No disrespect, but how is joining three different groups and also getting information on YT less confusing?

I would personally not want to be bombarded with all of the different opinions; but that's just me.

because these owners are dealing with ibd daily and have been for years and there may be a dog on there exactly like this having the same issues as her dog. My dog did not have the same issues as her nor has yours or Ellie May so maybe there is an owner on those groups that have had the issues and can help further. I never poo poo any information an owner can get as the more the owner can learn about what is going on the sooner the dog will get better.

She can ask questions of this nutritionist day or night and she will respond unlike any other nutritionist so she can start to learn about diets for ibd as she just did a whole discussion on this as well.

Once you know better you can do better and sometimes that knowledge comes from other pet owners dealing with the same thing. I never discount anything in helping a dog get better. I look at all options confusing or not as I want to get my dog better as fast as possible. The yahoogroups are amazing ask Ann they helped her alot when her dog was being diagnosed with cushings.

Here is an example

I read on a group that promeris was being used for demodex. I had not read that before. My friends dog has been dealing with demodex for 5 years and her dog almost died of ivermectin toxicity from another derm not mine. I called my derm as she goes to her now and said Hey what about promeris for Sophie my friends dog. She said we can try but some dogs get sick on it but definitely worth a try. I told my friend yep some dogs get sick so you need to make that call. She said it is worth a try.

Guess what : 4 months on promeris and the demodex is GONE. She was driving back from derm and called me and said she should have paid me the $160 for helping her dog.

This is why i never discount any information as it could help a dog and owner frustrated and at their witts end

I am not saying anything about the Yahoo groups as a whole. I will say that I have been on a couple and also have seen some quotes from some that have given me some concerns; but I also have seen very good information. The problem becomes who you listen to. People need to realize that advice is not necessarily good advice...no matter the intentions.

My point was that three in one day is a bit much; but that is just my personal thoughts on it. It is difficult enough for some people to digest all of the different stuff they get slammed with here on YT without going on a Yahoo group or three different ones in a day...and getting more opinions. It can get very confusing especially for some people who are frightened and worried to begin with.

Some pet owners imo think they are experts...and think that what worked for their pup will work for another without really having the full picture. Each case is unique in most cases.

Well, I saw one recently that was so far off base it was frightening. I am not going to state the case because it will start a big discussion I don't want to get involved in. So, yes...there is good...but also incorrect information being disseminated online. One must be careful.

But.............

My point was NOT that there is NOT good information on the groups....it was that too much can be confusing.

That's all. :)

I guess i look at every situation as if i were in their shoes as that really is all i can do in offering advice. I know for me i would be on the phone with a nutritionist. I would be on every group reading as much as i could as i did the same when dd was diagnosed with mvd and vet wanted me to do scintigraphy. I stayed up all night reading everything and then I went with what i felt was best for my dog and have not regretted it one bit. Now in a crisis situation you have no choice but to trust as i handed dex over and said please treat him as if he was your own dog and i trust that you will do for him what you would do for your own and left in tears but i had called every vet that day to find the best ims in the county so i knew he was in the best hands. I had to trust as he could have died. Whenever ims called me she said she gets one tough case a year and he is her case for that year. I told her the same as above and she saved his life. I trust her 100% with my dogs as she is the best in my area. I learned about yahoogroups at that time and it was the best thing i ever did was joining those groups for both mvd and pancreatitis. I absorbed all the info, consulted with ims and vet and made the best choice i could for my dogs.

Now here is why i trust Susan Davis as I am always a little skeptical on the nutrition side as always learning on that side and why i do not homecook at this point.

Vicki the mom to blue boy who had AAI has a girl yorkie Jill. V posted one morning frantic her Jill was really sick and in the hospital and she had PLE which is very serious as you know. They did hepastarch it was not working. They told her she might not make it and they transported her to a specialty hospital a ways away from V. She was on deaths door and they did plasma transfusion which was helping a bit but she was still declining. We tracked down Jodi and got Susan Davis on the phone with the specialists as this was on a weekend. Susan overnighted the supplements and instructed on diet and today Jill is back to good health. She probably would have died as they were already telling V she may have to let her go. I was very impressed by that whole situation and have seen at least 3 other dogs she has helped in a crisis situation.

Is she a board certified nutritionist? I do not believe so but i have seen people use BC nutritionists and the dog never got better too and some died.

I do not know what the answer is with this situation but i know i would be reading everything i could confusing or not. I know every person is different though - some trust there vets 100%, some get more frusted the more they read, etc. All i can post is what i would do in a given situation and that is what i usually do.

I think one must gather that info and consult with specialist in a tough situation as none of us are vets. Once the specialist has diagnosed properly through testing such as mri and spinal tap then the owner has received hopefully the right treatment plan. If the dog declines the owner needs to go back to specialist for a re-evaluation and adjustment to treatment plan.

