yeah go slowly do you have the purina ha already ?

i am picking it up tomorrow; weird they asked me do u want wet or dry; i said it only comes in dry; they said no
i bet she meant the ultra z/d or maybe something else; i hope not
if not i have to wait for next week
do u give dex any vitamins besides this food; i know i will be adding probiotic

You talked to a vet online? And he was willing to diagnose an animal he'd never even seen? And he even recommended medications and diet for her?

Is this normal for vets to do?

The lab results you posted meant absolutely nothing to me, and maybe it was enough for him go by, but it just seems odd IMO. Too much potential liabilty for a legitimate veterinarian, I would think. Anyway, just curious.

i didnt ask him to diagnose her; as she was already diagnosed
i only asked for insight and opinion; and since he's an internal medicine specialist i believe he can say his opinion; especially if i asked him for it.
it's not like i am going to change her treatment. she's going to stay on the same medication but i had a choice between EN and HA and he said hydrolized will be better for dogs with IBD; he also told me to go see a specialist as he thinks ava needs to be on another medication; but i am not going to do that right now. no big deal and i am greatful for his insight.

yeah there are vets and vet techs online that help pet owners understand things and educate us.

On my maltese group there is a wonderful vet and a vet tech that always help us out.

I am on two vet groups on yahoo where it is pet owners, vet techs and vets. I have emailed them xrays of dd leg, blood work, pics of what is going on with her etc. They have been wonderful at helping me out and explaining things. They do not give doseages out just try to help in figuring things out and explaining things.

Even Dr Tobias' assistant is on a yahoogroup and helps people with liver disease.

These yahoogroups are amazing and some very sharp people on them who donate their time and expertise to help pet owners.

Ann is on the cushings group and really likes it as well.

I do not discount anything in dealing with a sick dog.

no dex ONLY gets purina ha bc if it is not broke i do not fix it. He is too sensitive to anything and it scares me to try anything with him.

DD gets probiotics

I'm glad you had someone to ask for more insight. Everything helps.

Sorry if I upset you - I was honestly curious. I didn't realize there were forums with vets on them like that.

u didnt upset me; no worries. i am just so overwhelmed. yes deb told me about the yahoo groups; so far they are helpful. nothing major but at least similar experience.

I can tell you that the vets I use, including board certified specialists, would never get online and advise people.

To each his own. I see far too many people using these groups as a way to avoid vet bills. They do it and then diagnose their own pups with the information they receive. I shudder to think what could happen to some of these pups.

Call me a naysayer. I am off of this thread now for good. I have found it not to be much of a learning experience, but one that scares me. Very depressing to me.

Yes, you are overwhelmed...if I was given all of the advice that you have been given, I would be totally lost and overwhelmed myself.

I will pray that the answers that you think are good will indeed be good for Ava. I made my suggestions and clearly, you feel that a vet is not in order. I hope you are right and she does well. :)

so are you saying Ann who is on the cushings group is trying to diagnose her own dog lollll ?

How about Dr tobias who is well known on here for liver shunt surgery? Her assistant is on the yahoogroups.

People are not diagnosing their dogs on these groups they are gathering information to help their dogs which is a good thing. These are mostly pet owners that see specialists all over the world for certain conditions their dogs are going through and are helping others with the information in trying to understand what their vet does not have time to explain many times. I have read many times and just read it the other day on the GME group my dog would have died had I not been on this group to learn about the current protocol by Dr Sisson so i think these groups are saving some dogs lives. They are also a great means of support for people who are dealing with a certain disease with their dog.

They are also not avoiding vet bills on the groups as many have spent thousands like myself. If they did not care about their dogs they would not go on there to learn and would just put their dogs to sleep like many pet owners do with dogs with illnesses or turn them over to rescues. I commend people for trying to learn to take care of their dogs and put them down for doing things such as this.

linda i talk to her vet everyday; i am listening to opinions but not necessarly taking advice. i am not going to treat ava myself as she needs medical help. i am following the exact treatment her vet prescribed.
those groups are out there to support and help people and they are allowed to express their opinion. i am not understanding why you are getting so defensive. i am just trying to gather as much knowldege as i can about this disease; i want to hear people who went throught the same thing and what approach their vet took; so i can question my vet. ava got this bad because i didn't research and ask around. so these groups and advice actually help believe it or not; especially if opinions are coming from certified internist and specialist. and no it's not to avoid a vet bill; because i went monday and i spent 250 for famotidine and dexamethasone injection; and i don't have further information about this disease. to me that was to mask the symptoms not really to treat the disease.
i am not forcing anyone to post their opinion or stories.

