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Old 09-19-2008, 09:00 AM   #1
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were is the best place to get blood for blood suger testing ????
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Old 09-19-2008, 03:21 PM   #2
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When I needed to watch Ceasars blood sugar last year, the vet said I could try behind his neck. May work for you.
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Old 09-20-2008, 02:31 PM   #3
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My vet instructed me to poke Winston's ear to check his blood sugar. So far I have not been able to bring myself to do it. His ear is so tiny/thin...I'm afraid to do it. Waiting for any other response on this...very curious.
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Old 09-20-2008, 02:36 PM   #4
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I test my mini schnauzer several times a day. The inside of the upper lip is easiest. If you flip up the top lip and poke right in line with the canine, very close to the lip line. Good luck. My girl is very tollerant of this.
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:08 PM   #5
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i always wondered about that myself.... Poor doggies.... I am sure it is not fun !!!
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:56 PM   #6
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I use the inside of Lady's lip. Some people can get a drop of blood from the tail area, but I never had any luck. Ear pricks work best on cats.

Here are some demos:

Dog Lip Prick

Pet Diabetes - Jake demonstrates Blood Testing from the lip of a diabetic dog

Pet Diabetes - Daisy Poses for Blood taking from the tail
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Old 09-27-2008, 03:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom View Post
I use the inside of Lady's lip. Some people can get a drop of blood from the tail area, but I never had any luck. Ear pricks work best on cats.

Here are some demos:

Dog Lip Prick

Pet Diabetes - Jake demonstrates Blood Testing from the lip of a diabetic dog

Pet Diabetes - Daisy Poses for Blood taking from the tail
Thank you so much for this information and with pictures no less. I think the tail area may be the answer I am looking for. Winston is not yet a diabetic...but for some unknown reason at around age 2 (he is now 4) he started having seizures that the vet believes is related to low blood sugar. He gives little, if any warning before he starts seizing. That alone is terrifying, I was instructed to check his sugar at the very first sign of a seizure...in hopes that we can prove the hypoglycemia comes before the seizure and not vice versa. I am going to check into that meter also, sounds much easier to manipulate the strip alone without it being attached to a meter. I do know that hypoglycemia often leads to diabetes. I am so scared for my little guy, I just want him to be well. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with us.
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Old 09-27-2008, 03:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wemple2 View Post
Thank you so much for this information and with pictures no less. I think the tail area may be the answer I am looking for. Winston is not yet a diabetic...but for some unknown reason at around age 2 (he is now 4) he started having seizures that the vet believes is related to low blood sugar. He gives little, if any warning before he starts seizing. That alone is terrifying, I was instructed to check his sugar at the very first sign of a seizure...in hopes that we can prove the hypoglycemia comes before the seizure and not vice versa. I am going to check into that meter also, sounds much easier to manipulate the strip alone without it being attached to a meter. I do know that hypoglycemia often leads to diabetes. I am so scared for my little guy, I just want him to be well. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with us.
That's a really old meter. It took a lot of blood. They don't even make them anymore. The new meters only require the tiniest drop of blood which is especially helpful if you want to try the tail stick method.

I have the Ultra One Touch Mini for Lady. It is really easy to use.

One Touch Ultra Mini Blood Glucose Meter Kit Jet Black at Hocks.Com

Lady is also an epileptic. Seizures are no fun. Did you know that the seizure itself lowers blood sugar? Dogs can experience a drop in blood sugar right before they seize. That might be what is happening with Winston.

This is from my "bible" on seizures:


Ice Cream After Seizures

The reason behind this is that blood sugar levels often drop drastically before or during seizures and the ice cream will bring the blood sugar level back to normal. The way it works is the sugar in the ice cream will bring the blood sugar level back up to normal while the butter or fat holds the sugar in suspension so that it doesn't cause a sugar rush which plain sugar or honey or molasses would. Bringing the blood sugar level up too quickly is not good which is why we recommend ice cream. Also, bringing the blood sugar level up to normal can help to prevent additional seizures. Low blood sugar itself can cause seizures. If your dog has very obvious pre-seizure behavior and you give a little ice cream before a seizure happens, this can sometimes stop the seizure altogether. Please be sure to thaw the ice cream a bit by letting it sit out on the counter or "zapping" it in the microwave briefly - you don't want to chill your dog too much or have him gulp down frozen ice cream.


Canine Epilepsy and Dog Seizures Table of Contents - Canine Epilepsy Guardian Angels
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Old 09-27-2008, 05:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom View Post
That's a really old meter. It took a lot of blood. They don't even make them anymore. The new meters only require the tiniest drop of blood which is especially helpful if you want to try the tail stick method.

I have the Ultra One Touch Mini for Lady. It is really easy to use.

One Touch Ultra Mini Blood Glucose Meter Kit Jet Black at Hocks.Com

Lady is also an epileptic. Seizures are no fun. Did you know that the seizure itself lowers blood sugar? Dogs can experience a drop in blood sugar right before they seize. That might be what is happening with Winston.

