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-   Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/)
-   -   Hearbroken, Devastated, Scared - New Puppy (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/209907-hearbroken-devastated-scared-new-puppy.html)

jfalz73 08-07-2010 06:17 PM
I have been reading about what you are going through with your little man...and i am so sorry:( I dont have any knowledge or words of wisdom to offer but i will for sure keep your little Max in my prayers and your family as well....i am sure it is awful for all of you...God Bless!

shamrocks 08-07-2010 06:19 PM
Just seeing this , I am so sorry for what you are going through. I will keep you and Max in my prayers.

Maximo 08-07-2010 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3230830)
Does he want to play? If I give anything to Max, Cooper steals it away. Even stuff he never even had interest in. Cooper teases him all day long. He's the typical sibling. I swear i can here "na na na na" out of Cooper's voice.
Aww, Cooper. :p

Cooper2010 08-07-2010 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximo (Post 3230850)
Aww, Cooper. :p

It must be a "Cooper" thing. Mine does the same thing. Nope, that's mine. :D

mojo 08-07-2010 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3230280)
Exactly. There is something wrong with her behavior and my guess is that she is defensive because she has been through this before. Just my thoughts. Anyone who truly loved the pups they had bred simply would not act this way.

As a rescuer, I place dogs in homes and they are like my babies. If an adopter called me with a problem like this, I would be just as upset as them. I simply cannot imagine any animal lover behaving this way.

She sounds more like she is concerned with her livelihood imho. From the beginning, telling you to euthanize him if he had LS. What the heck. Not like it could not be fixed...and she knows that. So...clearly this is about money.
Exactly. Right? Not to mention if you are somebody who is 100% fully responsible for bringing that life into the world, you should worry about them even if they have gone on to another home. Especially only a week later.
She is clearly trying to place blame back on to you. 100% agree to not even bother communicating with her right now until you know what is going on. If it turns out to be hereditary, then I would look into small claims court or whatever your options might be.
Such a double whammy to be having this problem and then the breeder blaming you as well. Disappointing.

Ladymom 08-07-2010 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3230280)
Exactly. There is something wrong with her behavior and my guess is that she is defensive because she has been through this before. Just my thoughts. Anyone who truly loved the pups they had bred simply would not act this way.

As a rescuer, I place dogs in homes and they are like my babies. If an adopter called me with a problem like this, I would be just as upset as them. I simply cannot imagine any animal lover behaving this way.

She sounds more like she is concerned with her livelihood imho. From the beginning, telling you to euthanize him if he had LS. What the heck. Not like it could not be fixed...and she knows that. So...clearly this is about money.
:thumbup::thumbup: If she were a responsible breeder, she would be worried sick about little Max. It speaks volumes that Karen took full responsibility for Max's well being after only five days with him when his breeder had him for ten weeks and only seems to be trying to protect her behind. :mad:

mojo 08-07-2010 07:42 PM
Is your dog AKC? I am wondering because when I got Emmy and registered, she got a free trail of pet insurance and this may apply to you?

Complimentary Trial Plan - The AKC Pet Healthcare Plan

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo (Post 3230989)
Is your dog AKC? I am wondering because when I got Emmy and registered, she got a free trail of pet insurance and this may apply to you?

Complimentary Trial Plan - The AKC Pet Healthcare Plan
i registered Max, but don't know anything about a free trial. i'll look into it.

tommysgirl789 08-07-2010 08:11 PM
Harley and I are sending positive thoughts your way.:animal-pa

manolos mom 08-08-2010 05:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3230591)
Thanks everyone. We are trying to keep Max either busy playing (gently) or sleeping. When he gets bored or sits still it seems he has an episode. It's so completely predictable. I have a video I took with a very very slight episode and as soon as I call his name he snaps out. I don't have time to upload now because this little boy is demanding!
Who is your Breeder?

AllDogBoots 08-08-2010 05:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3230992)
i registered Max, but don't know anything about a free trial. i'll look into it.
I got the insurance. Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by manolos mom (Post 3231211)
Who is your Breeder?
I am not going to say right now.