meant to say and will not put them down for doing things such as this

Did you not say that you use these groups to help you figure out what is wrong with your dogs? Isnt that diagnosing. Didn't you also say that doing this cuts down on vet bills? Or, am I misreading and misinterpreting again? I don't want to misinterpret anything...just trying to understand is all. :)

Oh...you have joined GME now? :)

I honestly don't care what you think and do and suggest...that is entirely up to you....I do it differently and I disagree with much of it and I suggest what has worked for me. My pups are all in great shape and their illnesses and skin conditions are nipped in the bud early before they are out of control from me playing around trying to find the answer which is what a lot of people do. By the time they get to a vet, the condition has worsened. Have you not seen that on YT? Or even on the Yahoo groups? I certainly have.

After seeing the one diagnosis made on Roriee by the LS group.... I was stunned and it clinched my previous thoughts about some of these people on these groups. Her problem figured out....and was constipation and Lactulose helped??? Did you happen to see that? :rolleyes:

Anyway....that is my opinion. You can LOL all day long..I will still have the same opinion. I don't care who they are...if they are diagnosing, I believe they are going out on a limb. Assistants...techs, vets..whoever they are or say they are. They don't even know for sure that they are being given accurate information by the owners.

i agree; different groups are there for different reasons. the ones i joined in yahoo has vets and nutritionists. i dont necessarly have to take their advice but it helps to see what works for other people with similar stories.
today i learned something new about ava's blood work. her vet didnt go over the results with me; but this internist looked it over and told me his opinion. i researched him and he's a famous internist. so i was greatful that he took his time to explain to me and answer my questions. he also told me to go to a specialist; so he's not trying to diagnose or treat her over the net, he just told me i need to see a specialist; because her vet is good but maybe overlooking some things.
so we are not forcing people to give advice; they are free to do whatever; but we can't influence or stop people from helping either.

As I said...I will pray for Ava. I hope the new food helps her. :)

I was not referring to you about avoiding a vet bill. I know how much you have spent. :) It was a general statement and not personal at all.

i am hoping and praying so too that this food will be the one; it's really driving me mad :eek:

I think these groups can be okay to an extent. Personally, I have no problem with people sharing stories about similar problems and even making some recommendations.

This doesn't bother me:
"This part of the bloodwork is a little weird, so maybe you should ask your vet about doing x test. And maybe xyz drug or food would be a better option. See what your vet thinks."

This bothers me:
This part of the bloodwork is high, so it couldn't be xyz. And that drug isn't going to work. Go get xyz drug over the counter, etc.

The first one is giving suggestions. The second is practicing veterinary medicine. And the second does happen on these groups.

I don't think an internists looking at test results and trying to figure things out online is wrong as long as they direct you back to a vet that you can actually go see. That said, of all the vets I've met, I don't think any of them would ever do any of it. As one of them said, "Until I find a way to do exams over the phone or internet, you'll have to come in." lol.

Anyway, any information given by a client is probably at least slightly off anyway. Most clients don't even have the vet's notes about the exam done and/or missed things while vet was explaining. So online vet doesn't even know what was found on exam, etc.

I read and try to get information from people with experience, but the ultimate decision on what to do (even when talking about little things) is made by Ellie's vet and I together.

:thumbup::thumbup: Thank you for an excellent post! I am definitely on the same page, but did not word it as well. :)

yep sure did join GME group as i like to educate myself. Nothing wrong with learning more about what affects the maltese and yorkie breed. Learned there many times it occurs within 2 months of a dog having a vaccination like my friends maltese. Learned Dr Sisson is the expert on this as well.

Had i not joined the liver shunt group my dog would have had radioactive dye in her body from a scintigraphy she did not need. Also her thyroid would have went undetected and further dropped as vet kept saying it cannot be her thyroid why she is losing her hair on her neck. I found Dr Dodds on these groups as well who is the vaccine protocol most follow for their dogs. I would have not known about titers. I can go on and on on things that have been helpful from these groups.