This is from my "bible" on seizures:


Ice Cream After Seizures

The reason behind this is that blood sugar levels often drop drastically before or during seizures and the ice cream will bring the blood sugar level back to normal. The way it works is the sugar in the ice cream will bring the blood sugar level back up to normal while the butter or fat holds the sugar in suspension so that it doesn't cause a sugar rush which plain sugar or honey or molasses would. Bringing the blood sugar level up too quickly is not good which is why we recommend ice cream. Also, bringing the blood sugar level up to normal can help to prevent additional seizures. Low blood sugar itself can cause seizures. If your dog has very obvious pre-seizure behavior and you give a little ice cream before a seizure happens, this can sometimes stop the seizure altogether. Please be sure to thaw the ice cream a bit by letting it sit out on the counter or "zapping" it in the microwave briefly - you don't want to chill your dog too much or have him gulp down frozen ice cream.


Canine Epilepsy and Dog Seizures Table of Contents - Canine Epilepsy Guardian Angels
Darn...I liked the idea of using the strip without it being in the meter. I do know quite a bit about diabetes and glucose monitors...I was a Medical Assistant in a doctors office for over twenty years, I've done my fair share of finger pokes. So I know how to use the meter and I know the newer ones require a very small amount of blood. The vet suggested checking his sugar at the very first sign...in order to help us figure out which comes first the low blood sugar or the seizure. I've also heard about giving ice cream...but there is no way he will eat anything...I mean he's seizing...he can't even stand let alone eat anything. The only thing I can do is rub NutriCal on the roof of his mouth/gums/tongue...LOL sometimes all over his poor little face, after 10 to 15 minutes he comes around...still wobbly but able to stand and then try to get him to eat something to keep his sugar up. We are already feeding him at least 4 times a day, with treats given in between if he's particularly active. I know I have to do it...check his sugar that is...I just can't handle a seizing dog and trying to poke him and get a drop of blood on the strip at the same time...I only have 2 hands!!! When this first started, I took him to the vet each time...his sugar was always dangerously low...in the 20's and 30's. But the act of having a seizure could also do this. So which came first the chicken or the egg?
Again, thanks for your input...I've been dealing with this for a couple years now, seen numerous vets. Still don't have any answers. What causes an adult well fed Yorkie to all of a sudden have low blood sugar's?
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Old 09-27-2008, 05:45 PM   #10
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The meter I have is so small it is really easy to use. My first one was much larger. Meters, like telephones, have gotten really tiny.

I agree, though. I can't imagine trying to check blood sugar during or right after a seizure.

Is he especially small? Sometimes the tiny ones (under three pounds) can't regulate their own blood sugar.

How often does he have seizures?
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Old 09-27-2008, 06:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
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The meter I have is so small it is really easy to use. My first one was much larger. Meters, like telephones, have gotten really tiny.

I agree, though. I can't imagine trying to check blood sugar during or right after a seizure.

Is he especially small? Sometimes the tiny ones (under three pounds) can't regulate their own blood sugar.

How often does he have seizures?
No, he's not a tiny...he was probably around 6 pounds when this all first started...now he's well over 7 pounds, down from 8 pounds (his highest). The vet put him on prescription food with more carbs and less fat and protein to keep him from getting too fat, yet enough to attempt keeping his glucose levels up. He still has these seizures on a pretty regular basis...at least once or twice a month, usually after being overly active. But gosh, he's a dog...he doesn't understand that he should rest once in awhile...he loves going on walks...now I've gotten to where I'm afraid to take him, in fear of him having a seizure away from home...he loves to play frisbee and fetch with his ball...but after awhile I have to put his toys away, just so he'll just stop running around so much...it's rather sad, really.
Maybe I should just give him a little bit of ice cream on a daily basis. Or I've thought about putting drops of Karo syrup in his water. I don't know what to do.
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Old 09-27-2008, 08:35 PM   #12
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Has your vet done glucose curves on him like they do with diabetic dogs? Is he sure the seizures are caused by hypoglycemia, not the other way around?

Seizures cause low blood sugar. Lady is prone to cluster seizures. I have checked her blood sugar on days when she has had multiple seizures and it is really low, around 40 - with no insulin. Her blood glucose normally is up over 400 if she misses a shot.

I'm concerned about the frequency of his seizures. Has your vet ever talked to you about kindling? It's a phenomenon that causes the brain to rewire itself each time Winston has a seizure so it makes a path to make the next seizure easier.

Kindling is the experimental phenomenon whereby repeated stimulation of the brain can eventually induce a chronic epileptic state that persists after the stimulation is stopped.

The underlying mechanisms of kindling are incompletely understood but involve changes in the electrical behavior of a group of brain cells. This may be related to alterations of chemical receptors (specifically what are called NMDA subtype of glutamate receptors) and changes in how these brain cells connect with each other through structures called synapses.

