What does your vet say about...

[red98vett]

ps. Kim - I do post in many sections... but in the Breeding section - as a NON-BREEDER - you NEVER see me offering advice.

no advise offered because I don't breed. I leave that to the people that actually do it and know what they're talking about. If you need further proof (as you always seem to need when someone says something) - please see my posts - that has nothing to do with my opinion that it's risky and dangerous and downright cruel to breed a tiny ...but to me - these are totally different subjects.

[Yorksrule]

When you put a ridiculous statement like "No breed them all you want there's no risk" what kind of option is that. I would not touch it with a ten foot pole.

[toninm]

I know that it is not in the pups best interest and I wouldnt do it but I dont know what my vet thinks...I have a boy so I havent asked that question..lol

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by Yorksrule

When you put a ridiculous statement like "No breed them all you want there's no risk" what kind of option is that. I would not touch it with a ten foot pole.

That is your opinion. There are seriously some vets that have no opinion about the subject or treat yorkies as they would a large breed dog and that's why the option is there. In your case, answer yes or no. The people that have dealt with unknowledgable vets know which answer I'm talking about! GEESH!

[tmatherly]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

That is your opinion. There are seriously some vets that have no opinion about the subject or treat yorkies as they would a large breed dog and that's why the option is there. In your case, answer yes or no. The people that have dealt with unknowledgable vets know which answer I'm talking about! GEESH!

It's true! My (former) vet was that way. When I asked him if Pippa was too small for breeding, he looked at me like I had two heads and said "why not". Pippa weighed 3 lbs at the time. I think she weighs close to 4 lbs now. Because of the heartfelt pleas and knowledgeable breeder warnings not to breed little bitty girls, I had Scout fixed...first...LOL Pippa is next, right after Christmas. Which by the way...Scout was fixed on Friday, and Sunday I noticed some changes in Pippa's "area"..I think she's in heat...we did it just in time!

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by tmatherly

It's true! My (former) vet was that way. When I asked him if Pippa was too small for breeding, he looked at me like I had two heads and said "why not". Pippa weighed 3 lbs at the time. I think she weighs close to 4 lbs now. Because of the heartfelt pleas and knowledgeable breeder warnings not to breed little bitty girls, I had Scout fixed...first...LOL Pippa is next, right after Christmas. Which by the way...Scout was fixed on Friday, and Sunday I noticed some changes in Pippa's "area"..I think she's in heat...we did it just in time!

Thanks for sharing this. A vet I use to use had a tendency of answering questions with..."WEEELLLLL, I'M NOT QUITE SURE...BUT..." Got rid of him like a bad habit!

Sounds like you made a wise decision. Some breeders will always breed the smaller girls. Nothing you can do about that. It's just a shame that they haven't heeded warnings such as you have and it will take a catastrophy before their eyes will be opened.

Yuppers...you got him done right in time!

[minniemn]

Just popping in after a long break... and had to respond to this poll.

I am not a breeder, but did breed my girl once...

In looking for a stud, I called several people who had stud dogs... do you know what the first question was 9 out of 10 times? How big is your female? I would tell them, then they would say, good- I won't stud my dog to any dog under 5lbs, and didn't want to waste our time asking the rest of the questions if your girl was under 5 lbs.

I also, had an apt with the best reproductive vet in my state- a theriotologist (I know I hacked that word)... guess what they asked me right away... how big is the bitch- see they won't help/see a bitch for breeding if she is under 5 lbs (their speciality is small dogs, within their speciality of reproduction- does that make sense?) They also stated in an emergency they would help a person with a bitch under 5 lbs, but would have them agree to a spay then.... is it right or legal? I don't know, but that is how strong their beliefs are in NOT breeding yorkies under 5lbs.

They did go into some risks, but not much since it didn't apply to me, but they did point out that not only is the pregnancy hard on the small ones, but the birth is, but also their are increased risks after the birth, the small bitch doesn't have the resources a bigger bitch does for feeding, ect....

if you want more info on this reproductive vet, I will ask if I can give out their info to people who just want to call.... but they are very busy so it could take a few days.

