No offense.... but I actually think you should clarify you are NOT a breeder while you look up your vets numbers - new people don't know this.......since you have by FAR the most posts on the subject...isn't it only right if that is said too ?

New people interested in Breeding have no way of knowing this in advance.

I talked to my vet about this...he advised 5 pounds or over . He also advises the males to be smaller than the female .

I have went back and looked and you didnt address it ratherr you are avoiding it. If you are so confident this vet knows what they are doing why not give his name?

Cause the vet needs a heads up on what to say maybe ? :) :) just kidding !!!

I dont believe there is a vet that beeds tinies that she knows. I think this is all fabrication.

The Joy of Breeding your own Showdog says...
 

I'm reading a book on breeding by Anne Seranne and she says to measure a female is ...."the distance from the anus to the vulva should measure 3 man's fingers, or approx. 2 1/2 inches. Space between the pelvic bones should measure 2 man's fingers or about 1 1/2 inches. These measurements are ample to permit the free passage of the head of a yorkie puppy to pass into the birth canal."

size
 

I have not bred a female under 4 pounds in 20 yrs...for the last 10 yrs they must have at least a 5 pound frame.. No one had to tell me not to do it..there was no internet forums 20 yrs ago, no vet had to tell me or another breeder..I saw how difficult it was for the female and decided to get bigger girls.
At that time I was very interested in breeding some good future stock..basically I wound up with more tinies..good for the pocketbook, not good for my goals.
When you turn a tiny girl on her back, you can see there is so little room from her heart to her pelvis.

When you talk about weight, you can not forget frame. Some are well into the acceptable weight range, but it is draped on a very delicate little 3 or 4 pound frame..not for me.
I remember a breeder who told me she had a 3 pound champion-sired Maltese stud (I had a girl then) I drove 2 hrs to VA to see a big, skinny boy. He had long legs and was actually bigger then my 5 pound female...but he did weigh 3 pounds.

There is another aspect of a c-section people forget about..scarring and adhesions later. They can be a big problem for a big Yorkie also...so I want to try and prevent a c-section to star with...Whispersmom and myself know a breeder who lost her female do to a precious section..adhesions blocked the birth canal and her died...so you have to watch for these things.

Ps...
 

Sidney..that is right!!
Most have a hard time getting a man to put his fingers back there..so I just spread my fingers slightly! LOL

No, you did not mention any names. And Kim, you are making the new breeder look foolish when they take to heart that you say it's okay...I'm sorry, when you defend other breeders that say it's okay. How many of these new breeders will have to suffer the heartbreak of something going wrong because they read somewhere where they asumed it was right? It's a shame when you yourself are not a breeder but use big words to impress the average person and make it seem like you know what you're talking about. No amount of reading will take the place of actually experiencing it. Same as having a human baby. You read and read but until you go through it yourself, you have NO idea...you're just speaking nonsense.

Pat, thank you for elaborating on the subject. And you're right, you can have a 3 lb dog on a 5 lb frame and vice versa. I too have seen such around here.

I am wondering this too? You have posted and given YT members other breeders names and numbers, asking us to call and talk to them ourselves, even stating you would fund anyone's trip to see them. What is so different now??

I'm sorry, Kim, but time after time you have mentioned the vets, breeders and theriogenologists you get your information from...these are some of your words -

"I know plenty of vets and theriogenologists for that matter who feel it is the same risk whether you are breeding a 3 lb female or a 5 lb female."

- and now you list two breeders but not their names, one of which you need to see if you can get the contact info. :confused: You are always asking people to back up their statements, but now when it comes to more than articles on the web we get nothing from you? Kathy gave her vets info without hesitation when you asked.

YorkieRose, thank you for all the great information you share with us. I learn so much from you.

Whenever I am in the Breeder Talk section and sometimes on other threads, I make the disclaimer that I am not a breeder. It is pretty clear from most of my posts especially if you read the entire thread that I am not a breeder!!

Again, I think you shpuld give the newbies a little more credit for figuring it out because they all do pretty quickly. I don't think anyone would mistake me for a breeder for very long....LOL.

And what do you mean that "I have the most posts on the subject?" What "subject are you referring to"? I don't think there is any subject that I have more posts on than you for example.

Erin~

The quote is actually "I know OF plenty of vets and theriogenologists...." I don't know any theriogenologists personally, yet, but I have posted this quote from one several times on here so I guess you guys didn't see it, or forgot about it.

Bill Sones and Rich Sones
Richmond.com
Saturday, October 15, 2005
Q. From a Spokane, Washington reader: Recently I have noticed a lot of media attention given to artificially inseminated mixed-breed dogs. If a very small dog like a teacup poodle is inseminated with a large breed dog like a St. Bernard, would the mother (1) abort (2) have one live birth puppy (3) have her life endangered?"

A. Generally not one and three, more likely two which may also include a litter of live births, says animal reproduction specialist Dr. Margaret V. Root Kustritz, University of Minnesota small animal theriogenologist (from the Greek therio = beast, gen = birth, ology = study of). "I get this question all the time. Dogs are plenty driven by urges to breed or be bred regardless of their mismatched sizes so artificial insemination might not even be necessary."

Once the female is pregnant, the puppies will grow to the size available to them, so even though it seems counterintuitive, a small female dog can carry pups from a giant breed male dog. Even where there is no size mismatch, says Kustritz, if a female dog has only one pup, it will grow to fill the space, thus becoming larger and more likely to cause dystocia (difficulty whelping) than would pups from a large litter.
I have spoken to many vets about the subject but a telephone conversation or even an in person conversation would mean that I know them personally.

I really don't understand the need for this anyway since we already have confirmation from several other members in this thread that their vets say that breeding tinies is possible if done under very specific circumstances by very experienced breeders only. A tiny is anything under 5 lbs and even two of Villette's vets said it might be okay as did YorkieRose (who recommended against it but still said it was possible) so why do you need more proof? Do you not believe them?

No, I copied and pasted it right from one of your posts...Poll:Is Breeding a 3 lb and under dog considered cruel? post #22. Maybe it was a typo? Maybe the way you word things confuses people? It seemed to me that you actually communicated with many of these people. It would help if you were more clear.

As for whether or not I would believe someone's vet or YorkieRose my answer is I will trust the person that has 10, 20, 30 years of experience over someone's opinions or hearsay. No offense that is just me.

In case you are interested. If I was looking for a puppy, I would look for a good sized female that is around 6 pounds with a smaller male around 4 pounds. That is my idea of a good breeding pair.

I can move on now. Enjoy your night.

Please Kim - do not twist my words to suit your opinions - I am against breeding tinies.... and yes in the past...have spoken to my vets Re: Breeding.... and they are ALSO Against breeding tinies - let's not try to swing that to suit your views....you knew exactly what I said yet you continue to use my name in your posts....I really appreciate it if you don't do that OK ?

I checked OPTION #1 in the Poll - DO NOT BREED THEM!

I love yorkies too much to accept what breeding a tiny can do to the mom and you just won't sway my opinion on the subject....I'm linking THIS Sad THREAD for any newcomers who are thinking of it - http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24166

I do have to wonder how someoneo can say she knows PLENTY of Vets & theriogenologists....I don't even know of ONE theriogenologist.....and have no reason to.

What do you do ....randomly call vets in your area so you can claim you know them ? Since you don't breed - how on earth do you claim to "Know" so many vets ? I can look in the phone book - call a vet and claim to "Know" them I guess - :confused: Is this how it works ?

I think we should be only using vets we have a PERSONAL Relationship with when we use their so called "opinions" and saying you make phone calls just doesn't offer a thing in this poll.