What does your vet say about...

[lynnt34]

Our Vets said no to under 4lbs....thought I should clarify this !

[CC's]

Are you defining a "tiny" as anything under 5 lbs? The fact is that most general vets do not have a lot of experience with breeding and whelping. The best professionals to ask would be the reproductive specialists, but since most people don' t have those then it will be interesting to see what th vets say.

From the responses I am hearing so far, it sounds like they are advising against breeding period regardless of size. It is important ask for the rationale for their opinion as well like, increased risk of c-section, smallness means they have less "reserves", smallness means there won't be room for the puppies, whatever.

The breed standard for chihuahuas is 2-6 lbs but they can be mush larger so is it okay to breed a 3 lb chihuahua? If the basic argument for not breeding a smaller yorkie is that smaller equals more rsk then is the ame true for chihuahuas which are slightly smaller than yorkies on average?


I know all this type of information has been posted before but one more time for people thinking about breeding "tiny" females.


I consider any female under 5 pounds to "tiny" for breeding. I use the 5 pounds as a general reference for non-breeders.

I actually measure the space in the pelvic bones. A 5 pound Yorkie with narrow hips I wouldn't breed. BUT I have never seen a 4 pound or under female with the pelvic width needed to free whelp safely IMO. Vets also go by pelvic bone width.
A breeder knows what this size should be.

Some breeders consider C-Sections almost routine and not a problem. I don't think so. I don't care what size a female is, if she can't free whelp she will be spayed.

I can honestly say up to this point I have never had to have any C-Sections and I don't breed over standard Yorkies. Not that something couldn't happen to cause a C-Section but I haven't had to have any. My females are 5.5-6.5 pounds. I routinely get small pups, so much so that I haven't had any females to keep for my own program.

There is an increased risk of C-Section, of Uterine Inertia, Rupture, extreme fatigue.

If every single Yorkie in the bloodlines for at least 5 generations, (all littermates as well in 5 generations) were free whelpers, under 4 pounds as adults, then maybe it would be safe. But I don't know one single line like that.

I think if you talk to responsible Chi breeders you will find they want their Dam's 4-6 pounds, and Chi's are the smallest breed.

When I find a specialist with Yorkie breeding experience and knowledge of the breed I'll ask them what they think.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by CC's

Are you defining a "tiny" as anything under 5 lbs? The fact is that most general vets do not have a lot of experience with breeding and whelping. The best professionals to ask would be the reproductive specialists, but since most people don' t have those then it will be interesting to see what th vets say.

From the responses I am hearing so far, it sounds like they are advising against breeding period regardless of size. It is important ask for the rationale for their opinion as well like, increased risk of c-section, smallness means they have less "reserves", smallness means there won't be room for the puppies, whatever.

The breed standard for chihuahuas is 2-6 lbs but they can be mush larger so is it okay to breed a 3 lb chihuahua? If the basic argument for not breeding a smaller yorkie is that smaller equals more rsk then is the ame true for chihuahuas which are slightly smaller than yorkies on average?


I know all this type of information has been posted before but one more time for people thinking about breeding "tiny" females.


I consider any female under 5 pounds to "tiny" for breeding. I use the 5 pounds as a general reference for non-breeders.

I actually measure the space in the pelvic bones. A 5 pound Yorkie with narrow hips I wouldn't breed. BUT I have never seen a 4 pound or under female with the pelvic width needed to free whelp safely IMO. Vets also go by pelvic bone width.
A breeder knows what this size should be.

Some breeders consider C-Sections almost routine and not a problem. I don't think so. I don't care what size a female is, if she can't free whelp she will be spayed.

I can honestly say up to this point I have never had to have any C-Sections and I don't breed over standard Yorkies. Not that something couldn't happen to cause a C-Section but I haven't had to have any. My females are 5.5-6.5 pounds. I routinely get small pups, so much so that I haven't had any females to keep for my own program.

There is an increased risk of C-Section, of Uterine Inertia, Rupture, extreme fatigue.

If every single Yorkie in the bloodlines for at least 5 generations, (all littermates as well in 5 generations) were free whelpers, under 4 pounds as adults, then maybe it would be safe. But I don't know one single line like that.

I think if you talk to responsible Chi breeders you will find they want their Dam's 4-6 pounds, and Chi's are the smallest breed.

