Rover vs Biker

[yorkietalkjilly]

I was reading about this very subject as while back after I saw something that worried me. Poked around the net and read some sites and saw what bikers thought. If I were a biker I'd be worried about carrying in case of a crash and the firearm going off into my body or digging into ribs, etc., coming out, and my $1000 weapon bouncing like a ball down the road, etc., as I and/or the gun hit, roll over and over, with no small amount of force. Savvy bikers usually know carrying anything hard and substantial on their body becomes a weapon against them in the damage it can do after the body hits the ground atop it repeatedly. And boy, if you are riding down the road, fumbling with a saddle or tank holster, draw and really try to successfully operate a weapon, you are not much in control of your bike. I'd be pretty scared to carry and operate a big bike but some of them are such risk-takers, they do carry. Still, the guy in the vehicle will always have the upper hand as he can by far better control his car, drive, duck and point all with a lot less imminent danger than the exposed, carrying biker who might just go careening off the road if he loses only a momentary bit of control fiddling for or with a gun. Even if the car driver is momentarily stopped and has a gun he's going to have a big advantage against some exposed bikers, can shoot, duck and floor it.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Has anyone ever seen a gang of bikers like this go do their group rides, stunts, slow-downs or show out in really, really awful, scary, dangerous parts of town where the gangs and dealers live and operate and police steer clear of? In Dallas, group bikers stick to the tollroads and places like that where the suits in Jags and BMW's travel to and fro and stay as far away as they can from certain neighborhoods. Where these bikers choose to show out says all you need to know about them.

[celstu1]

This happened in NYC but the guys are from Lawrence, MA. I live near there... Ive never seen them, but my mom had a brush with them over the summer on the highway coming back from Boston. There were 3 of them and they were pacing the highway to slow it down and then taking off at 100mph, then slowing down, pacing the highway and taking off at 100mph, they did this repeatedly. She said it was scary to watch! This gang is a bunch of idiots. I went on a tear on fb after this happened and heard the family of the run over biker might be bringing up a lawsuit against the SUV driver. With all the national attention this is creating, I'm afraid the gov will micro-manage us 'riders' (yes I ride). Another freedom taken away and it's only to protect us from 'ourselves'. Imagine people being so idiotic as to having to be told not to terrorize other drivers, for no reason? ARG I really hate people sometimes! We've become such a numb society that people are getting their kicks by putting others in danger. Then they will be the first to scream 'unfair' when laws do happen to prevent this kind of crap!

[Magnus]

Yorkytalkjilly: What you explained about riders carrying guns made totally sense and for a min, I thought "I guess they wouldn't be carrying if it's that dangerous..." But then... I realized. Most of the riders on that video didn't seem to either care or don't understand much about keeping safe. The only piece of safety gear I saw on them were helmets... If I were to take a guess, I'd say it's more to hide their face then to be safe. Cruz was stupid enough to cut in front of the rover and break check so...

Celstu1: Do you ride a cruiser or a sport bike? I've don't think ALL riders are bad whether s/he rides a cruiser or sport bike. But I have to admit, I've never encountered a cruiser that drove recklessly before while I have with sport bike riders... I've always wanted to ride a bike. It's really too bad.. the bad apples will make things so hard for the good ones that actually follow the law.

[Magnus]

I just read an article where Allred is saying that Mieses got off the bike to try to defuse the situation. I guess that's more believable defense than "he got off the bike to help his buddy that got rammed by the car".

The lawyer must have actually watched the video and saw that Cruz never fell to the ground from the bump.

Also, I wonder if she's doing this pro bono... I know the Mieses's families been getting donations but honestly, I don't think it'd be nearly enough to cover such a high profile lawyer.

Gloria Allred: Injured biker was 'innocent victim' in clash with SUV - U.S. News

[celstu1]

Originally Posted by Magnus

Yorkytalkjilly: What you explained about riders carrying guns made totally sense and for a min, I thought "I guess they wouldn't be carrying if it's that dangerous..." But then... I realized. Most of the riders on that video didn't seem to either care or don't understand much about keeping safe. The only piece of safety gear I saw on them were helmets... If I were to take a guess, I'd say it's more to hide their face then to be safe. Cruz was stupid enough to cut in front of the rover and break check so...