I also had a regular vet... now if you don't believe me... you can check back to my first few posts here- where I stated I had both vets for the pregnancy and birth of my pups.

With all the people I have talked to, whos professions deal with breeding dogs, yorkies ect... every single one of them wanted to know the weight of my girl... because every single one of them said they would not touch a bitch under 5 lbs. During this time, at first I had no idea of this forum, and when I did find this forum, breeding tinies wasn't an issue, so I had no reason to find this info out, in fact I never asked if breeding tinies was ok- because I wasn't breeding a "tiny".

I know, I only have dealt with one reproductive vet- who specialize in small dogs, but I was comfortable with their advice, and would recomend them to anyone who is breeding. But they will not "help" with anyone who is breeding tinies, they don't believe in it- their first concern is the health and welfare of the bitch, and then the bitch and pups..... they are not going to put their reputation on the line to help those who are breeding unethically for financial gain.

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by minniemn

I also, had an apt with the best reproductive vet in my state- a theriotologist (I know I hacked that word)... guess what they asked me right away... how big is the bitch- see they won't help/see a bitch for breeding if she is under 5 lbs (their speciality is small dogs, within their speciality of reproduction- does that make sense?) They also stated in an emergency they would help a person with a bitch under 5 lbs, but would have them agree to a spay then.... is it right or legal? I don't know, but that is how strong their beliefs are in NOT breeding yorkies under 5lbs.

WOW! Where have you been this past week?????? We sure could have used you here! Glad to see you're back and doing well. I'm glad that you spoke to your reproductive specialist and that they agree that a bitch shouldn't be under 5 lbs!

This is what has been said about theriogenologist in the past....
"I found this specialist who explained that even a small female can have puppies from a large breed do because nature has designed it so that the puppies will only fill the space available in the uterus of the mother. "

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by minniemn

Just popping in after a long break... and had to respond to this poll.

I am not a breeder, but did breed my girl once...

In looking for a stud, I called several people who had stud dogs... do you know what the first question was 9 out of 10 times? How big is your female? I would tell them, then they would say, good- I won't stud my dog to any dog under 5lbs, and didn't want to waste our time asking the rest of the questions if your girl was under 5 lbs.

I also, had an apt with the best reproductive vet in my state- a theriotologist (I know I hacked that word)... guess what they asked me right away... how big is the bitch- see they won't help/see a bitch for breeding if she is under 5 lbs (their speciality is small dogs, within their speciality of reproduction- does that make sense?) They also stated in an emergency they would help a person with a bitch under 5 lbs, but would have them agree to a spay then.... is it right or legal? I don't know, but that is how strong their beliefs are in NOT breeding yorkies under 5lbs.

They did go into some risks, but not much since it didn't apply to me, but they did point out that not only is the pregnancy hard on the small ones, but the birth is, but also their are increased risks after the birth, the small bitch doesn't have the resources a bigger bitch does for feeding, ect....

if you want more info on this reproductive vet, I will ask if I can give out their info to people who just want to call.... but they are very busy so it could take a few days.

I also had a regular vet... now if you don't believe me... you can check back to my first few posts here- where I stated I had both vets for the pregnancy and birth of my pups.

With all the people I have talked to, whos professions deal with breeding dogs, yorkies ect... every single one of them wanted to know the weight of my girl... because every single one of them said they would not touch a bitch under 5 lbs. During this time, at first I had no idea of this forum, and when I did find this forum, breeding tinies wasn't an issue, so I had no reason to find this info out, in fact I never asked if breeding tinies was ok- because I wasn't breeding a "tiny".

I know, I only have dealt with one reproductive vet- who specialize in small dogs, but I was comfortable with their advice, and would recomend them to anyone who is breeding. But they will not "help" with anyone who is breeding tinies, they don't believe in it- their first concern is the health and welfare of the bitch, and then the bitch and pups..... they are not going to put their reputation on the line to help those who are breeding unethically for financial gain.

