To Test Puppies Think About It

[Yorkieluv]

If it helps you guys to know this, I won't buy from a breeder who lets their pups go earlier than 12 weeks, and I know a lot of people who feel this way. I think it's great that you don't let your pups go earlier than that If buyers don't get it, then all you can do is try to educate them.

[NanaDtreasures]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

People fall in love with their puppies, and I don't think they should have to return a sick pup to get a replacement. I would much rather have a refund of some sort than to return my baby. In fact, I would never return my baby.

Ok..I have lots of friends on YT
And I dont know what they do.
I am just saying what I would do.
I have never had a puppy with a genetic defect.
Though Nalas little boy...one eyed Jack was born without an eye.
I love him and have too many dogs in my home already.
He was biggie boy and went to a dear friend who lives just a few miles away,,,so I'm close if any problems.
He was given to her for free.
I can say..and I dont know what everybody else does.
But I know how I love my dogs like they are my babies.
(I'm old...lol. so my kids are grown)
But I would never expect them to give the puppy back.
I would offer a partial refund to atleast have helped with the vet bills.
BUT thats just what I'd do...Everyone is different.
And I wanted to say thank you for sharing your story.
I'm glad you insisted on the test. You saved your baby.

[cesar49]

:t More Vaccine Info - Food For Thought

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I found this interesting site that offers some good vaccine info I haven't ran across before. http://www.angelfire.com/biz/froghol...accBlanco.html This is a subject I'm very interested in and the more research I do, the more I'm convinced we're doing much harm to our dogs and their future pups. I've also found that vaccines that are packaged in multi-dose vials have preservatives in them that can be harmful. Even if you do your own vaccinations, by law a vet must administer the rabies shot and this would be a vaccine that is packaged in multi-dose vials. Though it's just my own opinion, at this time I'm getting a gut feeling that many conditions (even some that are suspected to be genetic) that we see in dogs are the result of vaccines and/or over-vaccinations. On a related note, I was re-reading through The Joy of Breeding Your Own Show Dog by Ann Seranne and saw that she recommends giving a bitch a booster of DHL before breeding if she hasn't been vaccinated in the last 6 months. I don't agree with this at all. I'm not trying to slam MS. Seranne as the book has a copyright of 1980 and maybe at that time it seemed like a good idea. However, since this book is considered a must-have by many breeders, I wonder how many have followed this advice in the past and are we now seeing the results of this in the many health problems in some dogs. I'm not trying to 'stir the pot' with this post but it has got me wondering if these things are related. I realize there is no direct link yet proven or even a broad concensus; I'm just trying to connect the dots. I'd like to hear the thoughts on this from some of you on this subject.

humbup:

vaccinations can also be a cause

[KYBLUE]

[Tnyorkiemom]

Even if you do your own vaccinations, by law a vet must administer the rabies shot and this would be a vaccine that is packaged in multi-dose vials..

not trying to dispute your word but if it is a law then why can i go if i want to (and i know they sell it to anyone cause i asked when we were there last ) can i just go to any tractor supply company store and by the Rabies shots.....if it was law for a vet to admin...then wouldnt it be against the law to see the vaccine to just anyone????....just asking

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by Tnyorkiemom

Even if you do your own vaccinations, by law a vet must administer the rabies shot and this would be a vaccine that is packaged in multi-dose vials..

not trying to dispute your word but if it is a law then why can i go if i want to (and i know they sell it to anyone cause i asked when we were there last ) can i just go to any tractor supply company store and by the Rabies shots.....if it was law for a vet to admin...then wouldnt it be against the law to see the vaccine to just anyone????....just asking

---------------------------------------------------------------------------posted by woogie man-----

From what I've read, thymersol was used as a preservative in dog vaccines until 1992. Now aluminum is used. As I poster earlier, rabies is one vaccine we all have to get from a vet (to satisfy legal requirements) and that is a multi-dose vaccine which would have preservatives. Single dose vaccines do not require preservatives. Here's some other interesting info that may relate to vaccinations........" Procedure—The proportion of diagnoses of CPSS was calculated for all dogs and each breed recorded in the VMDB annually and for the 22.2-year period. Odds ratios and adjusted confidence intervals were calculated for breeds with at least 100 accessions by comparing odds of each breed with a diagnosis of CPSS with that of mixed-breed dogs.

Results—Congenital portosystemic shunts were reported in 0.18% of all dogs and 0.05% of mixedbreed dogs. The proportion of diagnoses of CPSS increased from 5 in 10,000 dogs in 1980 to 5 in 1,000 dogs in 2001. Yorkshire Terriers had the greatest total number of diagnoses of CPSS. Thirty-three breeds were significantly more likely to have a diagnosis of CPSS, compared with mixed-breed dogs. The greatest proportions of diagnoses were found in Havanese (3.2%), Yorkshire Terriers (2.9%), Maltese (1.6%), Dandie Dinmont Terriers (1.6%), and Pugs (1.3%)"..........How does this relate to vaccinations? Look at the extremely low incidence in LS in mixed breeds. Though you have to do a bit of assuming, It's probably safe to say that mixed breeds are less likely to have been vaccinated yearly though surely some are. Another glaring statistic is the increase in incidence from 1980 to 2001. This roughly correlates with the increased use of vaccines in general....in other words, more people are taking better care of their dogs, going to the vet and getting the 'annual vaccines' which has been the protocol during that time and still is for many vets. The highest percentage of LS mentioned is among toy breeds which are, in general, more sensitive to vaccines overall. Vaccines, by their nature, provoke an auto-immune response. Could not this constant provoking of the immune response over time create chromosonal damage that could cause conditions (especially in pups of over-vaccinated dogs) that appear to be genetic? In the case of LS, it is suspected to be genetic but no marker has yet been found. If you take generation after generation of dogs and over-vaccinate them, could not the cumulative effect of this show up as apparent 'genetic flaws' such as LS, heart murmers and arrhythmia, collapsed tracheas, etc. which are all essentially developmental problems. Like I posted before, I'm just trying to connect the dots. In the case of LS, as posted above from an article by Dr. Tobias, the increased incidence of LS goes hand in hand with the increased use of vaccines among dogs. Coincidence?

