Devastated ,lily kisses might not make the night - Page 7 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

4doggiemama · 07-02-2009, 03:33 PM

Hello Becky....I am so glad to hear from you. Internet has been down for the day so I didn't know what was going on. It's such a wonderful miracle that Lily Kisses made it through the night. I'm sure that the prayers and your nursing skills played a big part in it. Don't know if you know it or not, but Ellie May is our resident medical guru. She has great advice. Hugs to you and Lily Kisses.

manolos mom · 07-02-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4doggiemama

Hello Becky....I am so glad to hear from you. Internet has been down for the day so I didn't know what was going on. It's such a wonderful miracle that Lily Kisses made it through the night. I'm sure that the prayers and your nursing skills played a big part in it. Don't know if you know it or not, but Ellie May is our resident medical guru. She has great advice. Hugs to you and Lily Kisses.

Ellie May · 07-02-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4doggiemama

Hello Becky....I am so glad to hear from you. Internet has been down for the day so I didn't know what was going on. It's such a wonderful miracle that Lily Kisses made it through the night. I'm sure that the prayers and your nursing skills played a big part in it. Don't know if you know it or not, but Ellie May is our resident medical guru. She has great advice. Hugs to you and Lily Kisses.

lol, not really but thanks.

Seriously, I really don't know much about medicine at all.
I just happen to know about LS because of Miss Ellie.

ChantalB · 07-02-2009, 03:55 PM

I am so glad to hear that Lily is doing a little better...

SANDYSAND · 07-02-2009, 03:56 PM

I am super happy to hear about Lily! Thank God

manolos mom · 07-02-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

lol, not really but thanks.

Seriously, I really don't know much about medicine at all.
I just happen to know about LS because of Miss Ellie.

Dont sell yourself short, you have been here for all of us. And yes, you know more about Yorkies and their medical conditions than most vets.

pollyanna · 07-02-2009, 04:24 PM

I am so happy to hear that Lilly made it through the night and is doing better. I am certain it is because of your constant loving care and the iv. She knows you are there for her and she is trying to pull through because she loves you so much.

I paid $100 for the Bile Acid Tests, and my vets are not cheap. The additional charges are probably for keeping her overnight and on iv.

I am not sure that leaving her overnight is a good idea. She has responded so well to your personal care. Maybe she will not do so well alone in a cage all night. Pollyanna is a service dog and grieves when she is separated from me and the wheelchair. My vet let me bring her in fasted in the morning. He took blood for 10 minutes. I was allowed to take her home, not feeding her. I brought her back in 2 hours and he fed her and retook the blood. It was quite seamless. Don't be afraid to express your wishes if you would rather not leave Lilly. You know your dog and how she responds.

Love and prayers. w

AmyChristine · 07-02-2009, 05:52 PM

I am so glad to hear that she is doing better. I really hope that you're able to get some real answers soon.

I am not sure why they would want to keep her over night for a bile acid test. Especially if you could give her IV at home and she is responding well. I dropped Copper off as soon as the vet opened and they took the first blood draw, kept him about 2 hours and then I came and picked him up. It costed about $100. My vet didn't want to even do the test at first, he thought that the symptoms could be other neuro problems and even told me not to expect a liver problem. I insisted that he do the test and afterwards he called me personally with the results and appologized.

I

mscat · 07-02-2009, 06:05 PM

I am very glad she made it through the night . I am wondering if the rice is causing her not to poop though? In humans rice can actually make a person clog up , and that is part of the diet that is reccomended to eat in children when they have been sick , it is the BRAT diet, Banana's , rice , applesace , toast. In such a tiny pup, I am thinking that such a small amount of rice could be why the pup is a little constipated? Just a guess.
Whatever this tiny puppy needs , for LS testing I'd have done, however if their is a less expensive DR. that is reccomended , then go to him. Since Ellie May lives in your area , I believe she is the best one to help you with that.
Keep us posted and updated please. My thoughts and prayers are with you and little Lily.

becky k · 07-02-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

A bile acids test is two blood draws.
One before and meal and one after.
They can be hospitalized in between for about 2 hours.
It is around $100, so they want to charge you an extra $1100 just for an overnight stay and IV. I personally would look elsewhere.

