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-   Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/)
-   -   Hearbroken, Devastated, Scared - New Puppy (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/209907-hearbroken-devastated-scared-new-puppy.html)

hugz4all4 08-07-2010 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3230300)
That was the first paragraph only:(

Im sorry that communication with the breeder has been this way.. to blame Max's problems on your other dog is just wrong. Im happy to hear that his first round of blood work came out good and will continue to keep him in my thoughts and prayers..


when looking at one of the videos you posted.. looks just like how my sheltie toby siezes... he does the exact same thing. He licks his mouth, stares, then shakes, then he is done. He does stare "into space" sometimes when he is done, others he has came right out of them and needed to go outside.. the only difference is, is that I havent been able to stop his.. his dont last long either and within a few minutes he is back to his normal self.. his came on from a nasty bump to the head, (he fell on my hard wood floor, while jumping around with my beagle) and they are controlled with pheno.. is there anyway your vet can check for seizures regardless of his age?? I would be super concerned with how often he is having these episodes.. are they getting more frequent or less???
like I said before, I will continue to keep him in my thoughts and prayers.. ((hug))

107barney 08-07-2010 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 (Post 3229785)
Lucy's bloodwork was absolutely fine until we did the BAT's. Liver enzymes, etc were all normal. No one was more surprised than my Vet when her BAT's were elevated.

Dogs with neurological involvement due to a single shunt (as opposed to an MVD situation) are likely to have ALT through the roof along with other elevated liver enzymes. BATs are not reliable in a dog this young from what I have understood from Daisy's internists over the years.

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3230335)
Dogs with neurological involvement due to a single shunt (as opposed to an MVD situation) are likely to have ALT through the roof along with other elevated liver enzymes. BATs are not reliable in a dog this young from what I have understood from Daisy's internists over the years.
I hear they may not be reliable but i guess i have to go through this process. I don't know what else.

gemy 08-07-2010 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3230338)
I hear they may not be reliable but i guess i have to go through this process. I don't know what else.
I think it is in Karen's best interests now, to just not post about breeder etc, for us not to speculate on rationale, for or against.

May I remind everyone this is a public forum, what |Cooper did or didn't do, what Sentinel did or didn't do, what the breeder's thoughts or opinions are, are moot points, and best not discussed in this venue.

Our focus is on Karen and Max and finding out what is troubling him

107barney 08-07-2010 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3230338)
I hear they may not be reliable but i guess i have to go through this process. I don't know what else.
Yes I agree - I'd do BATs too - even if not reliable, just because you never know. And maybe this would give some sort of baseline for liver function for something other than a shunt - I don't know but an internist would. My point was that in a dog with neurological involvement, due to a single PSS, you would see other indications on the blood work. I think MVD is different.

Teddy tremors all the time - he kind of has the opposite problem as Max - Teddy tremors when he is concentrating or playing or focused - his vet thinks it is intention tremors (noted in the Yorkshire Terrier and especially in related dogs breeds, but not a very common thing in the Yorkie). We havent confirmed it with a neurology consult yet, but Teddy shook like this, had two seizures, and we noted it at 10 weeks old and continuing.

I have to say that AAI and Chiari don't come to my mind either seeing the video.

One step at a time is all you can do.

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3230344)
I think it is in Karen's best interests now, to just not post about breeder etc, for us not to speculate on rationale, for or against.

May I remind everyone this is a public forum, what |Cooper did or didn't do, what Sentinel did or didn't do, what the breeder's thoughts or opinions are, are moot points, and best not discussed in this venue.

Our focus is on Karen and Max and finding out what is troubling him
Good idea. I didn't get the BAT test results yet. I'll follow up somehow with LSU on Monday, whether its a regular appointment or a neurologist. I'll work on getting as many videos as possible in the meantime. I'm sure though that Max will perform anyway for them when we get there.:(

Does anyone have any idea what the cost of a canine neurologist can run me?

lillymae 08-07-2010 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3229995)
Haven't read through all of the responses yet, but if it were a seizure you would not be able to stop it.

The fact that you can snap him out and then cause one by making him lie still is very interesting clinically- in my mind it would rule out toxins.

A focal seizure btw, means that the seizure is focused or limited to one area (such as a particular limb) versus being generalized over the entire body.

Also, seizures, even focal ones, tend to be followed something called a postictal state- the pup either goes to sleep or appears disoriented afterwards.

You are making some great observations!
This is not correct, There are many diff types of seizures and some you can control . When he is playing his fluids are pumping at a much faster rate (blood, spinal fluide ) If he has Chiari or AAI the fluide goes into the brain faster then it comes out. When the dog stops the play and all fluids slow the fluide can escape without building up because the whole system slows down.