This whole post is awesome! I especially like the last paragraph.

[minniemn]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

WOW! Where have you been this past week?????? We sure could have used you here! Glad to see you're back and doing well. I'm glad that you spoke to your reproductive specialist and that they agree that a bitch shouldn't be under 5 lbs!

This is what has been said about theriogenologist in the past....
"I found this specialist who explained that even a small female can have puppies from a large breed do because nature has designed it so that the puppies will only fill the space available in the uterus of the mother. "

We had some major family problems for a few months- and then this last week I went to Vegas for my bday- hubbys bday and our anniversary that is all this month.

But I do have to disagree with your last paragraph, in talking with the reproductive vet, they also stated that although puppies will grow in the space they have (that is why many times a female with only one pup will need a c-section) but there is the chance the pups will outgrow the space and the uterus can rupture... (small female, small uterus and a few pups needing space to grow, if there isn't enough room, pups can be born deformed, dead, reabsorbed or they can rupture the uterus) there are a lot of genetics to take into consideration, and just having a smaller stud isn't going to gaurentee smaller pups.

Also, pups take up a lot of nutrients that the mother has stored, stored in muslces and fat.... anyone can figure that the smaller the mother, the less nutrients she has "stored" yes there are nutrients delivered to mom/pups with food ect also... but the reserves are also needed, also- the pups will get the nutrients before the mom, she will go without.... it is that way with human pregnancies also.... that is why pregnant human moms need prenatal vitamins... why sometimes when a human mom isn't taking care of herself her bones/ teeth change, because the fetus gets the nutrients first, no matter how bad the mom needs them.

Well I have yacked enough- I really shouldn't say anything, since breeding isn't my "profession" I just did it once, but because I was going to become a "breeder" I asked many questions, talked with the specialist ect... but we all know, most of the time, experience means more than research... and I don't have much experience at all.

***please excuse my spelling/grammer errors***

[txshopper73]

WOW! You've been pretty busy. Happy belated birthday!

That wasn't my own words but a quote from this thread...

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...1&page=1&pp=15

[JCarlson2004]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

When you turn a tiny girl on her back, you can see there is so little room from her heart to her pelvis.

YES YES YES!! I agree with you 100%. I know this from experience because my Katie was very tiny -- only 2.6 lbs. My new puppy, Tia, is going to be tiny too. I would never in a million years ever consider breeding them. Katie was spayed at 6 months and Tia will be too. I wll never subject my helpless Tia who depends solely on me and my decisions to a c-section.

[wnalegria]

Originally Posted by minniemn

Just popping in after a long break... and had to respond to this poll.

I am not a breeder, but did breed my girl once...

In looking for a stud, I called several people who had stud dogs... do you know what the first question was 9 out of 10 times? How big is your female? I would tell them, then they would say, good- I won't stud my dog to any dog under 5lbs, and didn't want to waste our time asking the rest of the questions if your girl was under 5 lbs.

I also, had an apt with the best reproductive vet in my state- a theriotologist (I know I hacked that word)... guess what they asked me right away... how big is the bitch- see they won't help/see a bitch for breeding if she is under 5 lbs (their speciality is small dogs, within their speciality of reproduction- does that make sense?) They also stated in an emergency they would help a person with a bitch under 5 lbs, but would have them agree to a spay then.... is it right or legal? I don't know, but that is how strong their beliefs are in NOT breeding yorkies under 5lbs.

They did go into some risks, but not much since it didn't apply to me, but they did point out that not only is the pregnancy hard on the small ones, but the birth is, but also their are increased risks after the birth, the small bitch doesn't have the resources a bigger bitch does for feeding, ect....

if you want more info on this reproductive vet, I will ask if I can give out their info to people who just want to call.... but they are very busy so it could take a few days.

I also had a regular vet... now if you don't believe me... you can check back to my first few posts here- where I stated I had both vets for the pregnancy and birth of my pups.