You yourself are doing the same thing that goes on with these groups helping pet owners with information so how can you offer advice on one hand and then poo poo it on the other hand. Is it you think your advice is the only proper way to give people advice? Advice is Advice period there is no proper way to give it. If you think it is wrong the way people are giving advice then you should not be doing the same thing yourself.

My only challenge is my dee dee's allergies which there is no real cure for. Dex and Demi are fine and have been for years with an occassional bump in the road.

I will never understand why you put people down for trying to help their dogs with health issues and to educate themselves. It is beyond my comprehension. I do not think all people who are not in the medical profession are idiots. There are some very sharp people with sick dogs who have dealt with these illnesses 24/7 year in and year out and have learned alot from doing this as well.

I see all things on YT and on yahoogroups. I see where vets make mistakes alot too on these groups and dogs die.

I have not put anyone down. I have stated my opinions. Not going to defend myself against your accusations. No reason for that.

It is ok to disagree with me and I with you. :)

That is not putting someone down. :)

so you do not think that vets send blood work or xrays to a specialist who does not see the dog to do consultations?

Why on yt do we have in the library a list of doseages for medications?

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...g-dosages.html

that was exactly what i tried to tell you; the internist wasnt trying to diagnose or treat ava over the net; he was mearly offering suggestion and opinion. so ellie mae didn't say anything new or different than what i said.
anyway enough about this; let's go back to the original posting and get along.:D

so far ava is doing well on the prednisone back to once daily and ground turkey and oatmeal. she's pretty hungry so that's a good sign.:)

Well, that's a vet talking to another vet and that wasn't what I was talking about. This was something that could be seen on physical exam... But I don't see anything wrong with looking at bloodwork for somebody anyway.

I didn't put a list of dosages there, but I'd hope if somebody is three hours from a vet and their dog got stung, they would have help on how much Benadryl to give, etc. I would think of this as instructions in a first aid kit.

I am talking about how the information is presented. There is nothing wrong with giving all of the suggestions in the world. It's mostly in the wording (and I'm sure I've worded poorly many times). I know it isn't always fun to be so careful over wording, but anybody on the internet can read this stuff and take the advice and then whoever said to give drug xyz for abc condition has practiced vet med without a license.

Anway, I'm tired of talking about this now. lol

they can always call an ER for doseages of benedryl if they live 3 hrs away and there is more than just benedryl on that list.

I personally take all info and discuss with vet or specialist myself so I have to think most would do the same. If they are trying to just save a buck then that is on them. I do not cut corners myself when it comes to the health of my dogs or myself but i surely will educate myself for both after what i see day in and day out on groups. I will never blindly trust again.

No one on here that i know of can do mri, spinal tap, xray, etc so all we can do is say hey get to a neurologist if it looks like a neurological condition from what they are describing so how is that diagnosing a dog? If the owner goes to a neurologist then they can perform the proper tests to diagnose the dog and treat it. If they do not treat for the right condition or owner refuses to pay for the tests that is on them not us who are trying to get the owner to the right place. I guarantee you most new pet owners and even old pet owners do not know about specialists so advising them is a good thing. I know i didn't know about these until my dog got sick. Now i personally see a ims for my own health and no longer go to a general practitioner bc of it as i pay for medical and now know ims takes further schooling in medicine than a GP. Thanks to Dex i learned this and have the best doc for my own care.

also owners who have sick dogs learn to read blood work real well and sadly most vets do not really know alot about blood work as they rely on the labs to interpret it for them and why you see normal range and highs and lows so if that was not the case why would the labs put that on there?

guys please stop; every one has a different opinion about this; so we can go at it all week.
however i really don't want to hear it or read it anymore. you have all stated ur opinion and been noted.
thanks

Ok; i finally found a specialist
i made appoint for next week with internist; specialized in gastro
Oradell Animal Hospital

not cheap but i want a second opinion; consultation visit $160
diagnosis or anything else extra
that's normal right?

yes that is how much i have paid for a specialist is 160.00 for initial consult

I like that they are women too ;) I think women are much more detailed and compassionate than most men- sorry Men lol

Are you serious...:confused:

That is a normal price for a specialist, and believe me, it will be worth every penny and more.

On Thursday, I had to take Wylie to a Vet Ophthalmologist (cataract, R eye), and the initial consult was $290, not even kidding!!!!!!!!!

At the same practice, however, we've seen a Vet Derm ($130) and an Internist ($145) -- and even though the wallet says "owie", the mind is put so at ease and these specialists are just amazing!