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-   Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/)
-   -   Ava is sick and in hospital again; GI problems (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/198307-ava-sick-hospital-again-gi-problems.html)

dwerten 05-17-2010 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ally173 (Post 3131427)
she's going to be on it only for 2 weeks once daily; then every other day to be safe; and i think that dose might be effective. if she has another episode then we have to consider daily. but hopefully that wont happen. she relapsed quickly so i think it must be something in the food. since they have to order the EN i am not sure if i should continue feeding the iams low residue until i switch. should i give her some boiled chicken and rice instead. not sure what to do for the next few days
stick to the diet for now as she was doing fine with diet and steroids. You need to not make a bunch of changes and then slowly transition over to new food. I so hope this works for you :(

I know you do not want to home cook but the ims did tell me if purina ha did not work for dex that i should seriously consider homecooking so this might be your last step if this food does not work:( Just a thought to start learning now on diets for ibd. Kibble is much harder to digest than homecook or wet as well.

I really wish i could be of more help :(

ally173 05-17-2010 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3131453)
stick to the diet for now as she was doing fine with diet and steroids. You need to not make a bunch of changes and then slowly transition over to new food. I so hope this works for you :(

I know you do not want to home cook but the ims did tell me if purina ha did not work for dex that i should seriously consider homecooking so this might be your last step if this food does not work:( Just a thought to start learning now on diets for ibd. Kibble is much harder to digest than homecook or wet as well.

I really wish i could be of more help :(
ok thanks; i will feed her the iams low residue until i switch her to purina EN; hopefully she will eat today. he said to wait few hrs; so around 3pm i will try to feed her. he did mention i can feed her small pieces of boiled chicken as a bland diet; but now i am confused because i suspect that she might not be tolerating the low residue. have u seen the ingredients; they are not so great. Chicken Broth, Chicken, Whitefish, Brewer's Rice, Corn Grits, Chicken Liver, Beef By-Products, Chicken By-Products, Fish Meal, Dried Egg Product, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken By-Product Meal, Fish Oil
that doesnt seem bland to me; u think i should boil some chicken and feed her that instead without the rice?
i am taking tomorrow off to watch her and if she gets sick again i will take her back
by the way how much does it cost to consult with susan davis about homecooking.

dwerten 05-17-2010 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ally173 (Post 3131482)
ok thanks; i will feed her the iams low residue until i switch her to purina EN; hopefully she will eat today. he said to wait few hrs; so around 3pm i will try to feed her. he did mention i can feed her small pieces of boiled chicken as a bland diet; but now i am confused because i suspect that she might not be tolerating the low residue. have u seen the ingredients; they are not so great. Chicken Broth, Chicken, Whitefish, Brewer's Rice, Corn Grits, Chicken Liver, Beef By-Products, Chicken By-Products, Fish Meal, Dried Egg Product, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken By-Product Meal, Fish Oil
that doesnt seem bland to me; u think i should boil some chicken and feed her that instead without the rice?
i am taking tomorrow off to watch her and if she gets sick again i will take her back
by the way how much does it cost to consult with susan davis about homecooking.
check out her site Holistic Veterinarian Pet Nutritionist Holistic Pet Care

I would not do the chicken as when dex ever gets a vomitting episode i restrict food to let his tummy rest and then i soak his kibble and slowly introduce food back then he lets me know when he feels better as her barks at me to give him more food loll I will not feed him anything but that food - Luckily we have only had a couple vomitting episodes but he usually gets right back on track

The best food is the one that works so it really is hard to say as food issues are a process of elimination but she has been on this food long enough to see if it will work and since she is relapsing it is time to transition off. Seems like chicken is culprit as alot of chicken stuff in this food and our ims said ibd dogs do not do well on chicken diets. My dex is on a hydrolized soy diet so it is soy and it is broken down further

ladyjane 05-17-2010 10:51 AM
I am so sorry to hear that Ava is ill again. :(

ally173 05-17-2010 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3131522)
check out her site Holistic Veterinarian Pet Nutritionist Holistic Pet Care

I would not do the chicken as when dex ever gets a vomitting episode i restrict food to let his tummy rest and then i soak his kibble and slowly introduce food back then he lets me know when he feels better as her barks at me to give him more food loll I will not feed him anything but that food - Luckily we have only had a couple vomitting episodes but he usually gets right back on track