107barney 08-07-2010 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3230344)
I think it is in Karen's best interests now, to just not post about breeder etc, for us not to speculate on rationale, for or against.

May I remind everyone this is a public forum, what |Cooper did or didn't do, what Sentinel did or didn't do, what the breeder's thoughts or opinions are, are moot points, and best not discussed in this venue.

Our focus is on Karen and Max and finding out what is troubling him

I think Karen should decide what she wants to discuss on her thread and what she doesn't.

107barney 08-07-2010 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3230348)
Good idea. I didn't get the BAT test results yet. I'll follow up somehow with LSU on Monday, whether its a regular appointment or a neurologist. I'll work on getting as many videos as possible in the meantime. I'm sure though that Max will perform anyway for them when we get there.:(

Does anyone have any idea what the cost of a canine neurologist can run me?
In Boston it's about $250

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3230352)
I think Karen should decide what she wants to discuss on her thread and what she doesn't.
anything up for discussion. Just no arguing or bashing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3230353)
In Boston it's about $250
Thanks.

I mentioned earlier that I thought the episodes were becoming more frequent. I'm not totally sure. This morning was frequent but he's been pretty good all day.

ladyjane 08-07-2010 12:47 PM
A consult with a neurologist can be anywhere from approximately $150 to $250. It is the tests they usually need to do that can run up the bills; but, that is jumping the gun at this point. No one knows what may or may not need to be done.

lillymae 08-07-2010 12:49 PM
Have they done an X-ray of his neck ? If not I would recommend that as the next step as it's the next cheapest thing and will tell if he has AAI and what you describe here can deff happen with AAI.

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillymae (Post 3230364)
Have they done an X-ray of his neck ? If not I would recommend that as the next step as it's the next cheapest thing and will tell if he has AAI and what you describe here can deff happen with AAI.
My vet mentioned that yesterday but was in and out of surgery all day and with everything else going on I'm embarrassed to say I forgot to pursue it.

lillymae 08-07-2010 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3230367)
My vet mentioned that yesterday but was in and out of surgery all day and with everything else going on I'm embarrassed to say I forgot to pursue it.
I know this is very stressfull for you , but I would not be letting him rough house with your other dog till you have ruled out AAI. And better safe then sorry.

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillymae (Post 3230368)
I know this is very stressfull for you , but I would not be letting him rough house with your other dog till you have ruled out AAI. And better safe then sorry.
yes, i know.

rik20101 08-07-2010 01:31 PM
Just wanted to stop by and give you a virtual hug. I have Max on my mind all day. I pray he gets better soon.

Britster 08-07-2010 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3230250)
I just received a long email from my breeder. Here is the first sentence:

"HI, KAREN I HAVE A DEEP SENSE THAT YOUR OTHER DOG HURT THIS PUPPY, I AM NOT SAYING IT IS YOUR FAULT BUT I CAN"T HELP BUT WONDER WHY HE LIVED HERE PERFECTLY FINE FOR ALMOST 11 WEEKS WITH 0 PROBLEMS AND LEAVES HERE ON SATURDAY AND CHECKS OUT 100 % AT YOUR VET ON MONDAY AND THEN BAM HE STARTS HAVING PROBLEMS I AM JUST NOT BUYING INTO IT..."

I am no longer going to respond. I'm not asking her to "buy it" or anything of that sort. I've requested NOTHING of her and continually get emails saying Cooper hurt him. Deeply upsetting.
I have no words.

I am just wishing the best for you and Max.

Rhetts_mama 08-07-2010 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillymae (Post 3230350)
This is not correct, There are many diff types of seizures and some you can control . When he is playing his fluids are pumping at a much faster rate (blood, spinal fluide ) If he has Chiari or AAI the fluide goes into the brain faster then it comes out. When the dog stops the play and all fluids slow the fluide can escape without building up because the whole system slows down.
A seizure is caused by misfiring neurons in the brain. More than just muscle groups are affected. Those aren't stopped by a touch. Tremors on the other hand are rapid firings of nerves affecting opposing muscle groups. Those can be sometimes be stopped by touch.

dcon1958 08-07-2010 02:19 PM
I am so sorry to hear about your new puppy, Max! I know everything must be so hectic around the house. My best to Max and Cooper! You are a gift to them both. You will all be in my prayers! :)

lillymae 08-07-2010 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3230423)
A seizure is caused by misfiring neurons in the brain. More than just muscle groups are affected. Those aren't stopped by a touch. Tremors on the other hand are rapid firings of nerves affecting opposing muscle groups. Those can be sometimes be stopped by touch.
When a seizure is caused from build up of spinal fluide in the brain at can be turned arouned by calming the pup and slowing the fluide. I had a yorkie for 11 yrs with Chiari and that's exactly what happened with her. Diagnosed at WSU by a Nuerologist who told me this info. I didn't really need his confirmation on this though as I lived it with my dog.

kdhawks 08-07-2010 03:52 PM
We are still keeping you, Max, and Cooper in our thoughts. I hope everything works itself out soon.