When I find a specialist with Yorkie breeding experience and knowledge of the breed I'll ask them what they think.

Great info. How do you measure pelvic width and do regular vets do this or do you have to go to a specialist? Is it done with an x-ray? This is what I was told too. Thanks for the info on the chi as well. This all is making more sense now. I hope you find a specialist to ask. We have been searching for one.

I am not criticizing you Kimberley but there is no possible way to answer this poll unless you happen to fall into the first category because the "NO" category states that there is "NO" risk and there is always risk even when breeding a 6 lb female so no legitimate vet would say that. The last option was not a serious one.

[wnalegria]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

Are you defining a "tiny" as anything under 5 lbs? The fact is that most general vets do not have a lot of experience with breeding and whelping. The best professionals to ask would be the reproductive specialists, but since most people don' t have those then it will be interesting to see what th vets say.

From the responses I am hearing so far, it sounds like they are advising against breeding period regardless of size. It is important ask for the rationale for their opinion as well like, increased risk of c-section, smallness means they have less "reserves", smallness means there won't be room for the puppies, whatever.

The breed standard for chihuahuas is 2-6 lbs but they can be mush larger so is it okay to breed a 3 lb chihuahua? If the basic argument for not breeding a smaller yorkie is that smaller equals more rsk then is the ame true for chihuahuas which are slightly smaller than yorkies on average?

I am still waiting for you to give the names of these vet/breeders who supply you with all the information that you keep talking about. The burden is on your shoulders- you state that most geneeral vest do not have a lot of experience with breeding and whelping. You also state that they advize not to breed regardless of size- I don't see that in the posts on here. Where are you getting all this information that you are reporting- you keep stating facts but always under a un-named source.

[wnalegria]

What is needed is common sense and some folks just don't have any. It is shown daily with the posts that we see here on YT. Newbies will get used to seeing this-and will learn quickly those who just like to see themselves in print. No matter what the subject they are on the other side. They just want to argue. If you said this was YT they would argue and no. They just like to disagree.

It reminds me of a young child laying on the floor screaming cause things are not going their way. They have no real problem- they just want to be the center of attention and call the shots. When my eldest was young she tried this we walked away and ignored her. It worked-maybe we should walk away when this happens on the threads. Just ignore and let some argue with themselves- they will get the point. All we have been doing is reinforcing negative behavior.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

Great info. How do you measure pelvic width and do regular vets do this or do you have to go to a specialist? Is it done with an x-ray? This is what I was told too. Thanks for the info on the chi as well. This all is making more sense now. I hope you find a specialist to ask. We have been searching for one.

I am not criticizing you Kimberley but there is no possible way to answer this poll unless you happen to fall into the first category because the "NO" category states that there is "NO" risk and there is always risk even when breeding a 6 lb female so no legitimate vet would say that. The last option was not a serious one.

Kim ...SoCalyorkiLvr - I'm IN AWE of how far you will go for a debate- Threads start out fine... and then you twist peoples words to suit yourself and next thing we see is 10 pages of YOU posting the same things over and over. I'm so done here ...

I hope anyone NEW to this site will be able to sift thru the BS and see that MOST PEOPLE WHO LOVE YORKIES WOULD NEVER CONSIDER BREEDING A TINY.

[livingdustmops]

I hope anyone NEW to this site will be able to sift thru the BS and see that MOST PEOPLE WHO LOVE YORKIES WOULD NEVER CONSIDER BREEDING A TINY.

This is worth repeating!

[txshopper73]

Tiny is under 5 lbs.

[Diego]

My vet is very strict about the question of breeding . She told me that there are too many peoples that breed their dogs only for breeding .

[YorkieRose]

My opinion for what it is worth..you can breed some tines..by that I mean 3 to 4 pounds and not have any problems. I have had a number of 4 pounders produce nice 3 and 4 pup litters with no problems..but when it goes worng it is just a mess..and theworry and stress on the breeder is a killer. It is bad enough with a good size bitch, but they have more reserves to draw on.