The best food is the one that works so it really is hard to say as food issues are a process of elimination but she has been on this food long enough to see if it will work and since she is relapsing it is time to transition off. Seems like chicken is culprit as alot of chicken stuff in this food and our ims said ibd dogs do not do well on chicken diets. My dex is on a hydrolized soy diet so it is soy and it is broken down further
so do u think feeding the iams low residue for now is better and easier on her stomach than eating a breast of chicken? the other food also has corn; so maybe that is the problem. i wanted to feed her chicken for today to rest her stomach from the other food??

dwerten 05-17-2010 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ally173 (Post 3131579)
so do u think feeding the iams low residue for now is better and easier on her stomach than eating a breast of chicken? the other food also has corn; so maybe that is the problem. i wanted to feed her chicken for today to rest her stomach from the other food??
honestly if she were mine i probably would not do the chicken as i think the steroids will calm things down and the fact that chicken whole is much more than chicken in a dog food. Is it kibble if so soak it so it is easier to digest.

What did vet say about diet?

ally173 05-17-2010 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3131531)
I am so sorry to hear that Ava is ill again. :(
thanks linda; i know i am so disapointed that it happened so fast.

ally173 05-17-2010 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3131586)
honestly if she were mine i probably would not do the chicken as i think the steroids will calm things down and the fact that chicken whole is much more than chicken in a dog food. Is it kibble if so soak it so it is easier to digest.

What did vet say about diet?
she has the iams low residue wet food ;he said i can give her that or the bland boiled chicken. i just finished boiling chicken so i gave her few pieces to see how she reacts. i want to see if its the chicken or the corn in the diet. she inhaled it; she was so hungry. tomorrow i will start feeding her the iams low residue again.

ally173 05-17-2010 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3131531)
I am so sorry to hear that Ava is ill again. :(
linda which food do u feed ur dogs again; california natural?

ally173 05-17-2010 02:11 PM
anyone heard or tried evangers dog food? i was looking at their canned food and they seem pretty healthy. any feedback?
http://www.evangersdogfood.com/dog/

dwerten 05-17-2010 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ally173 (Post 3131776)
anyone heard or tried evangers dog food? i was looking at their canned food and they seem pretty healthy. any feedback?
http://www.evangersdogfood.com/dog/
no but i think you need to be looking for a very limited ingredient diet

I went to a yorkie meet up this weekend and Susan Davis spoke and she had stated many dogs with dietary issues do best on venison diets

ladyjane 05-17-2010 05:31 PM
I honestly don't think I would suggest what I use for her. I have a few on special diets...one with IBD is on Ultra Z/D and doing terrific.

Ellie May 05-17-2010 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3132001)
I honestly don't think I would suggest what I use for her. I have a few on special diets...one with IBD is on Ultra Z/D and doing terrific.
:thumbup:


Careful with the Z/D.
Works great for some, but it may set this girl off more.
Was nothing but problems for Ellie...

Anyway, maybe it's time for the vet to talk to a veterinary nutritionist. These foods all have slightly different purposes and sometimes it goes way beyond teh ingredients.

ladyjane 05-17-2010 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3132011)
:thumbup:


Careful with the Z/D.
Works great for some, but it may set this girl off more.
Was nothing but problems for Ellie...

Anyway, maybe it's time for the vet to talk to a veterinary nutritionist. These foods all have slightly different purposes and sometimes it goes way beyond teh ingredients.
oh NO I was not suggesting it for Ava...sorry if it sounded like that. I was merely commenting on foods. duh...my bad

I would not suggest anything for her at this point! I agree she needs a vet nutritionist.

There is one at A&M. I can get his name if you want it Ellie. He drew up a homecooked diet for my Cody who had renal and pancreatic issues and could not eat any of the RX diets. The consult with my vet was $150 and that included two recipes.

BanditSocks2 05-17-2010 05:49 PM
So sorry Ava is sick again. I hope she gets better soon and you find a good food that works for her.

ally173 05-17-2010 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3132032)
oh NO I was not suggesting it for Ava...sorry if it sounded like that. I was merely commenting on foods. duh...my bad

I would not suggest anything for her at this point! I agree she needs a vet nutritionist.