With all the people I have talked to, whos professions deal with breeding dogs, yorkies ect... every single one of them wanted to know the weight of my girl... because every single one of them said they would not touch a bitch under 5 lbs. During this time, at first I had no idea of this forum, and when I did find this forum, breeding tinies wasn't an issue, so I had no reason to find this info out, in fact I never asked if breeding tinies was ok- because I wasn't breeding a "tiny".

I know, I only have dealt with one reproductive vet- who specialize in small dogs, but I was comfortable with their advice, and would recomend them to anyone who is breeding. But they will not "help" with anyone who is breeding tinies, they don't believe in it- their first concern is the health and welfare of the bitch, and then the bitch and pups..... they are not going to put their reputation on the line to help those who are breeding unethically for financial gain.

Where have you been? You naughty girl- thank you so much for posting this.
We sure could have used information this in the past week and now we have it. Thank you , Thank you. Folks we need to find a way to save this post and bring it out for future refence when needed. No pixie dust today girls- Break out the Champange,Coke,Pepsi,Milk, or water (my disclaimer don't want to be accused of promoting drinking of Alcoholic beverages) Drinks are on the house. LOL
Thank you.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by minniemn

Just popping in after a long break... and had to respond to this poll.

I am not a breeder, but did breed my girl once...

In looking for a stud, I called several people who had stud dogs... do you know what the first question was 9 out of 10 times? How big is your female? I would tell them, then they would say, good- I won't stud my dog to any dog under 5lbs, and didn't want to waste our time asking the rest of the questions if your girl was under 5 lbs.

I also, had an apt with the best reproductive vet in my state- a theriotologist (I know I hacked that word)... guess what they asked me right away... how big is the bitch- see they won't help/see a bitch for breeding if she is under 5 lbs (their speciality is small dogs, within their speciality of reproduction- does that make sense?) They also stated in an emergency they would help a person with a bitch under 5 lbs, but would have them agree to a spay then.... is it right or legal? I don't know, but that is how strong their beliefs are in NOT breeding yorkies under 5lbs.

They did go into some risks, but not much since it didn't apply to me, but they did point out that not only is the pregnancy hard on the small ones, but the birth is, but also their are increased risks after the birth, the small bitch doesn't have the resources a bigger bitch does for feeding, ect....

if you want more info on this reproductive vet, I will ask if I can give out their info to people who just want to call.... but they are very busy so it could take a few days.

I also had a regular vet... now if you don't believe me... you can check back to my first few posts here- where I stated I had both vets for the pregnancy and birth of my pups.

With all the people I have talked to, whos professions deal with breeding dogs, yorkies ect... every single one of them wanted to know the weight of my girl... because every single one of them said they would not touch a bitch under 5 lbs. During this time, at first I had no idea of this forum, and when I did find this forum, breeding tinies wasn't an issue, so I had no reason to find this info out, in fact I never asked if breeding tinies was ok- because I wasn't breeding a "tiny".

I know, I only have dealt with one reproductive vet- who specialize in small dogs, but I was comfortable with their advice, and would recomend them to anyone who is breeding. But they will not "help" with anyone who is breeding tinies, they don't believe in it- their first concern is the health and welfare of the bitch, and then the bitch and pups..... they are not going to put their reputation on the line to help those who are breeding unethically for financial gain.

BRENDA I've missed you....and GREAT POST ...I really hope people read what you have to say because I think it's right on the money -

We've seen alot of fuss over 'theriogenologist's' lately and you just offered more valuable information to those wondering about them. My mind is more at ease over these 'reproductive specialists when I saw you say this :

'they will not "help" with anyone who is breeding tinies, they don't believe in it- their first concern is the health and welfare of the bitch, and then the bitch and pups..... they are not going to put their reputation on the line to help those who are breeding unethically for financial gain'

Thank you for sharing your ACTUAL EXPERIENCE with a theriogenologist....

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by minniemn

if you want more info on this reproductive vet, I will ask if I can give out their info to people who just want to call.... but they are very busy so it could take a few days.

Please do check since I'm sure there are a few people here that will be wanting to do their own "interview".