go over the paperwork and just to be sure all was well - given I've such bad luck in the past, it seemed the right thing to do right?

After much oohing and ahhhing by the staff my wonderful vet began the exam - and ultimately found that the this poor baby had a very prominent arrythmia and heart murmur. On a scale of 1 to 6 - it was a 4.

Upon the vets advice, I left Ms. Mia there and she will have all the tests that I CAN'T AFFORD, but none the less am doing- to be 100% sure of what were dealing with.

Upfront, please let me say I am 100% sure I was not "scammed" I am absolutely sure that these down to earth crying at the door former owners were absolutely convinced (by their non-reputable vet) that they were waving good bye to a healthy puppy! Also, the second puppy (the runt) has the same exact condition with a 5 on the same 1-6 scale. Yes on Monday, after the testing I will notify them etc..

What I am looking for, through tears, is any and all wisdom you wonderful people have regarding anything like this/these conditions... I am looking for honest and open - blunt advice. You have all helped me unknowingly, many times in the past...thank you...please help now! I will respond and remain a Yorkietalk NON-lurker from now on! Thank you one and all!
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Old 01-14-2012, 03:36 PM   #2
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Well I think you need to think about returning the pup and get your money back as hard as that would be. You already have one sick pup and the finance and emotional of a 2nd one may be too much. Did the vet tell you the prognosis on a murmur of that scale
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Old 01-14-2012, 03:43 PM   #3
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Hi and Welcome to YT! (wish it was under better circumstances though) Many Yorkies (Biewers too) outgrow murmurs, but if it is a congenital heart condition, depending on your vet's findings, that won't happen and your pup may need medication and or surgery to manage the condition or repair the heart, if that's an option.Keeping your pup in my prayers for the best test results....
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Old 01-14-2012, 03:43 PM   #4
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I am so sorry that your puppy is sick
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Old 01-14-2012, 04:17 PM   #5
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I certainly hope that you received a health guarantee with this pup. Even if you did not, if those people are as wonderful as you say and have that sprawling mansion that you described, surely they will pay Mia's veterinary costs. Or...you could probably return her, but it did not sound like you wish to do that.

As for heart conditions in puppies, some are repairable and some are not. I hate to say I hope a pup has something, but if it were my puppy I would hope it is a PDA which does happen in yorkies and can be surgically repaired.....not cheap! Probably in the neighborhood of $3,500.

We have a puppy in our rescue that had a grade 6 murmur and we had hoped for PDA, but it turned out to be Pulmonic Stenosis...not surgically repairable.

Why did the vet feel he should keep your pup? Is she in a 24 hour hospital? If not, I would take her home and follow up with a cardiologist.

Nice to "meet" you....will keep your puppy in my thoughts and prayers.
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Old 01-14-2012, 04:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Well I think you need to think about returning the pup and get your money back as hard as that would be. You already have one sick pup and the finance and emotional of a 2nd one may be too much. Did the vet tell you the prognosis on a murmur of that scale
Thank you for replying. (Hope I am doing this right). I will not return the dog to the owner, 48 hours and the attachment is complete! The finance and emotional are def too much...but, the turmoil of turning her over would be greater. I would rather see it through to the end; whichever end that may be.

I will however, ask for a refund and provide the former owner with the paperwork from my vet to validate my request, I really don't believe there will be any problem from them.

The Vet did not pull any punches, however; she admitted that she would rather a specialist look over the echocardiogram. Tests and prognosis should be complete Monday.

I'm just wondering if anyone has ever heard of a yorkie having both these issues - murmur and arythmia, and if so what was their experience etc.