Micah my love 08-08-2010 05:14 AM
wishing you & Max good news

manolos mom 08-08-2010 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3231214)
I got the insurance. Thank you!


I am not going to say right now.
Thats fine, but when you are ready she needs to be exposed. You dont want this happening to others. You have lots of support here on YT. We stand behind you. Lissette

k Owensk9 08-08-2010 06:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3230250)
I just received a long email from my breeder. Here is the first sentence:

"HI, KAREN I HAVE A DEEP SENSE THAT YOUR OTHER DOG HURT THIS PUPPY, I AM NOT SAYING IT IS YOUR FAULT BUT I CAN"T HELP BUT WONDER WHY HE LIVED HERE PERFECTLY FINE FOR ALMOST 11 WEEKS WITH 0 PROBLEMS AND LEAVES HERE ON SATURDAY AND CHECKS OUT 100 % AT YOUR VET ON MONDAY AND THEN BAM HE STARTS HAVING PROBLEMS I AM JUST NOT BUYING INTO IT..."

I am no longer going to respond. I'm not asking her to "buy it" or anything of that sort. I've requested NOTHING of her and continually get emails saying Cooper hurt him. Deeply upsetting.
I know who this person is--or at least I think so. I sold her Graffity and wish I had not ! I'm glad a new person owns him now. I'd like to know further what this person says MUST have happened to the puppy---I may need to speak with her ! Not that it would do any good--but persons not guaranting the health is not good for others selling/adopting/or new owners---it makes all of us look bad ! I'm not saying she should pay thousands for vet bills--but at least get the vet reports and if it confirms the health as questionable--REFUND the purchase price of the puppy. What do you guys think ??

AllDogBoots 08-08-2010 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by k Owensk9 (Post 3231330)
I know who this person is--or at least I think so. I sold her Graffity and wish I had not ! I'm glad a new person owns him now. I'd like to know further what this person says MUST have happened to the puppy---I may need to speak with her ! Not that it would do any good--but persons not guaranting the health is not good for others selling/adopting/or new owners---it makes all of us look bad ! I'm not saying she should pay thousands for vet bills--but at least get the vet reports and if it confirms the health as questionable--REFUND the purchase price of the puppy. What do you guys think ??
I chatted online with the breeder last night and explained that I do not want to receive emails of blame and will not do the same to her. I have been offered another replacement puppy, but never any funds for either the initial purchase or help with vet bills. I will keep the breeder informed of tests as she stated last night that she cares about his well being.

Let's keep in mind that it COULD be something that happened while in my care. MAYBE it's the Sentinel. MAYBE he played too hard. MAYBE LS developed on Tuesday and no signs of his episodes ever happened in the breeder's care. It's too early to really know anything at this point. If indeed it is some kind health issue that may be hereditary I will then question if she can help me financially.

Let's deal with the breeder situation later.

Mardelin 08-08-2010 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3231214)
I got the insurance. Thank you!


I am not going to say right now.
If this is a congenital problem the insurance will not cover anything.

AllDogBoots 08-08-2010 07:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3231355)
If this is a congenital problem the insurance will not cover anything.
Then I guess my bank account will have to.

Mardelin 08-08-2010 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3231357)
Then I guess my bank account will have to.
Let's think positive and pray it isn't (either way I know you'll take care of it). But, the way the insurance works (I've used it), it covers 80% of the costs. However, the 80% is reimbursement, after you've paid the bills.

chachi 08-08-2010 07:29 AM
Karen I am sorry you are having problems with this breeder. I am continuing to pray and have positive thoughts

Sunnie 08-08-2010 07:39 AM
Karen, I haven't commented in this thread yet, but HAVE been following it and I want to say that you have certainly impressed me as a STAND UP person for the way you have been handling this with the breeder.How refreshing! I am so sorry that you are having to go thru this. You do not deserve it and neither does Max. I will be praying that this is a temporary condition and a reaction to something.. and that Max will have a full recovery and a happy life with you. HUGS! Sonya

AllDogBoots 08-08-2010 07:47 AM
My vet just called from her cell phone. We were both on cell phones so it was very unclear.