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 03:58 PM
Thanks everyone. We are trying to keep Max either busy playing (gently) or sleeping. When he gets bored or sits still it seems he has an episode. It's so completely predictable. I have a video I took with a very very slight episode and as soon as I call his name he snaps out. I don't have time to upload now because this little boy is demanding!

Cooper2010 08-07-2010 04:22 PM
Hi Karen (didn't know your name until I read it here!) I hope your Max gets better every day that passes! :)

Please don't take this the wrong way but what should I be seeing in the videos? It looks like a tremble or a shiver? I'm just trying to understand what's happening with your little guy. I don't mean to be disrespectful, I'm just not seeing the episode? Best wishes to you! :)

cathys 08-07-2010 04:23 PM
You have been on my mind, so I was just checking in. I hope this gets cleared up for you soon. I feel so bad for all that you are going through. You are a obviously a very strong person. Please just take this one step at a time, and know that there are people here that are praying for you.

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper2010 (Post 3230618)
Hi Karen (didn't know your name until I read it here!) I hope your Max gets better every day that passes! :)

Please don't take this the wrong way but what should I be seeing in the videos? It looks like a tremble or a shiver? I'm just trying to understand what's happening with your little guy. I don't mean to be disrespectful, I'm just not seeing the episode? Best wishes to you! :)
You are not disrespectful at all. It IS a tremor. Or a shiver. Or a seizure. He bobbles his head for a couple of seconds. He has on rare occasion slipped or lost balance during the episode. It looks just like i would imagine a seizure to look. Its minimal but it's definitely something. My vet saw it and although he never said the word seizure, he looked at me and said "Karen, this is not a normal behavior". So far that is ALL we know. There are no other symptoms.

Cooper2010 08-07-2010 04:37 PM
I'll be thinking of you and watching for updates. :)

wemple2 08-07-2010 05:35 PM
My thoughts and prayers are with you as you and Max take this journey. If this is seizure activity, I agree is is very subtle. When Winston has a seizure it is most definitely more pronounced...and lasts alot longer. And he always vomits afterwards, very weak and shaky. Obviously there are many types of seizures, with many types of symptoms. Max's do seem to be more of a tremor, I hope it is nothing serious at all, maybe something he will "out grow". I do hope you find the cause of his episodes...he's still just a baby, a cute baby I might add. Hugs to you...kisses to Max...

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wemple2 (Post 3230754)
My thoughts and prayers are with you as you and Max take this journey. If this is seizure activity, I agree is is very subtle. When Winston has a seizure it is most definitely more pronounced...and lasts alot longer. And he always vomits afterwards, very weak and shaky. Obviously there are many types of seizures, with many types of symptoms. Max's do seem to be more of a tremor, I hope it is nothing serious at all, maybe something he will "out grow". I do hope you find the cause of his episodes...he's still just a baby, a cute baby I might add. Hugs to you...kisses to Max...
Thank you. Yes, he's beautiful. Tonight we saw the air licking commonly associated with a seizure. It lasted about 2 seconds max.

We are also finding out that Cooper is the most annoying brother that any dog could have.

Maximo 08-07-2010 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3230764)
Thank you. Yes, he's beautiful. Tonight we saw the air licking commonly associated with a seizure. It lasted about 2 seconds max.

We are also finding out that Cooper is the most annoying brother that any dog could have.
Sorry to hear about the air licking.

What is Cooper doing? Does he want to play?

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximo (Post 3230778)
Sorry to hear about the air licking.

What is Cooper doing? Does he want to play?
Does he want to play? If I give anything to Max, Cooper steals it away. Even stuff he never even had interest in. Cooper teases him all day long. He's the typical sibling. I swear i can here "na na na na" out of Cooper's voice.


FOR THE RECORD: I DO NOT BLAME THE BREEDER AND NEVER HAVE. I don't think she is handling things well, and it is currently being discussed. I told her not to attack me or blame me. I've never claimed she gave me a sick puppy. I have no idea what is wrong him. I am going to try to keep her up to date with results as she says she is interested in Max's well being. I don't play games and am not a confrontational person. Let's keep this thread on Max's well being.


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