In a sense, by having repeated seizure the brain "learns" how to have seizures. Think about how a young child learning to write their name has to concentrate when printing each letter. After doing this over and over, we become able to quickly write our name without even thinking about the intricate hand movements involved. Obviously there is some change in our brain that allows this to happen, but it does not have to be a structural lesion.

I think of kindling as something similar. The brain is doing what it is designed to do...learn. It is just learning to do something harmful like have a seizure.


WB Thomas, DVM
Dipl. ACVIM (Neurology)
University of Tennessee
Knoxville, TN

Canine Epilepsy-Frequently asked questions about the diagnosis, treatment and management of seizures in dogs

I can't help but think maybe Winston has idiopathic epilepsy like Lady and his low blood sugar is a result of his seizures, not the cause. Have you ever consulted an internist? There is no test for epilepsy, a diagnosis is made by ruling out other things. I assume he has had complete bloodwork including a thyroid panel?

Has your vet ever discussed putting Winston on medication to control his seizures? My vet said that a couple of seizures a year were no big deal, but anything more frequent should be treated to prevent the seizures from becoming more frequent.

Perhaps treating the seizures would give both you and Winston a chance at a normal life. It breaks my heart to think that you are afraid to take him places or play with him for fear of a seizure. Epilepsy can be controlled: it shouldn't control you. Lady hasn't had a seizure in several years thanks to her medication.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:23 PM   #13
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Winston has had a lot of blood test, including thyroid and bile acid testing. Most recently he was to have insulin levels checked. He had fasted all night when I took him in...he fasted all day at the vet's office...but his glucose levels never dropped below normal. We tried this on a couple of different occasions. She wanted to see if his body for some reason was producing to much insulin. Insulinoma was mentioned. This frightened me so I asked for a referral to an Internist. The specialist said she did not suspect an Insulinoma...stating he was the wrong age and the wrong breed. She checked his sugar that day and stated it was a little low in the 60's but he was having no symptoms what so ever. It was her suggestion that I keep track of his sugar's by poking his ear to test his blood at the very first sign of each seizure. If it is consistently low at the start of a seizure we could blame hypoglycemia. If it is not consistently low, we can rule that out and consider the seizure comes first...and treat the seizure. His regular vet did want to start him on medication for seizures...she did suggest a couple different options. She also was very concerned about the frequency of these episodes. What medication does Lady take for her seizures? I'm very torn on this, I take him in for check ups...and the vets see him acting normal...and seem to think if he eats frequent small meals and limits his activity to conserve energy/sugar he'll be just fine. But then it happens again...and I haven't been able to check his sugar at home, although I will try the tail method you mentioned and see what happens. I am scared for him...it is not pleasant to watch him and feel as though I'm doing nothing to help him. Another question, how long does Lady's seizures last? This is what makes me think it's not epileptic seizures...his last longer...and he only comes out of it with NutriCal. I've thought about this a lot...and I still have no answer, thanks for listening...I truly do appreciate your input.
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Old 09-28-2008, 05:55 AM   #14
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You poor thing. You've been through the mill trying to find out what is wrong with your boy.

Lady has Grand Mal seizures that seem to last forever, but they really don't and she comes out of them by herself.

I guess trying to check his blood glucose randomly throughout the day is the best idea. Then you would know for sure if he is hypoglycemic. I don't think I'd put too much stock in a BG test right before a seizure since the blood glucose normally drops then.

Lady gets both phenobarbital and potassium bromide. Phenobarbital is hard on the liver, but you can give supplements to protect it. I have given Lady milk thistle almost right from the start and now, after 9&1/2 years, her ALT is finally elevated. I adopted her at age four and she was having seizures every few days so who knows how long she'd been epileptic. Pheno alone didn't control her seizures. They were better, only every few months or so, but after about 1.5 years she began having cluster seizures. We added potassium bromide then. That controlled her seizures and she hasn't had one in two years now.

Keppra is also an anti-seizure medication that I have heard great things about.

I pray you can find out what is causing his seizures and get them under control. Seizures are horrible to watch. You never get used to them. I can't imagine how much scarier it would be to have a dog that couldn't come out of them by himself. You must be terrified to leave him.
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Old 09-28-2008, 08:11 AM   #15
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I think I will go ahead and allow the Vet to start Winston on an anti-seizure medication. If it is his glucose causing it I don't think this will prevent them...I'll have his liver function checked regularly.
The thing that makes me believe it's not low blood sugar is that he gives no warning...you would think he would act differently if his glucose was going down too low...or maybe he just simply doesn't exhibit the lethargy that most people speak of. One minute he can be running around playing ball and in an instant he is down and seizing.
I pray each and every time I come home, after leaving him alone, that I find him happy and healthy. He is confined to the kitchen and I believe he spends most of his time alone sleeping...conserving energy/glucose.
Thanks again for all of your suggestions and concerns...I take it to heart. All I really want is what's best for my boy.
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