Jackson's not feeling well. :(

[diannenet]

Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Original Ultra Reduced Calorie Formula for Dogs[/QUOTE]

Brit, I had Toby on this food the entire time I was trying to get his weight down due to his LP and it was wonderful. He had no issues with it whatsoever and ate it right up. But then he's not a picky eater. If it's on the floor and he can beat Speedy to whatever is dropped, he will eat it. I've always had good luck with NB. I just recently switched to Taste of the Wild as it only has 313 calories but I may switch back to NB as a rotator food.

[Lisa and Pic]

Just seeing this because we have been out of town.

Glad things are going better. Pancreatitis can be such a scary illness. Heart warming that you have page after page of concerned YorkieTalk members showing support.

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Another food used for dissolution of stones that is even worse in terms of low protein and high fat is the Hill's S/D diet. I refused to use this food for Teddy when he had struvites, which I was later told was a smart move and was provided another product to do the the same thing as that diet w/o the fat.

I believe that these are the types of food to which the author is referring and these foods would never be used in a pancreatitis dog. My own dog is on moderate protein (23%) and very low fat (3%). I was worried about very low fat, but in the 17 months since he had pancreatitis, his coat is shiny and thick and his skin is supple and not dry, but even if it was, I would not care because I'd rather have him here with me for many more years than to have him look like a fashion plate.

By the way, the author of those WDJ articles is a layperson and not a vet (see, DogAware.com: About DogAware.com). I have read WDJ for years, I enjoy the articles but I would not want to listen to Mary's advice for my sick dogs.

Now it all makes more sense to me. Thank you for mentioning these foods and explaining it!

[BonBon]

Nancy linked this site on another thread this afternoon, and it makes the same statement The Dog Food Project - Myths about Dog Nutrition,

"According to veterinary literature, the most common causes for pancreatitis are
a high fat, low protein diet"

I thought I understood it from Cathy's explanation of RX foods, but neither article even mentions an RX diet. And of course, no sources for the veterinary literature are cited.

I don't know why this one point is bothering me, maybe because it's opposite to what I always thought.

Right now I'm feeding a grain-inclusive food that I like, that all my pups like and that they're all doing very well on (it's 26% protein, 14% fat and 391 calories). I've rotated foods in the past but I've really liked this food and I don't plan on making any changes to their diet - but I still like to know as much as I can. Like most everyone here, I just want my little ones to be healthy and happy. Jackson's little adventure shook me up!

[Ellie May]

Well, the article is already flawed because it says high fat, low protein "caused" pancreatitis. Nobody knows what causes the predisposition. Certain foods are associated with the development of pancreatitis, but there is thought to be an underlying factor.

These articles are saying high fat, low protein diets caused pancreatitis, yet that's just it. Low protein or not, these were still high fat diets.

A 26% protein and 14% diet shouldn't irritate things unless it was completely bound to happen. I wouldn't worry about changing a food on those grounds. I'd be much more concerned about a company's trustworthiness or lack thereof.

[_Chrissy_]

Originally Posted by BonBon

Jackson's little adventure shook me up!

ME TOO!
Now I don't now what to feed any more
Was on Acana and TOTW.
Now I'm thinking maybe I need to go lower protein/fat or higher protein/fat or SOMETHING.
I just don't know any more.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by BonBon

Nancy linked this site on another thread this afternoon, and it makes the same statement The Dog Food Project - Myths about Dog Nutrition,

"According to veterinary literature, the most common causes for pancreatitis are
a high fat, low protein diet"

I thought I understood it from Cathy's explanation of RX foods, but neither article even mentions an RX diet. And of course, no sources for the veterinary literature are cited.

I don't know why this one point is bothering me, maybe because it's opposite to what I always thought.

Right now I'm feeding a grain-inclusive food that I like, that all my pups like and that they're all doing very well on (it's 26% protein, 14% fat and 391 calories). I've rotated foods in the past but I've really liked this food and I don't plan on making any changes to their diet - but I still like to know as much as I can. Like most everyone here, I just want my little ones to be healthy and happy. Jackson's little adventure shook me up!

That's funny, I hadn't read that on that site, but my mom had pancreatitis, and I always suspected a high carb high fat diet. After she had several bouts with this, she developed diabetes, the pancreas makes insulin, and hers stopped making it, but like most diseases, there’s usually more than one causal factor. Does anyone know if dogs who’ve had pancreatitis are more likely to develop diabetes?