Some signs can be many different things especially neurological issues but if we can steer them to the specialist that is all we can do. I know i did not know what an internal medicine specialist was until dex was sick. Had no clue until someone on a yahoogroup told me so we cannot assume an owner even knows this stuff and many vets will continue to try to heal dog even if out of their league. What the owner does whether they go or not is not up to us as we cannot physically make them do something they do not want to do. If i see a dog paralyzed i recommend neurologist in this breed and a neuro office with a ortho specialist too so they can consult together.

thanks guys
i might join the k9kitchen; but i don't have time for more than 2 sites right now; i get overwhelmed very easily :)
question after consulting with susan davis; what info does she need to help the dog. i have blood test for ava from march 2010; would that be sufficient; or does she look for something specific or for the symptoms? how easy is the homecooked diet; i really dont have time to homecook and add supplements; i think this might be too much for me.

you will need to email or fax her all vet records for her to thoroughly look over the entire case so she can make the best recommendation for her. She also will consult with your vet as well to make sure all bases are covered. She will make recommendations of diets as well as homecooking so if you do not want to homecook she will give you recommendations as well as my friends dog was on a vet food so she does not pressure you to homecook or feed raw if you are not comfortable with it.

The K9KITCHEN group is for homecooking so if you want to join one group only then join the ibd dogs group

do you know if oatmeal is easier to digest than rice. would it be better for her

the vet just called to ask about her i told him that she didnt sleep well yesterday; she was restless
monday i fed her chicken and rice and she was fine
tuesday i introduced the iams low residue again and her stomach was making noise again; so obivously she's allergic to something in there; most likely the corn
he said she did well for 2 months; i said yes because of the prednisone; but once that was decreased she started itching and licking again and then she got sick
so he said ok we will try purina en when it comes in and then the purina ha; and then ultra z/d and d/d... he said there are many

to be honest i am only trying purina en and then ha; if those dont work i am homecooking for her and adding supplements; and that's the end of it. i cant take it anymore; its consuming my whole life and not to mention draining my bank account.

by the way i checked her allergy panel again and she's not allergic to chicken
i have to switch the rice to oatmeal though

this is the allergies again (2 low level, 1 very low level; scale of 0-6)
corn-2
soybean-2
duck -1
yeast-1
rice-2
lamb-2
pea-2

Elly

i do alot of reading on allergies and food intolerance and have for 5 years since i have an ibd dog and an allergy dog and everything says those food allergy testing things are a waste as you have to do trial and error through elimination diet.

I know Monica responded back it has to be novel protein and carb she has not ever ate and low in fat. So please in making this change this next time make sure it is a protein and a carb she never ate and low in fat. I happen to know purina ha is 8% fat and she has never ate soy before i do not think. I know you are wanting to do EN. What is the fat percentage in it and has Ava ever ate beef before? Monica really knows her stuff and Dr Dodds recommends her as well. I also like Susan Davis from what i have read.

I know you are getting really frustrated as i would be too :(

Did the vet say anything to you about ibd dogs getting use to a food and not tolerating it anymore and then having to be switched? My vet told me this happens to some ibd dogs. My vet has an ibd dog as well so he knows alot about it. He is the one as well as ims that told me to do purina ha as his dog is on it too. He is the only vet in my area that has purina ha and he is the vet with a phd from ucdavis a nutrition school for vet medicine. He is not a bc nutritionist but being he has a phd he may have taken more nutrition classes than some vets not sure just guessing here.

Hang in there I just want this new food change to be the last for you to have to go through. She is a very difficult case so hang in there.

Even if food allergy testing was accurate (and I don't believe it is), IBD wouldn't really be considered an allergy issue. It is an intolerance problem. Allergy and intolerance are different.

I can say the only protein my girl can tolerate well is fish. Not recommending it, but for her it is the only thing that doesn't mess up her intestines.

After we tried two foods for her intestines, we were told that we need to find something homecooked that will work before any recommendations of rx foods would be made.

And also it seems like this is a guessing game now. These rx foods do have different actions and it's really not about pulling one out of a hat at random. So if one food is really not working, maybe it's time to find one with a different make up/guaranteed analysis (while leaving out any ingreidents of concern).

she never ate beef before so i am hoping it will be ok; i wanted the en because it's a wet food and easy to digest it's 3% fat in wet; so not sure how that's calculated; however it does contain brewers rice? so that might be a problem.
i want to try the HA but ava doesnt dink much water and i am scared she will get dehydrated or it might be too hard for her to digest since it's dry.

you know i have a feeling fish will be best for her; she was on halo hollistic food wild salmon and she did fine for 10 months on it; but then she got sick again. however that food did contain lots of other ingredients.
the vet thinks she has both ibd and intolenence/allergies to food ; that's why she's a difficult case and hard to find a good diet that will stick.

ok i thought that might me the concern. Just throwing out there as izzy was on W/D and did well and i believe that is wet and she threw up blood too. If it comes down to it you can always soak the purina ha as i do that whenever dex or dee dee get sick and i soak demi's kibble every day and put a little cod on top of it as she is real picky but since she lost so many teeth i have to soak kibble as she refuses to eat wet food will not touch it lol

I am not sure how to do the calculation for wet food as never fed it but I think Ellie May on here knows how to do it

has she ever eaten natural balance fish and sweet potato canned food before that is limited ingredient diet?