[cesar49]

Even if you do your own vaccinations, by law a vet must administer the rabies shot and this would be a vaccine that is packaged in multi-dose vials..


Even if you do your own vaccinations, by law a vet must administer the rabies shot and this would be a vaccine that is packaged in multi-dose vials..



Single dose rabies vaccines are available through Revival Animal Health but there are over 30 states that it cannot be sold to. The only other thing to do is ask your vet if he uses the single dose vaccine and, if not, could he get it for you. It seems like it's up to us, as individuals, to make sure to do what's best for our dogs as many vets cling to outdated protocols, primarily for business reasons. They get to cash in not only when they vaccinate a dog but also to treat the problems caused by them. I don't think they're sinister minded, just not thinking (well, maybe thinking about the bottom line). I worry as much about the long term effects of vaccines as I do the immediate reactions to them. As a breeder, I especially worry about the potential effects on puppies born to often vaccinated dogs.

[KYBLUE]

well i for one will be giving less vaccinations and asking for the singles does rabies

i have a friend who is certified to give rabies shots

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by KYBLUE

well i for one will be giving less vaccinations and asking for the singles does rabies

i have a friend who is certified to give rabies shots

ohio is one state where we can buy and give the rabies, but i will throw away the multidoses that i have..

what about the 6 in one types? i will have to read up on those before giving..

[Tnyorkiemom]

i know at the tractor supply store that i saw them they sold them in singles only...so i guess they have already taken care of the multi-dose thing

[TeddyandTiffy]

Rabies Shots here in Indiana MUST be given by a Vet & is required by Law. I just had Galahad to the Vet and he received the 3 YR Rabies...No Other SHOTS we're given to him by the Vet.

I choose to get him his Rabies Shot ONLY and I repeat ONLY because he is my NIPPER and I have a 2 year old Granddaughter that if Galahad was to bite, she would have to be taken to the ER and where would that put my Galahad??? Maybe taken from me...

I won't allow this to happen so in my own personal case I choose to let him recieve his Rabies Shot...Now on the other hand...My other 4 Yorkies are NOT nippers or nervous like Galahad so they will NOT recieve a Rabies Shot or any other Shots by the Vet...I did NOT know all that was written about the Shots here in these post BEFORE I let him get his Rabies Shot.

It's just hard to know what is right to do when you have a nipper like in my case and our State requires Dogs to have the Rabies Shot. As far as their other Shots they from NOW on will be given by ME or my Father. Lee

[Baron]

I am one that promotes the bile acid test, I tell anyone who asks me for information about purchasing a yorkie to insist on that being done before they purchase one. Having experienced getting a puppy and finding out it had liver shunt, I know the heart break, and the expense of it. I also test every single puppy I have, even though the parents have already been tested, and have never had a problem. Even my tinies are tested before they are sold. None of my puppies leave my home until they are 3 months or older. I have never even had any of my puppies appear to be stressed after the test, and yes, I do fast them. I have found that if I make my vet appoint. the first thing in the morning there does not seem to be a problem. That way, they are fed about 7 in the evening, and are at the vet's by 8 am, then they are fed right after the blood draw.

[Nancy1999]

When anyone has a personal experience so dramatic as losing a puppy to the test, or having a puppy with liver shunt, their opinions are going to be biased in that particular direction. That's why scientists do statistical testing on this sort of thing. With enough information they can say if the risks outweigh the value. They would have to determine how likely a death would occur through the testing procedure, and if the test results are truly valid in a puppy that young. Testing a puppy who shows no symptoms, and especially with parents who have been cleared seems like an unnecessary risk. I would much prefer a breeder thoroughly knowing the background of the pups, such as parents, grandparents, and so on, although it can still come up, the probabilities are much lower.

[yorkiekist]

I thought the test are inconclusive in very young puppies. Please let me know!

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Baron

I am one that promotes the bile acid test, I tell anyone who asks me for information about purchasing a yorkie to insist on that being done before they purchase one. Having experienced getting a puppy and finding out it had liver shunt, I know the heart break, and the expense of it. I also test every single puppy I have, even though the parents have already been tested, and have never had a problem. Even my tinies are tested before they are sold. None of my puppies leave my home until they are 3 months or older. I have never even had any of my puppies appear to be stressed after the test, and yes, I do fast them. I have found that if I make my vet appoint. the first thing in the morning there does not seem to be a problem. That way, they are fed about 7 in the evening, and are at the vet's by 8 am, then they are fed right after the blood draw.

Here again, it comes down to personal choice. If you feel it necessary to test yours then that is a personal choice. There is too much controversy about how accurate the BAT tests are if done at 12 weeks. To suggest that breeders put all puppies at risk by doing a procedure that is not proven to be accurate or necessary to me is not right. I have been raising yorkies for nearly 12 years and I have not had one single puppy buyer EVER ask me if I test my dogs for anything. I do not believe that BAT's is what the average puppy buyer wants or expects. They want a healthy puppy and a health guarantee that the breeder will stand behind. Even with the health guarantee, the majority of people in my area just give a standard 48 hour guarantee for the people to take the puppy to the vet. If and when I go to buy another show prospect it will not matter to me if the breeder had ran BAT tests or not but I would expect the breeder to be honest about any health problems that may exist in her lines and I would expect a good health guarantee.