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Old 06-02-2008, 05:13 PM   #1
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Default New Here/ Questions about sick puppy/Long winded

I have a new Yorkie named Ruby that will be 4 months old on June 10.
I have a male named Cash who is 8 years old. My other 2 females Mignon & Murphy lived to be 15 and I still haven't recovered from losing them.
We bought Ruby last month from a private breeder & I had a bad feeling but
couldn't stand to leave her. I asked her about Liver Shunt history & she didn't know what I was talking about. She is a larger Yorkie (after M & M no more small frail ones) on the way home she started coughing I called & breeder said she probably was coughing due to bath. I took her to my Vet the next day & she has Kennel Cough. (Had a sheet saying clean health from Breeders Vet- my vet said vet works with Kennels & can't be trusted).
Ruby is on 2nd round of Antibiotics finally getting rid of Cough. Ruby is high energy plays nonstop, eats great. This weekend I babysat my Nieces 2 Schnauzers and the 3 played nonstop. They left today & shortly after I fed Ruby & after eating she could hardly walk was wobbling like a drunk and had trouble holding her head up. I rushed to my Vet & he didn't want to give an injection-he gave her a large syringe full of solution my mouth. He said if it was Hypoglycemia she should be better by the time i get home but that she's
a little old to have it & he was thinking Liver Shunt. He said to buy Gerber Sweet Potato and force it if necessary and also Gerber Chicken & Turkey along with Puppy Food. She was so limp & lifeless. Came home & she ate 2 jars of Sweet potato on her own, her puppy food & later some Gerber chicken.
He said to call 1st thing AM. She's not as wobbly now but is sleeping like a rock. Usually she's bouncing off the wall harrassing Cash & Max (Wirehaired Terrier & 2 cats) I'm panicked that she has Liver issues. Has anyone experienced this kind of thing? No way I would return her but I would like to
ring that Woman's neck! Sorry for the long post I have been reading YK but
never posted on any site before & would appreciate any input. Husband & I are worried sick gonna be a long night.
Thanks
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Old 06-02-2008, 05:34 PM   #2
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wow what a roller coaster. My guess would be it is a combo of things... she was clearly very sick from the kennel cough... my Layla had it and it was very hard on her.. and to be on two rounds of antibiotics is hard on their bodies. Then two dogs came over and they played very hard... and it is probably a bit of hypoglycemia. Do you have Nutrical at home? or corn syrup or honey. that will work to quickly get things back up.. i'm sure you know to look at their gums to see if they are white. I woudln't assume liver issues just yet. I know it can be scary when they bring that word up... to me it just sounds like a bit too much for one litle girl! 4 months is NOT too young to have low sugar... there is no such thing.. it could happen to Layla tomorrow. she is 2 and 6 lbs. i would keep an eye on her tonight.. but since she has eaten i'd say her sugar should be fine I'd be staying away from the baby food now that she is eating.. it is very high in fat for our little guys. I'd for sure get the liver test done (bile acid test) but i think every yorkie shoudl have it done... but i'd expect normal results.. i'ms ure tomororw she will be back to normal.. she is probably EXHAUSTED from everything today. GOod luck and keep me posted!
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:03 PM   #3
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That makes me feel a lot better. The cough is about gone & she loves her cousins so much, my old guys don't play like she wants to. They got so rowdy this weekend. I tried to keep them calm but no way. It was so sudden & scary on the way to the Vet I was afraid she would crash.
From the time we got her even with the bad cough she is a ball of fire.
Nothing like my 3 other Yorkies. It is so unlike her to be out like this.
My other 2 girls were small no more than 4lbs & Ruby weighed 5lbs at 3 months. I hoped she would be super healthy. Cash is 7lbs & healthy aside from a few minor Pancreatitis attacks. I'm vigilant about their diet, no people food, carrots & apples for treats. I just took her out to potty & she's still
wobbly tho not as bad. If Hypogylcemia is the lesser of 2 evils I'll take it.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntSis View Post
That makes me feel a lot better. The cough is about gone & she loves her cousins so much, my old guys don't play like she wants to. They got so rowdy this weekend. I tried to keep them calm but no way. It was so sudden & scary on the way to the Vet I was afraid she would crash.
From the time we got her even with the bad cough she is a ball of fire.
Nothing like my 3 other Yorkies. It is so unlike her to be out like this.
My other 2 girls were small no more than 4lbs & Ruby weighed 5lbs at 3 months. I hoped she would be super healthy. Cash is 7lbs & healthy aside from a few minor Pancreatitis attacks. I'm vigilant about their diet, no people food, carrots & apples for treats. I just took her out to potty & she's still
wobbly tho not as bad. If Hypogylcemia is the lesser of 2 evils I'll take it.
keep checking her gums to make sure they are pink and not white.. if they are give her a bit of honey or something like that. if it is possible i'd keep an eye on her all night for that.
also i'd really encourage you to get the bile acid test. Layla is oging to have her first on october when she goes for her blood panel. however i'd wait until you are SURE she is back to normal as you have to fast them before the test. Let me know how she is before you go to bed.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:11 PM   #5
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Hmmm, I'm not sure what's going on here. Like Marci said - she is not too young for Hypoglycemia. But, after eating - I'm surprised you're still seeing such wobbliness - this is what I'm puzzled over. But, it's great that her appetite seems fine - that's really positive. So, she is still on the antiobiotics though and is still recovering from kennel cough?