BAT results came in and all I could hear was that the Post Neo Bile Acid is at 19.4 and should be under 20. She says it's normal but the highest range of normal. She needs to call the lab tomorrow to see if it is possibly affected either higher or lower due to hemolysis. ???

No clue what any of this means. Next step is an ultrasound I think.

She is going to research Sentinel on her own this evening.

I'm really scared because I'm banking on the Sentinel and I don't think these results are looking good. I don't know.

Mardelin 08-08-2010 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3231403)
My vet just called from her cell phone. We were both on cell phones so it was very unclear.

BAT results came in and all I could hear was that the Post Neo Bile Acid is at 19.4 and should be under 20. She says it's normal but the highest range of normal. She needs to call the lab tomorrow to see if it is possibly affected either higher or lower due to hemolysis. ???

No clue what any of this means. Next step is an ultrasound I think.

She is going to research Sentinel on her own this evening.

I'm really scared because I'm banking on the Sentinel and I don't think these results are looking good. I don't know.
Usually when these test are within normal limits but, a bit on the high range, vets will retest in a month. The recommended test time is at 16 weeks and then again at 6 months.

AllDogBoots 08-08-2010 07:53 AM
This whole situation is a nightmare. I do commend my vet for calling me from her cell phone on a Sunday. I trust that they will lead us in the right direction. LS is not yet ruled out.

107barney 08-08-2010 07:59 AM
Not sure what lab your vet used since the reference ranges are different for Antech (a lab used by many for BATs). Here is what Antech has to say about the reading of these #s (this is taken from my own dog's recent BATs lab sheet)

Again, these #s are questionable in a pup this young.
By way of comparison, my MVD dog (without a single PSS) had BATs of 107.

I doubt your dog has a shunt with a number that low - usually it is over 100 and even then it can be an MVD situation (as with my dog).

The ultrasound only can detect a single PSS in approx less than half of cases and depends highly on the skill of the reader (imaging specialist, board certified, e.g.).


"FASTING BILE ACID CONCENTRATIONS

Elevated fasting bile acid concentrations can occur with inadequate fasting, spontaneous gall bladder contraction and with
hepatobiliary disease. The probability of hepatobiliary disease increases when fasting bile acids exceed 25 umol/ L.

Fasting bile acids may be higher than those of postprandial samples. Potential causes include gall bladder contraction and
delayed gastric emptying. If either result exceeds 25 umol/L, abnormal liver function should be considered.

POSTPRANDIAL BILE ACID CONCENTRATIONS

Elevated postprandial bile acids are supportive of hepatobiliary disease. The majority of animals with congenital or acquired
portosystemic shunting have markedly increased postprandial values (>100 umol/L)."

marcie 08-08-2010 08:00 AM
Praying for you and Max. I pray Max will make a full recovery. I can't imagine what you must be going thru.

Ladymom 08-08-2010 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3231403)
My vet just called from her cell phone. We were both on cell phones so it was very unclear.

BAT results came in and all I could hear was that the Post Neo Bile Acid is at 19.4 and should be under 20. She says it's normal but the highest range of normal. She needs to call the lab tomorrow to see if it is possibly affected either higher or lower due to hemolysis. ???

No clue what any of this means. Next step is an ultrasound I think.

She is going to research Sentinel on her own this evening.

I'm really scared because I'm banking on the Sentinel and I don't think these results are looking good. I don't know.
Dr. Center, the developer of the bile acids test, set a cut off of 25, not 20, for abnormal bile acids. Max's results are in the normal range.

PSVA and MVD Research Summary

Hemolysis is burst red blood cells.

Can you take Max to LSU at this point? You can waste a lot of time and money going off in the wrong direction. LSU or a specialist is going to repeat all the tests anyway.

gemy 08-08-2010 08:01 AM
Just wanted to stop by and let you know I'm thinking positive thoughts for you and Max.

Maximo 08-08-2010 08:05 AM
I am praying that this is a good sign for Max.

AllDogBoots 08-08-2010 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximo (Post 3231417)
I am praying that this is a good sign for Max.
:confused:huh?

Maximo 08-08-2010 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3231421)
:confused:huh?
The BAT result is within the normal range, the higher end, but still normal. Yes?


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