Waitng, waiting, waiting, waiting for results...

[manolos mom]

Sorry to hear about your baby. The prices are so high because of the area you live in. Baltimore is a very expensive city. Maybe a 9 hour drive for you to Tennesee would be the way to go. Good luck to you and your baby! You will be in my prayers...

[kjc]

Originally Posted by 107barney

[/B]

These prices seem so high. I don't know what the going rate is, but if UT is significantly less expensive, that is probably the way to go. At least you have an appointment so one step closer to resolution for Tink. I hope she remains stable until then. It might also be worth calling the place on Cape Cod where LittleLily just went with her dog. Do they have any idea if they can remove the kidney stones?

Originally Posted by manolos mom

Sorry to hear about your baby. The prices are so high because of the area you live in. Baltimore is a very expensive city. Maybe a 9 hour drive for you to Tennesee would be the way to go. Good luck to you and your baby! You will be in my prayers...

Ha! I am SCREWED! I don't remember ever seeing this on the UT site:

Unfortunately, we do not have the funds to provide free or low-cost care to our clients. The UT Veterinary Medical Center is regulated by a state "fair competition" clause, and thus our fees are comparable to those of regional specialty private clinics.

I think this means they've raised their prices.... anybody got a number that'll go through on the weekends?

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Aww

That's a lot of UTIs, esp. with such high BA. I wonder if it has been in there the whole time. Any urination issues in a pup with high BA really require an ultrasound asap. Ellie has a Hx of UTIs. She had a u/s after we felt like a UTI of hers wasn't clearing up quite right. Now we know (since it was clean) that there is no important medical reason why she had weird peeing behavior).

I'd really wonder with her sore abdomen if she is in pain from it. Her u/a clean?

I don't believe she's that painful at all. No, her U/As always came back w/crystals, but cleared after the AB therapy. Her BA was 126 post when this all started. I did insist on an xray early on to check for liver size and bladder stones. At that time I was not aware of amonium urates not showing on xray, only on U/S. After being involved with LittleLily's case, I realized the problem and had the U/S done asap.

I could cry. Everything, and I mean everything I've heard or read since I got Tink and joined here and started researching Liver Shunts, and what vets have said (third party info and my own) is that the U/S is done to see if there is a shunt, how many and the location, and to determine if the shunt was operable, and best done by the surgeon doing the surgery, as shunts can be difficult to find unless the person doing the U/S was very experienced in finding shunts. I was told I could manage her on diet and meds, and ABs when needed for UTIs. Nothing was ever mentioned about the kidneys, other than some dogs form kidney stones, but not all. Well, live and learn.

I have also read that once the Liver Shunt is repaired, the kidney stones would resolve on their own, as the amonia will then be removed by the liver, hence changing the environment in the kidneys, making it less stone friendly and what was there would disolve on their own. Thoughts? (And I will be discussing this with the surgeon).

[107barney]

Originally Posted by kjc

Ha! I am SCREWED! I don't remember ever seeing this on the UT site:

Unfortunately, we do not have the funds to provide free or low-cost care to our clients. The UT Veterinary Medical Center is regulated by a state "fair competition" clause, and thus our fees are comparable to those of regional specialty private clinics.

I think this means they've raised their prices.... anybody got a number that'll go through on the weekends?



I don't believe she's that painful at all. No, her U/As always came back w/crystals, but cleared after the AB therapy. Her BA was 126 post when this all started. I did insist on an xray early on to check for liver size and bladder stones. At that time I was not aware of amonium urates not showing on xray, only on U/S. After being involved with LittleLily's case, I realized the problem and had the U/S done asap.

I could cry. Everything, and I mean everything I've heard or read since I got Tink and joined here and started researching Liver Shunts, and what vets have said (third party info and my own) is that the U/S is done to see if there is a shunt, how many and the location, and to determine if the shunt was operable, and best done by the surgeon doing the surgery, as shunts can be difficult to find unless the person doing the U/S was very experienced in finding shunts. I was told I could manage her on diet and meds, and ABs when needed for UTIs. Nothing was ever mentioned about the kidneys, other than some dogs form kidney stones, but not all. Well, live and learn.