If so, I would really consider those factors. Kennel cough is notorious for lingering around - and, antiobiotics can sometimes be tough on these little ones. So, maybe just see what happens over the next couple of days - and perhaps make her eat every 4-5 hours or so and see if that brings her around a bit too.

Hang in there.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:14 PM   #6
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Hmmm, I'm not sure what's going on here. Like Marci said - she is not too young for Hypoglycemia. But, after eating - I'm surprised you're still seeing such wobbliness - this is what I'm puzzled over. But, it's great that her appetite seems fine - that's really positive. So, she is still on the antiobiotics though and is still recovering from kennel cough?

If so, I would really consider those factors. Kennel cough is notorious for lingering around - and, antiobiotics can sometimes be tough on these little ones. So, maybe just see what happens over the next couple of days - and perhaps make her eat every 4-5 hours or so and see if that brings her around a bit too.

Hang in there.
good thoughts Ann. I was also confused by her being wobbly after eating but it sounds like she has a lot going on for being only 4 months. she probably thought she was well enough to play with her fun cousins and is now wishing she hadn't
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcerella02 View Post
wow what a roller coaster. My guess would be it is a combo of things... she was clearly very sick from the kennel cough... my Layla had it and it was very hard on her.. and to be on two rounds of antibiotics is hard on their bodies. Then two dogs came over and they played very hard... and it is probably a bit of hypoglycemia. Do you have Nutrical at home? or corn syrup or honey. that will work to quickly get things back up.. i'm sure you know to look at their gums to see if they are white. I woudln't assume liver issues just yet. I know it can be scary when they bring that word up... to me it just sounds like a bit too much for one litle girl! 4 months is NOT too young to have low sugar... there is no such thing.. it could happen to Layla tomorrow. she is 2 and 6 lbs. i would keep an eye on her tonight.. but since she has eaten i'd say her sugar should be fine I'd be staying away from the baby food now that she is eating.. it is very high in fat for our little guys. I'd for sure get the liver test done (bile acid test) but i think every yorkie shoudl have it done... but i'd expect normal results.. i'ms ure tomororw she will be back to normal.. she is probably EXHAUSTED from everything today. GOod luck and keep me posted!

Great advice! I agree with all of it. She is probably just pooped out......her little muscles are probably all rubbery, just like ours would be if we had run a mile after never doing it!
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:32 PM   #8
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So sorry to hear that your baby is so sick...I have a similar story about when I got my puppy almost 4 yrs ago.
He had an upper respiratory infection, coccidia, luxating patellas, and liver problems (which we did not know at the time).

Wobbliness and drunken-like behavior *after eating* is not hypoglycemia unfortunately...This is a symptom of liver problems. While your baby may also have problems with hypoglycemia, this disorientation after eating is not caused by that.

My suggestion to you is that you have a bile acid test run on her as soon as possible and a 12-hr fast is absolutely *not* necessary according to Dr. Center from Cornell University who invented the bile acid test and is one of the leading experts in liver issues.
If your vet has questions about that, I'm sure they could contact Dr. Center directly to get more info on it. The important thing is to have a paired sample. What they do is draw a little blood before a meal and then they feed the dog...2 hours later, they draw a little blood again. No fasting necessary.

Bile acid tests are relatively inexpensive ranging from $45-$100 depending on what vets in your area charge.

Until you get a diagnosis, it's important that you feed her small and frequent meals. Try to feed her just a little bit every couple of hours. If the problem is in the liver, this will help lighten the load on the liver. Also, this is important because dogs who have liver problems cannot store glucose properly and could have hypoglycemia.

I pray that your baby will be okay and that this is nothing serious.

I'll share with you a little bit about what I went through with Miko when he was a pup...