There is one at A&M. I can get his name if you want it Ellie. He drew up a homecooked diet for my Cody who had renal and pancreatic issues and could not eat any of the RX diets. The consult with my vet was $150 and that included two recipes.
i know u weren't suggesting just sharing ur story; and i want to hear about other stories for insight.
can u please give me the info for the nutritionist.
thanks

ally173 05-17-2010 05:51 PM
i noticed the following ingredients in purina which can be toxic, especially for a dog with IBD and [COLOR=green ! important][COLOR=green ! important]digestive[/COLOR][/COLOR] issues.
Copper sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex and sodium selenite; these ingredients can be toxic and cause vomiting and are not meant for long term use. however the vet said she might be on this diet for a long term if not her life.
can anyone please tell me more about these ingredients, why are they added to this formula and how safe are they? thanks

ladyjane 05-17-2010 05:56 PM
Contact

Dr. John E. Bauer
Texas A&M University
College of Veterinary Medicine
Department of Veterinary Small Animal Clinical Sciences
4474-TAMU
College Station, TX 77843-4474

ally173 05-17-2010 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3132055)
Contact

Dr. John E. Bauer
Texas A&M University
College of Veterinary Medicine
Department of Veterinary Small Animal Clinical Sciences
4474-TAMU
College Station, TX 77843-4474
thanks

ladyjane 05-17-2010 06:00 PM
More about the nutrition program at A&M:

Research

mojo 05-17-2010 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ally173 (Post 3131416)
just picked her up, he gave her sub q fluids, pepcid injec, antiinflamtory inj and dexamethasone inj
i will try to feed her in few hrs and hope she keeps it down
she has to be back on prednisone once daily for 2 weeks and then every other day until advised; maybe 6 months or more
every 3 to 6 months she has to get boold test for the organs to make sure everything is ok
he's ordering purina EN for me to switch her to that food; to give it a try
he wants to do acth test to rule out addison disease but that's over 500; i am going to wait on that since the treatment is prednisone anyway
he also wanted to put her on fortiflora from purina; but i still have benebac pet gel; he said to stay on that.
does anyone know if fortiflora is better then benebac?
thanks
Hi. I haven't read this entire thread but I noticed this response and am jumping in. Bella (6 1/2) has addison's disease and is being treated with prednisone every other day. I was curious what tests for her organs you were saying your dog needs? My vet doesn't do any testing. She also requires a docp shot every 3 weeks.
She has had this disease at least 3 years and was doing pretty well. Then within the last 6-7 months she would vomit, have gi issues. After another stay in the hospital and testing, my vet told me he thought she had a food allergy. I really didn't think so. He said trust me, put her on Royal Canin hypoallergenic hp and it has worked wonders! R.C. is not something I would have normally fed, but this is really working for her.
Good luck to you and your girl.

ally173 05-17-2010 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo (Post 3132067)
Hi. I haven't read this entire thread but I noticed this response and am jumping in. Bella (6 1/2) has addison's disease and is being treated with prednisone every other day. I was curious what tests for her organs you were saying your dog needs? My vet doesn't do any testing. She also requires a docp shot every 3 weeks.
She has had this disease at least 3 years and was doing pretty well. Then within the last 6-7 months she would vomit, have gi issues. After another stay in the hospital and testing, my vet told me he thought she had a food allergy. I really didn't think so. He said trust me, put her on Royal Canin hypoallergenic hp and it has worked wonders! R.C. is not something I would have normally fed, but this is really working for her.
Good luck to you and your girl.
my dog was diagnosed with IBD; the vet said dogs on prednisone need blood test to check their liver and kidney function and UTIs; since prednisone decreases the immune system.
what food was she on before RC HP?
i think it's food related too; because my dog did fine on halo hollistic salmon for almost 10 months with no episode; and then her diet was changed to different dog foods and then she started having frequent episodes. can't keep count i think this is her 5th or 6th episode. but now i rush her right away to avoid further damage.
she was on iams low residue; but since it has corn and it showed up as an allergen on her allergy test. we are going to try purina EN now; it's doesnt have corn, i am hoping it will help.
soy also showed up on the allergan test; so she probably can't have purina HA or RC HP.
if this keeps up i might have no choice but to homecook; which i am trying to avoid.
thanks again

Ellie May 05-17-2010 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3132032)
oh NO I was not suggesting it for Ava...sorry if it sounded like that. I was merely commenting on foods. duh...my bad

I would not suggest anything for her at this point! I agree she needs a vet nutritionist.

There is one at A&M. I can get his name if you want it Ellie. He drew up a homecooked diet for my Cody who had renal and pancreatic issues and could not eat any of the RX diets. The consult with my vet was $150 and that included two recipes.
No, it didn't sound like you were at all. :)
I just like to give the other side and make sure OP knows this food doesn't work work all pups.