I have also read that once the Liver Shunt is repaired, the kidney stones would resolve on their own, as the amonia will then be removed by the liver, hence changing the environment in the kidneys, making it less stone friendly and what was there would disolve on their own. Thoughts? (And I will be discussing this with the surgeon).

I've always said (and this has not been too popular on here) that I'd go a first step with an ultrasound and took the view that an experienced reader (i.e. board certified radiologist) had a good chance and finding a shunt. I believe (and this is only my opinion and not based on data) that vets are not finding shunts on u/s because REGULAR vets are doing it and not highly skilled u/s readers or BC radiologists. I have stated over and over that u/s gave very detailed information on my Daisy's liver and last week again u/s gave us information on Barney's liver. Shunts CAN and ARE picked up by u/s depending on the reader and it is the very least expensive and invasive option. At worst you are $185 poorer (Northeast pricing of $150 u/s + $35 radiology consult) but at best you learn some detailed information. An ultrasound done in a specialty hospital will ALWAYS be an ABDOMINAL ultrasound and looks at EVERYTHING. I know all about all of Barney's organs from last week's ultrasound from his liver to his pancreas to his kidneys to his stomach to his adrenal glands.

I am sorry your research led to this result. I think it is part of the danger on reading things in a vacuum and doing our own research without having the clinical training and education to back us up. But, it doesn't matter now what you read, what your research revealed, what your conclusions were, or any of that. You now have a diagnosis, a clear clinical picture, and a recommendation by a veterinarian. You are stepping up for the dog now and that is what counts in my book. You need to take this matter to completion, for the best interest of the dog, and one way or another she needs treatment. If you can't afford it, you have options and so does Tinkerbell.

On the pricing on UT's site, I think they are saying their prices are in line with private clinics in their region, which may still be lower than your area.

Oh and on the surgery, I'd get the kidney stones out at the same time if they were able to do so. I know this jacks the cost but I'd rather do that than risk that their may not be dissolution on their own or putting the dog through major invasive surgery twice.

I wished your news was better for you and Tinkerbell. I will keep you both in my prayers.

[teacup0819]

I am sorry that your Tink needs surgery. I also know that any surgery can be very expensive. The only option I can suggest is Care Credit. At least you can pay off your balance without interest charges for a period of time. This is what we did when we had a huge vet hospital bill. Hugs to Tink and yourself...

[Ellie May]

Scintography is better for a definitive shunt dx, but I get reallllly nervous when I see people say not to do ultrasounds. The are particularly important if there are urinary symptoms present (and there were). This is why it's best to get under the care of an IMS asap when the high bile acids are discovered and follow their lead. We just aren't trained to know how to manage something like this and avery few people on YT have enough of a scientific background to be able to interpret studies effectively. So anyway, I'm not really sure why people are saying u/s isn't ever indicated in LS.

I would guess UT is still much, much cheaper than the price above.

[Lolasmom1211]

Originally Posted by kjc

Ha! I am SCREWED! I don't remember ever seeing this on the UT site:

Unfortunately, we do not have the funds to provide free or low-cost care to our clients. The UT Veterinary Medical Center is regulated by a state "fair competition" clause, and thus our fees are comparable to those of regional specialty private clinics.

I think this means they've raised their prices.... anybody got a number that'll go through on the weekends?



I don't believe she's that painful at all. No, her U/As always came back w/crystals, but cleared after the AB therapy. Her BA was 126 post when this all started. I did insist on an xray early on to check for liver size and bladder stones. At that time I was not aware of amonium urates not showing on xray, only on U/S. After being involved with LittleLily's case, I realized the problem and had the U/S done asap.