We got him when he was 12-13 weeks old and we took him to the vet because he started acting lethargic, he was a picky eater, and didn't seem right. The vet told us he had an upper respiratory infection, a serious case of coccidia, hypoglycemia, luxating patellas, etc.

He had some bouts of staring off into space and disorientation and abnormal tiredness. We had to take him to the E.R. on a few occassions. Drunken-like after meals, etc...Anyway, to make a VERY long story short, we found out that in fact he did and does have a liver problem. At first, all the vets were attributing it to hypoglycemia because the symptoms can mimic each other.
That's why it's important to have a bile acid test. While a blood panel is also very important, it won't show a problem in the liver until it's quite damaged, and a BAT is much more sensitive to liver function.

Please keep us updated on your puppy.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:38 PM   #9
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Here are some other symptoms to watch out for as far as the liver goes...Not all dogs display more than a couple of symptoms...
A stuperous look
Head pressing
Staggering
Listlessness
Runny nose
Blank look/stare
Lethargy
Drooling
Vomiting
Inappetance
Picky Eater
Pacing
Circling
Inability to sit still for any length of time
Drinking lots of water
Dark urine
UTIs
Crystals in urine
Smelly urine
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Old 06-02-2008, 07:24 PM   #10
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Update on Ruby

She was sleeping most of the evening, when I picked up her she was like a
little rag doll. But she ate her dry food and sweet potatoes. She wasn't
drinking a lot so I squirted some water w/Karo in a syringe & that really
seemed to perk her up. She went out & tinkled & wanted to explore her
dog yard & she seemed to be more with it. I have fed her little meals during the day since I got her. She doesn't like to eat alot at one time too busy
bouncing around. She picked up a toy and carried it around for a minute.
She is alot better than she was when we got home. I'll call Doc in the AM
& talk to him about the tests. I most certainly will do the bile test no matter what, better safe than sorry. I so appreciate all the feedback. These little critters are everything to my hubby & me. No kids, just our dogs & cats &
we can't stand for them to not be well. She's already tucked in bed with her
Daddy, at least just 3 tonight instead of 5.
Thanks
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Old 06-02-2008, 09:09 PM   #11
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Thanks for the update. Please let us know how she does and the results of the bile acid test. Those are the exact same symptoms my baby exhibited when he was a pup. The reason dogs that have compromised livers act disoriented after a meal sometimes is because protein turns to ammonia in the body which the liver is supposed to filter, but when the liver is not functioning properly, it obviously cannot filter the ammonia and the ammonia enters the bloodstream. This is the equivalent of having a poison/toxin in the blood. Anyway, the ammonia builds up and causes inappetance and eventually neurological symptoms like the disorientation which over time can become more serious.

Prayers for your baby girl!! Our furbabies are our babies too
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:54 AM   #12
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Animal Smiley 036 Update on Ruby

I talked to my Vet yesterday & told him Ruby was much better & he wants me to keep her on a low protein diet for several days. He said 2/3 Gerber
Sweet Potato & 1/3 Gerber Turkey or chicken. No dry. She eats every bit.
She was constantly hungry yesterday so I fed her every hour or so. she was back to normal activity, running, bouncing, walking on tiptoes around the coffee table to try to pull something off and chew it up. I put all the toys up because the Fox Terrier grabs one end and drags her all over the house & I don't want her to get over stimulated again. The Dr. hasn't explained what he has in mind after the baby food, it doesn't satisfy her hunger. There are only 2 Vets in Tahlequah so I will take her to Tulsa for tests. He hasn't discussed it with me yet. She never has had the soft puppy poop, has good bowel movements but now it's shiny and orange. I appreciate all the help you gave me.
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:10 AM   #13
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Maybe you could talk to your vet about giving her Natural Balance Vegetarian or Avoderm Vegetarian. If your baby is hungry, it means that she's probably not getting enough protein...Vegetable protein is easiest on their bodies if they are liver compromised...Maybe you could feed this for a few days instead of the baby food so that she's not hungry....
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:11 AM   #14
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I have no personal experience with liver shunt, but I'm wishing you the best. I know how hard it is when they get sick though.
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:33 AM   #15
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He advocates Science Diet & doesn't have any specialized food. I'm sure I can buy some in Tulsa. Reading through the different posts there are so many different views & varieties of food that I'm not sure what to get her if she has to stay low protein. Max the Wire haired Fox Terrier is borderline diabetic & it's under control with diet. He eats the Science Diet W/D and both he & Cash my male Yorkie are prone to Pancreas attacks so I'm vigilant about what they eat. No people food, no doggie bones, only vegetable & fruit & they think its special.
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