Whether you trust the vet and decide to keep her on this diet is up to you.
Without further testing I don't think anyone can tell you what the best option would be. I would keep her on the IV if she is doing well. There is really no reason not to, right?

It may be risky to change her diet and upset her stomach but I think I'd talk to my vet about canned L/D and possibly forcing it if needed. I would also ask about lactulose.

Do you remember what she ate the day before this happened? she had not eaten anything diff than her normal dry food. the night before. the vet did not give me a copy of her blood work but i can ask for one. he believes she has to fast for the 12 hours and thats why he says over night stay at hosp. with ivs or she will get hypoglycemic. also he said she is already sl anemic which is not unusal for a pup her age. i am keeping the iv going but getting harder now that she will get up and walk around a little and she s trying hard to tear it out now with her teeth. i think motoer skills are improved but she mentally acts strange still.

Are her mental abilities and motor skills getting better or worse?

Can you post a copy of her blood work for us?

i posted the answer in wrong spot i think i added it to your post so read your post again .sorry

love_08 · 07-02-2009, 08:34 PM

Aww I am so sorry but don't worry God will help you through this. Lily will be in myy prayers and so will you. My yorkie and I send lily hugs.

TLC · 07-03-2009, 04:00 AM

I think your doing a great job and you have medical experience. She is responding to you and her home.

I have to agree that she may be too young, too tiny and too fragile right now to go through the Bile Acid Test. Even though the 12 hour fast is NOT required anymore (Vets still need to be aware of the new protocol), I don't think she should do the Post Draw either right now....I think when she gets stronger - then yes the BAT is important.

I think if you trust your Vet and they say to continue with the IV, then I would do that, and the antib's too.

...BUT...I still think she has a Liver Shunt and I see no reason why she can not start on the meds and low protein diet.

Even if the shunt is confirmed, no surgeon would darn to LS surgery on a 9 week old, tiny and fragile sick pup. She needs to get strong and more weight before any good surgeon would consider her a candidate for LS surgery.

I would get her on Lactulose. Lactulose, a disaccharide sugar containing galactose and fructose, is used for the treatment of hepatic encephalopathy in veterinary medicine. The active ingredient, lactulose, works by reducing the ammonia build up in the blood. The large number of resident bacteria in the intestine consumes the unabsorbed lactose as their food and release lactic, acetic, and formic acid and carbon dioxide gas. These acids draw fluid into the colon, softening the stool. The acidification of the bowel contents draws ammonia from the bloodstream and locks it there to be emitted with the stool. This action aids the prevention of a form of dementia called hepatic encephalopathy.

I would get her on the proper food. Either Hills L/D wet or Royal Canin Hepatic LS 14 (prescription) (dry). Or take my suggestion about the egg and noodles. The issue with Meat, Chicken and Organ is that they are very high in protein AND very high in purines. They are basically poison to her little body. The toxins are so much and if she has a LS, those toxins can not be filtered by her liver, instead they escape thru the shunt and go right into her blood stream directly to her brain and so on. Being that she is so tiny and so young and so fragile right now, YES this can kill her....sorry to have been so blunt, but you need to know....

Protein from veggies and dairy (eggs and cottage cheese, goat cheese) is very low, and they are very low in purines too. So when you feed this type of protein (in small amounts, spaced out) her liver is not being stressed to the max, and the amount of ammonia that passes thru the shunt is very minimal, but that's where the Lactulose comes in, bc it will bind to those escaped toxins and help rid them thru her waste. But a diet needs to be mostly carbs, then veggies and then a very minimal amount of quality protein, hence a low protein diet.

She needs to be pooping often (like soft ice cream). The poop build up in her body is poison too. Until you get Lactulose, try feeding her a little apple sauce, this will help her at least get the poop building up out.

You guys are in my prayers, and please let me know if I can do anything at all more for you....

4doggiemama · 07-03-2009, 04:38 AM

Wow, Becky, TLC has given you very detailed info. Sure hope that helps you deal with little Lily Kisses along with your medical knowledge. You must be so exhausted, but I know you love Lily Kisses and you'll do what you have to. Hope you have a good day with Lily Kisses. ~Joanne~

roxies_mom · 07-03-2009, 04:42 AM

First let me say that I'm so glad that Lily is hanging in there and fighting. Your doing a great job and so much care and concern from YT is great.
I can't believe the test is 100 dollars and they want to charge you over 1000 just to keep her overnight. What are they giving her a gold cage? If they keep her overnight will someone be at this place round the clock?
I also have a question about ls. How old are most dogs when this starts to rear it's ugly head?