I could cry. Everything, and I mean everything I've heard or read since I got Tink and joined here and started researching Liver Shunts, and what vets have said (third party info and my own) is that the U/S is done to see if there is a shunt, how many and the location, and to determine if the shunt was operable, and best done by the surgeon doing the surgery, as shunts can be difficult to find unless the person doing the U/S was very experienced in finding shunts. I was told I could manage her on diet and meds, and ABs when needed for UTIs. Nothing was ever mentioned about the kidneys, other than some dogs form kidney stones, but not all. Well, live and learn.

I have also read that once the Liver Shunt is repaired, the kidney stones would resolve on their own, as the amonia will then be removed by the liver, hence changing the environment in the kidneys, making it less stone friendly and what was there would disolve on their own. Thoughts? (And I will be discussing this with the surgeon).

I definitely think you need to call UT tomorrow and ask about their prices. I had my Lola's surgery done there, including having her spayed, and having several baby teeth removed...they also sent her home with meds that she would need for the next several weeks. The price included scintigraphy, the surgery & ameroid ring placement, hospitalization, etc. and Dr Tobias' expertise - and it was all around $1800.00. They have round the clock after care and special heated little beds during the surgery and they do many of these a week...I'm sure you've heard all of this before!

[Lizzie07]

I'm just now reading this. I am so sorry to hear Tinkerbell has a shunt and will have to have surgery. I hate it when I have to have any kind of procedure done on my dogs and I can't imagine the worry you must be feeling. I hope everything goes well and that Tink is well very soon. Our prayers are with her.

[Princes mom]

I'm so sorry to hear about Tinkerbell. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

[ladyjane]

Prayers for Tinkerbell.

[megansmomma]

Poor Tinkerbell. It sounds like you have some very tough decisions to make in order to get Tink the care that she needs. I'm very sorry that you are faced with all of this and you that you will find the funding to move forward with treatment for your little one.

[ladyjane]

While it will not put a dent in this bill, another option to consider is to ask your vet if you might be eligible for a grant from AAHA. AAHA member veterinarians can apply for a grant for a client....I think they are about $500. I had read it on their website one day. Might be an avenue to consider for some assistance.

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Scintography is better for a definitive shunt dx, but I get reallllly nervous when I see people say not to do ultrasounds. The are particularly important if there are urinary symptoms present (and there were). This is why it's best to get under the care of an IMS asap when the high bile acids are discovered and follow their lead. We just aren't trained to know how to manage something like this and avery few people on YT have enough of a scientific background to be able to interpret studies effectively. So anyway, I'm not really sure why people are saying u/s isn't ever indicated in LS.

I would guess UT is still much, much cheaper than the price above.

I agree! When I had Manolo checked we had Scintography, cost me about $200 to $300 dollars, cant remember. I dont think UT has gone up. I believe the price use to be $1200.

[lil fu fu girl]

Keeping Tinkerbell in my thoughts and prayers!

[Wylie's Mom]

I just wanted to let you know I am thinking about you and Tinkerbell. Lots of hugs...I can't imagine the stress and worry you're under.

[kjc]

Thanks again to everyone for the thoughts, well wishes, prayers and suggestions....

I did call UT yesterday but I had to leave a message... they will call me back.

Then I called Care Credit, as I have had a card with $2000. on it for about a year now, but I've never had to use it. Well, they closed the account! I went back online and filed for another one, which was approved for $1000. I just got off the phone with them and explained I needed to increase the credit to $4000. to cover my dog's surgery and they refused the increase. Oh yeah, love them credit card companies... makes total sense.

Oh and UT did call back.... they did increase their prices by $500, and due 10% more at the end of the month.

And for the good news... both my vet and UT said that the kidney stones do not need to be addressed, they don't touch them, only bladder stones are a concern... so that's a plus....

Let me see what else I can pull out of my hat.... I'll be back...