Opinion on "Black Spots"

[ladyjane]

I just called my vet and she is out today. I asked the girl at the front desk to ask one of the other vets about this. I don't know for sure if a biopsy is needed. All I know is that it was not done for Dixie's diagnosis.

Did you explain to the derm office that she is covered with these spots and that you think it might be a reaction to rabies? They might squeeze you in.

[Nancy1999]

Here's some more information.

Cutaneous vasculitis A little known and often misdiagnosed reaction to the rabies vaccine in dogs, this problem may develop near or over the vaccine administration site and around the vaccine material that was injected, or as a more widespread reaction. Symptoms include ulcers, scabs, darkening of the skin, lumps at the vaccine site, and scarring with loss of hair. In addition to the vaccination site, lesions most often develop on the ear flaps (pinnae), on the elbows and hocks, in the center of the footpads and on the face. Scarring may be permanent. Dogs do not usually seem ill, but may develop fever. Symptoms may show up within weeks of vaccination, or may take months to develop noticeably.

Dogs with active lesion development and / or widespread disease may be treated with pentoxyfylline, a drug that is useful in small vessel vasculitis, or tacrolimus, an ointment that will help suppress the inflammation in the affected areas.

Owners and veterinarians of dogs who have developed this type of reaction should review the vaccination protocol critically and try to reduce future vaccinations to the extent medically and legally possible. At the very least, vaccines from the same manufacturer should be avoided. It is also recommended that the location in which future vaccinations are administered should be changed to the rear leg, as far down on the leg as possible and should be given in the muscle rather than under the skin. Vaccination of dogs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Best of luck finding an answer.

[ladyjane]

That information is very limited. There are other sites and they also have about the same...but the treatment varies.
Sometimes they use the pentoxyfylline and prednisone....and sometimes only the prednisone.
That gal did not call me back. And, I forgot but will call in the morning.

[Teresa Ford]

Thank You for the information. I am following this thread. Please update when you can.

[smartpuppiepets]

Looking at the pictures i have no words of wisdom, never experienced or saw anything like it. But i am glad the OP posted it and some members can give some opinions.
I will follow it closely of course!
Blessings !
XOXO

[Bitsy's Mom]

You guys are awesome. My vet won't be in until Thursday so I called them for a referral to the dermatologist. Called the Vet Speciality Clinic in Aurora, IL and they can't get us in until 9-12!!! I told them that wouldn't do. They put me on a waiting list.

I called back later in the day and explained some more details about Emee. The girl put me on hold and came back to tell me to bring Emee in tomorrow!!! I will let them know your suggestions but I bet they will be able to recognize the problem as soon as they see her.

Thanks everyone for all your advice and tons of information. I will report back tomorrow.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Bitsy's Mom

You guys are awesome. My vet won't be in until Thursday so I called them for a referral to the dermatologist. Called the Vet Speciality Clinic in Aurora, IL and they can't get us in until 9-12!!! I told them that wouldn't do. They put me on a waiting list.

I called back later in the day and explained some more details about Emee. The girl put me on hold and came back to tell me to bring Emee in tomorrow!!! I will let them know your suggestions but I bet they will be able to recognize the problem as soon as they see her.

Thanks everyone for all your advice and tons of information. I will report back tomorrow.

Good luck! I will be looking for an update tomorrow.

[ArmaniMan]

So glad you were able to get her in sooner- I hope you are able to figure out what is wrong with her.

[Lisa and Pic]

Originally Posted by Bitsy's Mom

You guys are awesome. My vet won't be in until Thursday so I called them for a referral to the dermatologist. Called the Vet Speciality Clinic in Aurora, IL and they can't get us in until 9-12!!! I told them that wouldn't do. They put me on a waiting list.

I called back later in the day and explained some more details about Emee. The girl put me on hold and came back to tell me to bring Emee in tomorrow!!! I will let them know your suggestions but I bet they will be able to recognize the problem as soon as they see her.

Thanks everyone for all your advice and tons of information. I will report back tomorrow.

Yea! So glad you have an appointment quickly. That is exactly what I did too, when I was trying to get Piccolo into the Vet Dermatologist (squeaky wheel so to speak).

Good luck and hope you get answers today.

[Lisa and Pic]

Originally Posted by Bitsy's Mom

Thank you all for your responses. I am really surprised that my vet would not have discussed cutaneous vasculitis with me! It definately sounds like it is a possibility that needs to be looked into. My vet is not in until Thursday so I went ahead and call the Dermatologist. They said the soonest they can see her is 9-12-11. No way!

I am waiting to hear back from them. In the meantime I still have an appointment with my vet for Thursday.

If it is cutaneous vasculitis, is a biopsy necessary? Will the biopsy just rule out other things or will it diagnose the cutaneous vasculitis ?I am so worried.