It is a matter of averages..females do better with a few more pounds on them. The gestation is easier, whelping needs less vet intervention, nursing/caring for the litter is not as stressful to the body..so many things are just plain easier for a bigger girl.
With the tiny girls,after awhile you get tried of going to the vet at 2 am in rain, snow or dark of night!!!! the constant hands on for at least 4 weeks with nursing pups is a must. It is a worry to get enough food in the them to nurse the litter, they lose weight and turn into a bag of bones..I can not take that aspect of it. It just plain wears them out so early.
It wears out a 6 or8 pounder, but they recover so much faster, mine stay fat while nursing and rebound fast.

I founf it to the benefit of my Yorkies and myself not to breed under a 5 pound frame..weight is not a factor like frame for me. I have seen many 3 pound frames carrying 5 pounds...many 5 pound frames carrying 4.

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

My opinion for what it is worth..you can breed some tines..by that I mean 3 to 4 pounds and not have any problems. I have had a number of 4 pounders produce nice 3 and 4 pup litters with no problems..but when it goes worng it is just a mess..and theworry and stress on the breeder is a killer. It is bad enough with a good size bitch, but they have more reserves to draw on.

It is a matter of averages..females do better with a few more pounds on them. The gestation is easier, whelping needs less vet intervention, nursing/caring for the litter is not as stressful to the body..so many things are just plain easier for a bigger girl.
With the tiny girls,after awhile you get tried of going to the vet at 2 am in rain, snow or dark of night!!!! the constant hands on for at least 4 weeks with nursing pups is a must. It is a worry to get enough food in the them to nurse the litter, they lose weight and turn into a bag of bones..I can not take that aspect of it. It just plain wears them out so early.
It wears out a 6 or8 pounder, but they recover so much faster, mine stay fat while nursing and rebound fast.

I founf it to the benefit of my Yorkies and myself not to breed under a 5 pound frame..weight is not a factor like frame for me. I have seen many 3 pound frames carrying 5 pounds...many 5 pound frames carrying 4.

Thanks, Pat. Do you still breed tinies or have the problems you've had in the past discouraged you from continuing in that program?

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

My opinion for what it is worth..you can breed some tines..by that I mean 3 to 4 pounds and not have any problems.

..weight is not a factor like frame for me. I have seen many 3 pound frames carrying 5 pounds...many 5 pound frames carrying 4.

This is such a good point and one I have mentioned more than once when we discuss weight. I always wonder why we don't use height and length and maybe width in a breeding situation, rather than weight. WE are always talking about weight instead of frame and frame would be more accurate.

If under 5 lbs is the definition of a tiny then I think it is safe to say that we have learned that it may be POSSIBLE to breed a tiny female under very limited and specifics circumstances. She has to have the right frame and the right pelvic width, she has to be bred to a smaller male and both dam and sires hereditary backgrounds should be all smaller yorkie to lessen the chance of a "throwback" or larger puppy. She also has to be sturdy, not frail and be a good eater as well as excellent health which goes without saying really and last, but certainly not least, she needs to be under the constant care of an experienced breeder and vet, hopefully a reproduction specialist.

This is logical and easily understandable by most people.

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by wnalegria

I am still waiting for you to give the names of these vet/breeders who supply you with all the information that you keep talking about...

well??????? Why not give the names and numbers so that some of us may contact them ourselves??? You've been asked this several times but have avoided the question. Names and numbers of vets, please.

[suz]

Villette - I agree with you. There comes a time for everyone to speak their minds, and a time to stop!

Kim - I agree with you too about the size part. I've seen Yorkies weighing less than 5 pounds, yet structurally bigger than most Yorkies weighing 5-6 pounds. I don't think that a females WEIGHT should be the only thing to consider when deciding on breeding! It should be their overall size. And even that sometimes is questionable. I'm sure you've seen some really tiny females (physically) that are just about 5 pounds, and some larger females that don't weigh more than 4 pounds. So I think you are right in making the determination on structure, rather than on weight. IMO

I too am curious to know how to measure the pelvic size only without doing x-rays. I have very mixed feelings about x-rays, which I won't go into.

Suz

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

well??????? Why not give the names and numbers so that some of us may contact them ourselves??? You've been asked this several times but have avoided the question. Names and numbers of vets, please.

If you read my posts on the thread where this was first asked which is now closed you will see that I have in fact addressed it several times so those on here who are badgering me about it are not being at all truthful and are only making themselves look foolish.