[Ellie May]

Yes, dogs with recurrent or chronic pancreatitis are at high risk for diabetes.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Yes, dogs with recurrent or chronic pancreatitis are at high risk for diabetes.

Thank you, so would it follow, that a diet that is healthy for a diabetic dog would be a healthy diet for a dog prone to pancreatitis?

[Britster]

Thanks for all the great info in this thread! I just read thru the recent posts.

I am getting so frustrated because we aren't seemingly getting anywhere, yet I'm still spending lots of money

The vet we saw today seems a bit puzzled herself. She said his lipase levels may still be slightly high due to something else... maybe an underlying issue or something. She finds it odd that he's not displaying any other symptoms of pancreatitis anymore, except the higher lipase levels. I liked this vet a lot better, she answered my questions with ease and explained things thoroughly and was really more compassionate.

So they are going to take his blood tomorrow, after fasting Jackson for 12hrs, and send it out to a lab which will take a few days. It's the test that Cathy (I think?) was talking about a few pages back. Hopefully this will give us more accurate results.

I am over at my dads house today with him (I actually asked the vet if this would be okay, LOL, since there is other dogs there, etc). My little brother is leaving Thursday for NC with my dad and stepmom and I already hadn't seen him for 2 weeks so didn't want another week to go by. But Jackson is chilling, I'm not letting him in the backyard off leash, so he won't get in the pool, and he's laying with his 'brother' Dachshund mix, Buddy, right now. He seemed extremely happy to see Lilly and Buddy as well as his 'human' sibling. Vet did advise not to be outside for long periods of time since it's so hot outside anyways and he can so easily dehydrate.

I take him tomorrow at 3pm for the bloodwork to be sent out to the lab. I'll give him his last meal tonight around 8pm or so...

[Ellie May]

I'm sorry Brit. This is a tough case.

Ellie's lipase runs high, but her cPL (pancreas specific) is fine. The lipase can be up for different reasons. But with him dehydrating just the other day, I'd venture to say something is still not right with his pancreas. Something just sounds off.

___________________________________________
Nancy, I don't know about that, but will flip through to see what the experts recommend for diabetic patients.

___________________________________________
Message from Cathy:
Barney was on 36% protein and 22% fat when he had an episode (so not low protein).

____________________________________________
Ellie was on 24% protein and 18% fat when she got an episode (acutally two episodes) so not low protein there either.

BTW, the term low protein is highly variable. I don't think anybody would say to restrict a pancreatitis patient to 15% or something like that. Staying under 31+% seems to be considered appropriate for most.

If the lipase does not come down, esp. if the cPL is off, I would be talking to a veterinary nutritionist about what to do if the vet is having trouble figuring this out. They may be able to help. Also, if they can't normalize lipase and cPL is up, it would be a good reason to see a specialist.

Hoping it comes down soon. In house lipase is not something I put too much faith in.

[Britster]

Thanks, Crystal.

The cPL... I'm assuming that is the test they are sending out for? I am pretty sure that is what she said. Said it was some kind of specific pancreatitis test or whatever.

I kind of wish they would have done this today, rather than doing bloodwork in-house, because it was another $120 or so today for them to basically tell me the same thing they've been telling me...

[Taryn0405]

Originally Posted by Britster

Thanks, Crystal.

The cPL... I'm assuming that is the test they are sending out for? I am pretty sure that is what she said. Said it was some kind of specific pancreatitis test or whatever.

I kind of wish they would have done this today, rather than doing bloodwork in-house, because it was another $120 or so today for them to basically tell me the same thing they've been telling me...

I'm Brit. I know this is very discouraging. Sending prayers for you and Mr. Jackson. Hope you guys can get everything straightened out.

[Ellie May]

Yup. Unless it's an emergency, we do not do bloods or urine in-house. You get more (results and accuracy) sometimes even for less $. My vet also sends her dogs' labs out.

The cPL is pancreas specfic and should give you some answers. It's really the standard for diagnosing pancreatitis.

[Britster]

He's now had THREE bloodwork tests at this vet, all between $120-$145 (because they also charge for vet exam, blood test, etc). *sigh* I hope I wasn't being raked over....

I don't understand why they wouldn't have done a cPL test when I went for our first initial re-check after being hospitalized.