Ellie May · 07-03-2009, 04:50 AM

Question:
If she is on IVs at home now, why can't she be on them at home overnight the night before the test?

At the same time I would probably not draw blood from her right now.
I would just treat it as LS until she gets stronger because it can't hurt.

07-02-2009, 03:33 PM	#91
4doggiemama Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: KS Posts: 3,290	Hello Becky....I am so glad to hear from you. Internet has been down for the day so I didn't know what was going on. It's such a wonderful miracle that Lily Kisses made it through the night. I'm sure that the prayers and your nursing skills played a big part in it. Don't know if you know it or not, but Ellie May is our resident medical guru. She has great advice. Hugs to you and Lily Kisses. __________________ Joanne Eli ChipperEva Snowboy Rosie(R.I.P. 1996-July 29, 2013) Cocoa(R.I.P 1998-April 26, 2012):

07-02-2009, 03:56 PM	#95
SANDYSAND Mommy Loves Koda & Kacy! Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Home of the NY Yankees Posts: 6,500	I am super happy to hear about Lily! Thank God __________________ http://www.onetruemedia.com/shared?p=3a2e8eedc3dc6290fbd72e&skin_id=1603&utm_s ource=otm&utm_medium=text_url Mommy Loves:Koda & Kacy. Smile Life is a GIFT First Lady of the SRC~ Koda Benji

07-02-2009, 04:24 PM	#97
pollyanna YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Massapequa Posts: 4	Prayers for Lilly Kisses I am so happy to hear that Lilly made it through the night and is doing better. I am certain it is because of your constant loving care and the iv. She knows you are there for her and she is trying to pull through because she loves you so much. I paid $100 for the Bile Acid Tests, and my vets are not cheap. The additional charges are probably for keeping her overnight and on iv. I am not sure that leaving her overnight is a good idea. She has responded so well to your personal care. Maybe she will not do so well alone in a cage all night. Pollyanna is a service dog and grieves when she is separated from me and the wheelchair. My vet let me bring her in fasted in the morning. He took blood for 10 minutes. I was allowed to take her home, not feeding her. I brought her back in 2 hours and he fed her and retook the blood. It was quite seamless. Don't be afraid to express your wishes if you would rather not leave Lilly. You know your dog and how she responds. Love and prayers. w

07-02-2009, 05:52 PM	#98
AmyChristine YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 1,184	I am so glad to hear that she is doing better. I really hope that you're able to get some real answers soon. I am not sure why they would want to keep her over night for a bile acid test. Especially if you could give her IV at home and she is responding well. I dropped Copper off as soon as the vet opened and they took the first blood draw, kept him about 2 hours and then I came and picked him up. It costed about $100. My vet didn't want to even do the test at first, he thought that the symptoms could be other neuro problems and even told me not to expect a liver problem. I insisted that he do the test and afterwards he called me personally with the results and appologized. I __________________ My belongs to Copper and Maddie Mae RIP Sweet Rocky Mommy misses you

07-02-2009, 06:05 PM	#99
mscat YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hanford, CA Posts: 4,895	I am very glad she made it through the night . I am wondering if the rice is causing her not to poop though? In humans rice can actually make a person clog up , and that is part of the diet that is reccomended to eat in children when they have been sick , it is the BRAT diet, Banana's , rice , applesace , toast. In such a tiny pup, I am thinking that such a small amount of rice could be why the pup is a little constipated? Just a guess. Whatever this tiny puppy needs , for LS testing I'd have done, however if their is a less expensive DR. that is reccomended , then go to him. Since Ellie May lives in your area , I believe she is the best one to help you with that. Keep us posted and updated please. My thoughts and prayers are with you and little Lily. __________________ "No matter how little money & how few possessions, you own, having a dog makes you rich."

07-02-2009, 03:55 PM	#94
ChantalB Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,042	I am so glad to hear that Lily is doing a little better...