Just wanted to add one more thing about your question. For Piccolo, it was necessary for her to have a biopsy (in fact she had three in different areas) to diagnose the cutaneous vasculitis.

For us, the first trip to the Vet Dermatologist was expensive, but overall it was less money than the money we spent going to the regular vet each week as he ruled things out for Piccolo. My vet was not very familiar with this disease, so I do think Piccolo was a learning experience for him. Your vet might be the same, and that is why this disease might not have been discussed.

[Bitsy's Mom]

Originally Posted by Lisa and Pic

Just wanted to add one more thing about your question. For Piccolo, it was necessary for her to have a biopsy (in fact she had three in different areas) to diagnose the cutaneous vasculitis.

For us, the first trip to the Vet Dermatologist was expensive, but overall it was less money than the money we spent going to the regular vet each week as he ruled things out for Piccolo. My vet was not very familiar with this disease, so I do think Piccolo was a learning experience for him. Your vet might be the same, and that is why this disease might not have been discussed.

I am sure that the Vet Dermatologist is going to be $$$. We were ready to do the biopsy at the vet anyway which was going to be expensive. My hope is that the Vet Dermatologist might be able to diagnose without the biopsy.

Here is my question....will a biopsy identify cutaneous vasculitis or does it just rule out other things? If it will identify the disease I am fine with doihg it. I am just tired of spending money for tests that all come back negative. It's like hunting for a needle in a haystack.

Also....I think the world of my vet but this has got her stumped. If fact, she is doing research on this so she might already be aware of cutaneous vasculitis at point. I just rather see someone who is familiar with the disease.

Thanks for all the help.

[beachdog]

Good Luck at the doctor. I am no help here but ready to learn along with you about this condition. This site is so great for learning things that might effect our babies.

www.paristheblindwonderdog.blogspot.com

[Lisa and Pic]

Originally Posted by Bitsy's Mom

I am sure that the Vet Dermatologist is going to be $$$. We were ready to do the biopsy at the vet anyway which was going to be expensive. My hope is that the Vet Dermatologist might be able to diagnose without the biopsy.

Here is my question....will a biopsy identify cutaneous vasculitis or does it just rule out other things? If it will identify the disease I am fine with doihg it. I am just tired of spending money for tests that all come back negative. It's like hunting for a needle in a haystack.

Also....I think the world of my vet but this has got her stumped. If fact, she is doing research on this so she might already be aware of cutaneous vasculitis at point. I just rather see someone who is familiar with the disease.

Thanks for all the help.

I am obviously not a vet and racking my brain trying to remember about the biopsies. I believe Dr. Bruner (Vet Dermatologist) diagnosed the cutaneous vasculitis through the biopsies. She sent one to an East Coast Lab and it came back as something odd for Yorkies. (Dermatomyositis) She sent another to another lab - west coast - and it came back cutaneous vasculitis. But she sent me home with the prednisone and pentoxyfylline medicine that day before the lab results came in, after a discussion and my desire to get things started. However, she did tell me that some tick diseases and also mange can present in a similar fashion, and she looked at those problems on that first office visit before zeroing in on the vasculitis.

I know these initial tests are expensive, but I would have done anything to find out what was wrong with Piccolo and get her better and I imagine you feel the same way too. After those initial tests the vet bills were very reasonable.

Whatever happens, just glad you are going to a specialist that has more training in these areas. Will be checking back to see how things go today. Hugs.

[yorkieusa]

I hope you got some answers today.

[Bitsy's Mom]

Emee saw the Derm Vet today and based upon the exam alone she felt very confident it is ...... cutaneous vasculitis! You guys are awesome!

The vet suggested a skin biopsy to confirm but after a lengthly discussion, it was decided to wait and see how Emee responds to treatment first. Emee will be on Pentoxifylline 25 mg twice a day for 8 weeks. She will be recheck in 6 weeks or sooner if needed. Vet thinks she will be fine after the treatment held off on a final diagnosis without a biopsy.

The doctor explained that the coat change was due to inflammation near the hair follicles. She expects the dark spots to stop growing after the meds are started and they will begin to lessen in size. She said this could take 8 to 12 weeks. She thinks that the sight of the rabies shot might result in a scarr and remain with no hair. At this point, I am okay with that since all I want is for her to get well. The vet did not find any lessions on her ear, paws or elbows and thinks she will respond well to the med.

So she will start the Penntaxifylline tomorrow - no steriods - and we will see if she starts to change back to her gray coloring. Also, the vet strongly recommends that Emee not receive any future rabies vacinations as they could result in a more significant/severe reaction.

Thank you all for your help. My husband was resistant to go to the expensive animal hospital but afterward said he was glad we went. These guys knew right away what was going on....and so did you! Thanks for all the well wishes and hugs. XOXOX for Emee and CJ