I wasn't asking her for the info for PROOF of what she was saying. I certainly believe her!! How silly....

I was just excited that we found a reproductive specialty office or group of doctors that had an opinion on the suject. After all, how long have we been looking??? I wanted to ask many more questions. I wanted to know why they make the "cut off" 5 lbs, and what about chihuahuas who are smaller than 5 lbs, etc. I am really curious about this and wanted to ask the questions I have, I wanted to ask about the "frame" rather than weight as a measurement and all sorts of things.

I don't even know why I am taking the time the expalin my reasons to you...I am so insulted by your attitude towards me.....

I am so sorry if anyone thought I was asking her for the info because I didn't believe her ...Even though now I guess that is why you were asking me....you admited this when you questioned the fact that the vet would say that people are prejudiced against tinies.

The fact is I have had contact with vets who breed tinies but only minimal contact by telephone and none of them were my persoanl vets. One did say that she has given up talking to people who are "prejudiced against tinies" because they are not worth it. She breeds tinies and does it safely and I talked to her again today but there is no way I am posting her contact info here now that I am aware of your true motivation...just to prove me wrong??? Not gonna do that to her and any of them.

"Why isn't someone's word good enough" These are your words in the same post where you question my veracity? The height of hypocracy....really....

But when you defend them and tell them they have a great breeding program...I'll have to go find that one...then you agree with what they are doing.

I could not defend someone that didn't share the same views and me on this subject of breeding tinies. No matter how unjustly they were "attacked".

Like I said before...you defend these breeders of tinies wholeheartedly but who speaks up for the tiny dogs? They have no voice and someone needs to protect them from these breeders that are doing it because they can charge a lot of money for the pups because they're "teacups" or tinies!

No one that breeds these tinies can say that they hope a standard will result. They breed tinies to get tinies and then it's not always a guarantee!

That is your choice. Mine is different.

I don't agree with all of your breeding practices but I would defend you if someone called you names or said you did't care abut your dogs just because you work outside of the home. I don't have to agree with your program to defend you against unwarranted attacks.

MY method of breeding practices? Just what do YOU know about my breeding practices, Kim? Please do tell! Inquiring minds want to know!

And you don't have to worry about defending me! I'm a big girl and I can defend myself. No one said anything bad about me working outside the home till YOU brought it up the other day and NO ONE was backing YOU up!

So once again I ask, what is it you know about my breeding practices and what is it you don't "approve" of?

Once again, I will defend and speak up for those that cannot do it themselves...whether it be dogs or children or the elderly.

I like the thread but actually I have know Idea.

Dr. Kahare is against it, as are most responisble vets. :)

Common sense would tell you that 5lbs is just a guideline.... you can have a 5lb dog with a 3lb frame... the dog was just fed more than it should of been and it is a little chunky. The 5lb guideline is for yorkies... this is a yorkie forum and yorkies is what we are talking about not chi's.

I don't know what your fasicination is over this.... any good reputable breeder takes their female to the vet and gets them evaluated, has tests done, and with the help from the vet decides from there if they should breed their dog.

PG13 is a guideline for the age that is appropriate for a show... some 11 yr olds may be more mature and their parents decide that they can watch a PG13 show... while some 15yr olds may not be mature enough and their parents decide that PG13 it too much for them to watch.

When breeding a dog, you have to take many things into consideration.... just because 5lbs is a good size for some yorkies... some may need to be too small at 6lbs.

You are supposed to be an attorney, so you should know there is always more than one thing to consider.... most things are not black and white.

A reputable breeder, spends the time and money to find out if they should breed a certian dog.... it is the unreputable breeder that breeds any dog, and charges more than an arm and a leg for a "tiny".... they don't care about the risks of the female or the pups, as long as it lines their pocket book.

Going on and on about this is silly- if you can't see that there is more to it than just weight or bone structure now, then you will never see it.

Why all this interest if you are not going to breed?

I try not judge peoples breeding practices, unless they are charging thousands for "tinies" because they breed a tiny.. because that is generally the "red flag" that they are unreputable and did not put the dog first.

No professional is going to convince you of any of this, because there have been many professional breeders trying to explain it to you and adding one more professsionals opinion isn't going to matter...

What My Vet Said
 

I haven't posted much in this thread because I don't want to be drawn into a debate. I firmly believe that a tiny dog (anything under 5 lbs) should not be used for breeding. I have owned 2 tiny female Yorkies and from my experience and observation, they're far too small to breed. But since I am not a breeder and have had no prior "real" experience (other than owning 2 tines), I decided out of sheer curiosity to call my vet and see what he said about it.

My vet said from his years of experience, a dog under 5 lbs is a major risk to breed. He said it depends on the frame on the dog too but if you have a 3 lb female with the frame of a 5 lb dog, it is still unsafe because the female is still ONLY 3 lbs. So if a 3 lb female has a wide pelvis, it is still unsafe to breed her because she is still only a mere 3 lbs. Now on the other hand, he said that if you have a 5 lb female with a narrow pelvis, she should not be bred either because there is a major risk for her too. He said the best size dog for breeding is 5 lbs and up and the dog should have a wide pelvis. He said there is a big difference in the stability of a 3 lb and 5 lb dog.

I have used this vet for years and so has my family. I trust his opinion and value what he says. I don't need further proof to support what I've always believed -- this is enough for me.

That is what I was trying to say, when I brought up a 5lb dog with a 3lb frame, but when reading back at what I said, I didn't finish my sentance... got sidetracked with kids getting ready for school.

I appreciate you replying and what you said is worth repeating, and keeping for future reference for those that need it.

Next time I am not going to reply until the kids are at school, and I can put all my attention to the reply.

Thank you for taking the time to call your vet also :)

My vet said: "Sure you can breed a tiny...as long as you want to schedule a c-section ahead of time and you know you run the risk of losing the bitch and the pups. I wouldn't recommend it or want to do it, well actually, I wouldn't do it...I wouldn't advise you to do it...that's not something I want to be a part of because I know how it will turn out...I've seen it." That's pretty much word for word what she said. And if anyone wants her name and address and phone number...just ask...I can give you her kids' names and numbers too if you want too. She is pretty avid on not taking any part in breeding tinies and doesn't want to be associated with it. My husband's word of advice: "Never argue with a woman who is capable of castrating a horse."

HAHA! I love it! :D

That means that you don't know them well enough to judge if they are caring with Common Sense.

Hmmmmm...

Me thinks it sounds like someone with unaltered tinies is interested in breeding (and charging outrageous amounts for them I'd venture!) and is trying to convince others (and possibly themself) that there is nothing wrong with it...

That is what me thinks! ;)

Disclaimer: This is just my humble opinion and directed at no particular individual.

....and I never said or implied even that I did. It was a statement of fact period. Why would "add on" stuff like that?

And Sherry Lynn~ If you want to hide behind that disclaimer, it has to be believable. The fact is that most members, new and old, know what you are implying, and I can only say that given your other unnecessary, off topic and insulting posts, we are ALL figuring out very quickly just who and what you are.

You are only hurting your own reputation with posts such as that imo.