07-02-2009, 08:34 PM	#101
love_08 Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: us Posts: 33	Aww I am so sorry but don't worry God will help you through this. Lily will be in myy prayers and so will you. My yorkie and I send lily hugs.

07-03-2009, 04:00 AM	#102
TLC Slave to My Rug-Rats Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Long Island Posts: 7,247	I think your doing a great job and you have medical experience. She is responding to you and her home. I have to agree that she may be too young, too tiny and too fragile right now to go through the Bile Acid Test. Even though the 12 hour fast is NOT required anymore (Vets still need to be aware of the new protocol), I don't think she should do the Post Draw either right now....I think when she gets stronger - then yes the BAT is important. I think if you trust your Vet and they say to continue with the IV, then I would do that, and the antib's too. ...BUT...I still think she has a Liver Shunt and I see no reason why she can not start on the meds and low protein diet. Even if the shunt is confirmed, no surgeon would darn to LS surgery on a 9 week old, tiny and fragile sick pup. She needs to get strong and more weight before any good surgeon would consider her a candidate for LS surgery. I would get her on Lactulose. Lactulose, a disaccharide sugar containing galactose and fructose, is used for the treatment of hepatic encephalopathy in veterinary medicine. The active ingredient, lactulose, works by reducing the ammonia build up in the blood. The large number of resident bacteria in the intestine consumes the unabsorbed lactose as their food and release lactic, acetic, and formic acid and carbon dioxide gas. These acids draw fluid into the colon, softening the stool. The acidification of the bowel contents draws ammonia from the bloodstream and locks it there to be emitted with the stool. This action aids the prevention of a form of dementia called hepatic encephalopathy. I would get her on the proper food. Either Hills L/D wet or Royal Canin Hepatic LS 14 (prescription) (dry). Or take my suggestion about the egg and noodles. The issue with Meat, Chicken and Organ is that they are very high in protein AND very high in purines. They are basically poison to her little body. The toxins are so much and if she has a LS, those toxins can not be filtered by her liver, instead they escape thru the shunt and go right into her blood stream directly to her brain and so on. Being that she is so tiny and so young and so fragile right now, YES this can kill her....sorry to have been so blunt, but you need to know.... Protein from veggies and dairy (eggs and cottage cheese, goat cheese) is very low, and they are very low in purines too. So when you feed this type of protein (in small amounts, spaced out) her liver is not being stressed to the max, and the amount of ammonia that passes thru the shunt is very minimal, but that's where the Lactulose comes in, bc it will bind to those escaped toxins and help rid them thru her waste. But a diet needs to be mostly carbs, then veggies and then a very minimal amount of quality protein, hence a low protein diet. She needs to be pooping often (like soft ice cream). The poop build up in her body is poison too. Until you get Lactulose, try feeding her a little apple sauce, this will help her at least get the poop building up out. You guys are in my prayers, and please let me know if I can do anything at all more for you.... __________________ Adopt Donate Foster www.yorkie911rescue.com

07-03-2009, 04:38 AM	#103
4doggiemama Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: KS Posts: 3,290	Wow, Becky, TLC has given you very detailed info. Sure hope that helps you deal with little Lily Kisses along with your medical knowledge. You must be so exhausted, but I know you love Lily Kisses and you'll do what you have to. Hope you have a good day with Lily Kisses. ~Joanne~ __________________ Joanne Eli ChipperEva Snowboy Rosie(R.I.P. 1996-July 29, 2013) Cocoa(R.I.P 1998-April 26, 2012):

07-03-2009, 04:42 AM	#104
roxies_mom YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: central illinois Posts: 1,396 Blog Entries: 1	First let me say that I'm so glad that Lily is hanging in there and fighting. Your doing a great job and so much care and concern from YT is great. I can't believe the test is 100 dollars and they want to charge you over 1000 just to keep her overnight. What are they giving her a gold cage? If they keep her overnight will someone be at this place round the clock? I also have a question about ls. How old are most dogs when this starts to rear it's ugly head? __________________ "My sunshine doesn't come from the skies, it comes from the love in my dogs eyes"

07-03-2009, 04:50 AM	#105
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	Question: If she is on IVs at home now, why can't she be on them at home overnight the night before the test? At the same time I would probably not draw blood from her right now. I would just treat it as LS until she gets stronger because it can't hurt. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