Thanks again,
Lynn
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Old 01-14-2012, 04:26 PM   #7
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Oh...and I suppose she could outgrow this murmur, but that is a pretty loud one. Please keep us posted!
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Old 01-14-2012, 05:46 PM   #8
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KJC & Micah My Love - Thank you for replying, and for your continued prayers and support, it means alot to me right now.
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Old 01-14-2012, 05:53 PM   #9
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Hi and welcome to YT.
Sorry to hear about your new baby. Has your vet referred you to a cardiologist to confirm his suspicion? If not, you should take her to a specialist in cardiology, as I know from experience, you need more than one person just telling you your baby has a condition by listening with a stethescope. I am a little confused though, if your breeder doesn't know about this yet, how did you know that the sibling in the litter has a murmer?
Did the breeder know this and tell you before you bought a pup from them?
I might not be understanding your post, but am not sure why your vet is keeping your Mia when she should be seen and tested for this by a cardiologist, not a general vet, imo.
Congratulations on your new Biewer, they are wonderful little furbutts!
Will send wishes that a visit to a cardiologist gives you more concrete information/answers and that your new little girl is going to be ok
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:10 PM   #10
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Oh...and I suppose she could outgrow this murmur, but that is a pretty loud one. Please keep us posted!
My kitten had a bad murmur, so bad they refused to do surgery on him (neuter). Finally, when he matured, I couldn't deal with the male cat urine stench any longer, and told the vet to do it anyway. What would be, would be. She took a listen and looked up at me and said 'What murmur?" He sailed through his surgery fine, he was crypto so it lasted a bit longer and different drugs and all...It also depends on the type of arrhythmia: sinus arrhythmia is a normal finding in dogs and horses. When they breathe in, the heart rate increases, and decreases when they breathe out.Many puppies have mild heart murmur (not over Grade 3) which dissappear by 6 months of age. As your vet graded your dog's at a 4, maybe get a second opinion. Does the pup show any symptoms of distress? Panting, easily tires (hard to tell bc puppies sleep alot anyway), pale gums?
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:24 PM   #11
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Oh so sorry that your new little one is sick. You are both in my thoughts and prayers and please let us know how she is doing!!! I know how quickly they get wrapped around your heart and so happy you are planning on seeing this through!!
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:25 PM   #12
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Omg, thank you all for your replies, I knew this is where I needed to be! Truly Thank You.

I have been going back and forth looking up info you are providing (PDA, Pulmonic Stenosis etc., ) I am so not well versed.

I purchased both females from this litter of 3 (1 male, 2 females).
I purchased 1 for my coworker and 1 for myself.

The owner insisted on taking the pups to the vet before agreeing to let me purchase them. Called me all excited and proud that they were healthy, had first shots and their weights. Owner did give to me the vet report. I called the Vet and was told the same info. right from the chart.

To be sure, because of my experience with Ms. Mini I wanted my vet to look over the pups just to put my mind at ease.

Both pups presented with heart murmur and arythmia immediately upon examination! My Vet said this was obviously congenital and and was visibly stunned and saddened by this obvious overlook by the other vet.

They are keeping our pups for the weekend to run the tests as a favor to me - I have developed a good professional relationship with my Vet(s) and all of the staff. This was a unique circumstance and they reached out to me to keep them to do the tests and to be sure the Cardiologist would see them first thing Monday morning.

So you see I really have little hope of a positive outcome but find solace in all of your well wishes and prayers and with all the support from the vets (never saw that coming) I want to keep the hope...

Still any info. anyone can provide re: pup(s) with both murmurs and arythmias would be appreciated.

Thank you all so much!
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:38 PM   #13
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Oh and yes it is a 24 hr. hospital and I have already received pics of the special treatment they are receiving!

The vet was visibly disturbed she truly was unable to hide her immediate red face and quick look of shock. She was demonstrative on the sounds she was hearing and spent considerable time with each pup. She is truly a professional and I have seen her through many an emergency so I can read her=stunned. Even though she said she believed it to be very bad she has seen other cases where they were ok etc., she did emphasize that she knows what shes hearing but would not want to be wrong (and hoped she was) and this is why she deferred to the cardiologist.

I insist on open and blunt conversations with them, they know this and so she was.

I had the pup for 36 hrs in my home (all of which I spent with her). I saw mostly normal behaviors; however, looking back she would have spurts of energy and just stop and go into her "home" - even if I was sitting right on the floor with her. Other than that she ate, peed and bm'd just fine.

And definitely a little heart catcher! Just adorably sweet with some oh so cute mannerisms...just love at first sight!
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:42 PM   #14
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Oh so sorry that your new little one is sick. You are both in my thoughts and prayers and please let us know how she is doing!!! I know how quickly they get wrapped around your heart and so happy you are planning on seeing this through!!
I wouldn't have it any other way. I am far from rich and have a "special needs" lil girl right now..but I have to see this little girl through.

Honestly, I believe the owner will want to pay etc., but even if he don't I think I was at the right place at the right time for these two little girls...They are truly loved in a huge way..! Thanks for your support!
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:43 PM   #15
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I just wanted to welcome you to the forum. I'm so sorry to hear all that you have had to go through with your Ms. Mini and pray for good news for Ms. Mia and her sister.
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