Ellie has both also along with pancreatitis issues and liver issues and now skin issues. We thankfully don't have to deal with any diarrhea that would be considered dangerous though...

A novel protein is good as are novel carbs.
If she did well for 10 months on salmon, are you sure she didn't get into something or get a treat that didn't agree?

http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com...product&id=248 Learn about Purina Veterinary Diets® EN Gastroenteric® Canine Dry Formula, now containing natural immune supporting protein to help nutritionally manage stress related diarrhea in dogs.
With moderate fat and low fiber, it is gentle, highly digestible, as well as good tasting. Medium chain triglycerides (MCTs) provide a readily digested and utilized energy source. Available in dry and canned forms.

Dietary Characteristics
Purina Veterinary Diets® EN® canine formulas provide complete and balanced nutrition for growth of puppies and maintenance of the adult dog and have been formulated to achieve the following characteristics: High digestibility
Source of MCTs (22-34% of fat)
Moderate fat
Source of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids
Low fiber
Increased antioxidant vitamins E & C
Added Zinc
Guaranteed Analysis (Canned)
Crude Protein (Min) 6.5% Crude Fat (Min) 3.0% Crude Fiber (Max) 0.5% Moisture (Max) 74.0% Zinc (Zn) (Min) 70 mg/kg Vitamin E (Min) 140 IU/kg Vitamin C (Min) 35 mg/kg Omega-6 Fatty Acids* (Min) 0.30% Omega-3 Fatty Acids* (Min) 0.03%

Ingredients (Canned)
Water sufficient for processing, beef, brewers rice, egg product, coconut oil, gum arabic, tricalcium phosphate, choline chloride, calcium carbonate, salt, potassium chloride, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), L-Lysine monohydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), zinc sulfate, biotin, ferrous sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, manganese sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, copper sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, calcium iodate, sodium selenite. J-4553

Excellent question! I had started my foster on Z/D ultra and he was still having some issues because of the treats I was giving him. He now gets the Z/D as a treat. He has NO idea that he is getting something different than the others. He just knows he is getting a treat! :)

she was getting treats so maybe that did it; but since i am not sure i am afraid to go back and put her on halo.
however i did try fish and sweet potato homecooked once and she got really sick ;she cant tolerate the sweet potato

that is tough was there sweet potato in that halo food? Dex got sick on dd salmon and potato but i know it has white potato in it so that is another thought as every dog is different and on monicas group they are not on board with the inflammatory vs non-inflammatory in white potato vs sweet potato where as some feel this to be true.

yep mine get purina ha as a treat they do not know the difference. Even demi thinks it is a great treat lolll. I stopped all treats here. They only get their food.

Was it just fish and sweet potato mixed together without specific proportions?
No fat? Don't know the % of fiber in the recipe?

Most dogs do fine on sweet potato. I'd be shocked if it made her really sick. So the question would be, was it the sweet potato or was it the make up of the recipe?

Maybe she should feed her single ingredient foods. Fish for a week, then add small portion of Sweet Potatoes.

my dd cannot eat sweet potato as i steamed it to pill her with it and every time she vomits it up and i have tried it several times. She tolerated white potato for years but now throws that up after metacam. I was trying to find something she could be pilled with that was easy and would not affect her allergies. So far now the cod is working as chicken worked but she was rubbing her eyes raw -ughhhhhhh

Weird, but I think most do fine with it.
Certainly not recommending that it is tried again, but to mix two ingredients together and end up causing diarrhea doesn't really tell us if it was one of the ingredients or whether it was just not balanced correctly.

To the OP: when an rx food for this kind of thing is given (or when a regular commercial food is tried) that is the only thing that should be given. Any treat could totally mess it up and then the results are inconclusive.

what can i say it is dee dee my challenge

It could be there was too much sweet potato - I think what lissette said was do fish only then introduce one at a time but only if she wants to homecook as if she is not wanting to homecook then finding a food is going to be a little more tricky. I just thought because izzy was also vomitting blood as dex never did this it might be real similar. If you want to talk to Cindy you can as she is very nice and will talk on phone but i do know she consults susan davis as well and susan had her on the w/d. Izzy has battled ibd and pancreatitis. When she gets a bout like your girl she throws up pure blood :( Let me know as i can call her

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/member.php?u=21275

here is her page check out her posts on izzy and looks like she was on here recently so you can pm her as well. She finally has izzy balanced but it was a struggle for her to get there