Miss Ellie has a vet nutritionist. She isn't allowed any rx or commercial diets whatsoever. Fun times.

mojo 05-17-2010 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ally173 (Post 3132097)
my dog was diagnosed with IBD; the vet said dogs on prednisone need blood test to check their liver and kidney function and UTIs; since prednisone decreases the immune system.
what food was she on before RC HP?
i think it's food related too; because my dog did fine on halo hollistic salmon for almost 10 months with no episode; and then her diet was changed to different dog foods and then she started having frequent episodes. can't keep count i think this is her 5th or 6th episode. but now i rush her right away to avoid further damage.
she was on iams low residue; but since it has corn and it showed up as an allergen on her allergy test. we are going to try purina EN now; it's doesnt have corn, i am hoping it will help.
soy also showed up on the allergan test; so she probably can't have purina HA or RC HP.
if this keeps up i might have no choice but to homecook; which i am trying to avoid.
thanks again
Before that she was on chicken soup for the pet lovers soul - which my other 2 are still on - no problems. Prior to that they were on merricks, but my dogs stopped liking it so much so I switched to the chicken soup which they love.
Wonder why my vet doesn't check kidney/liver functions? Although she requires the prednisone to function, so...

dwerten 05-17-2010 07:15 PM
had not heard of this one but mine is on hydrolized soy diet as well but it is purina ha and he has done great on it for almost 5 years now. My dog with allergies is also on that diet as well.

Did you ever try the soy diet Elly? I cannot remember sorry :( I just do not put much credence in blood tests for food allergies as i know you know as we have talked about that.

dwerten 05-17-2010 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ally173 (Post 3132097)
my dog was diagnosed with IBD; the vet said dogs on prednisone need blood test to check their liver and kidney function and UTIs; since prednisone decreases the immune system.
what food was she on before RC HP?
i think it's food related too; because my dog did fine on halo hollistic salmon for almost 10 months with no episode; and then her diet was changed to different dog foods and then she started having frequent episodes. can't keep count i think this is her 5th or 6th episode. but now i rush her right away to avoid further damage.
she was on iams low residue; but since it has corn and it showed up as an allergen on her allergy test. we are going to try purina EN now; it's doesnt have corn, i am hoping it will help.
soy also showed up on the allergan test; so she probably can't have purina HA or RC HP.
if this keeps up i might have no choice but to homecook; which i am trying to avoid.
thanks again
yes every 6 mos dd gets blood work as she is on temarilp but i think with an addisons dog you are pretty much stuck as they have to have steroids to survive so may be why they do not get as concerned about doing blood work as often

ally173 05-18-2010 03:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3132103)
No, it didn't sound like you were at all. :)
I just like to give the other side and make sure OP knows this food doesn't work work all pups.

Miss Ellie has a vet nutritionist. She isn't allowed any rx or commercial diets whatsoever. Fun times.
if u dont mind me asking what food do u homecook for her and which nutritionist do u use. thanks

ally173 05-18-2010 03:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3132200)
had not heard of this one but mine is on hydrolized soy diet as well but it is purina ha and he has done great on it for almost 5 years now. My dog with allergies is also on that diet as well.

Did you ever try the soy diet Elly? I cannot remember sorry :( I just do not put much credence in blood tests for food allergies as i know you know as we have talked about that.
i have not tried the soy diet yet; i am going to try purina EN since it's beef; and if this doesnt work i will try HA and then homecooked. i think i want to try many things before i homecook for her.

Ellie May 05-18-2010 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ally173 (Post 3132462)
if u dont mind me asking what food do u homecook for her and which nutritionist do u use. thanks
We use Rebecca Remillard out of Angell.
Ellie is on a fish based diet that would be likely not work in this case.

dwerten 05-18-2010 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ally173 (Post 3132463)
i have not tried the soy diet yet; i am going to try purina EN since it's beef; and if this doesnt work i will try HA and then homecooked. i think i want to try many things before i homecook for her.
well keep in mind beef and chicken are the top two things dogs are allergic too and cannot tolerate. Beef is rich too. I do not think that diet is hydrolized either. I do not want to confuse the situation but I think at this point you may want to give the purina ha or the other soy diet a try instead of beef but go with your gut and did you join K9kitchen? She is a nutritionist from guelph university which is a vet school in canada. She is very nice and helpful and also have you joined ibdogs and pancreatitis dogs on yahoogroups.com as those are people dealing with this as well. Many pancreatitis dogs also have ibd. If you haven't i strongly recommend joining all 3 groups today as they may have dogs that went through the same thing you are going through and can help you more.


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