Celstu1: Do you ride a cruiser or a sport bike? I've don't think ALL riders are bad whether s/he rides a cruiser or sport bike. But I have to admit, I've never encountered a cruiser that drove recklessly before while I have with sport bike riders... I've always wanted to ride a bike. It's really too bad.. the bad apples will make things so hard for the good ones that actually follow the law.

Cruiser!!!! Heck no sport bikes for me. You get laughed out of NH on a sports bike! LOL It's a big cruiser country up here!

[celstu1]

Originally Posted by Magnus

I just read an article where Allred is saying that Mieses got off the bike to try to defuse the situation. I guess that's more believable defense than "he got off the bike to help his buddy that got rammed by the car".

The lawyer must have actually watched the video and saw that Cruz never fell to the ground from the bump.

Also, I wonder if she's doing this pro bono... I know the Mieses's families been getting donations but honestly, I don't think it'd be nearly enough to cover such a high profile lawyer.

Gloria Allred: Injured biker was 'innocent victim' in clash with SUV - U.S. News

Its all just stupid. Lien was not targeting Meises. He was just there and Lien was protecting his family, when his tires were getting slashed, he took off with no thought of who was where. Can't blame him. I also have compassion for the guy who got run over. I mean who are we as human beings if you don't feel some sort of remorse for a life cut short or a person maimed? We are not savages, we are humans with abilities to feel compassion for others. What that 'gang' as a whole did was utterly stupid. However that 1 guy did not 'deserve' to get run over anymore than any other guy there. I feel for Lien and Meises.... not enough to donate to either side though! I hope they all lose their licenses. Catching 1 in a bunch with no license is hard, but catching the whole bunch with no licenses I think is a lot easier!

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Magnus

Yorkytalkjilly: What you explained about riders carrying guns made totally sense and for a min, I thought "I guess they wouldn't be carrying if it's that dangerous..." But then... I realized. Most of the riders on that video didn't seem to either care or don't understand much about keeping safe. The only piece of safety gear I saw on them were helmets... If I were to take a guess, I'd say it's more to hide their face then to be safe. Cruz was stupid enough to cut in front of the rover and break check so...

Celstu1: Do you ride a cruiser or a sport bike? I've don't think ALL riders are bad whether s/he rides a cruiser or sport bike. But I have to admit, I've never encountered a cruiser that drove recklessly before while I have with sport bike riders... I've always wanted to ride a bike. It's really too bad.. the bad apples will make things so hard for the good ones that actually follow the law.

Haha, well I didn't say bikers wouldn't carry - I did confine my comments of why "savvy" bikers know implying they probably wouldn't and surmised what I would be worried about if I were a biker thinking of carrying and as I did say, bikers can be risk-takers, some do carry. But from what I read, long-time bikers who've ridden longer than some others have lived have had enough really bad tumbles to know that hard objects carried on the body reek havoc on flesh, muscle and bone in a crash with all the high-speed bumping, bouncing and rolling over and over for yards and yards that ensues. I did get the impression that these days many do carry a gun hidden away somewhere on the bike itself but that it's not readily accessible during the ride for fear it will bounce out and be lost during a bumpy ride or wipeout.

And they have their own terms for crashes and names for certain kinds of bruises, bone breaks. One thing I thought was morbidly funny on a couple sites was that the biker's say EMT's/police call motorcycles "donor cycles".

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Magnus

I just read an article where Allred is saying that Mieses got off the bike to try to defuse the situation. I guess that's more believable defense than "he got off the bike to help his buddy that got rammed by the car".

The lawyer must have actually watched the video and saw that Cruz never fell to the ground from the bump.

Also, I wonder if she's doing this pro bono... I know the Mieses's families been getting donations but honestly, I don't think it'd be nearly enough to cover such a high profile lawyer.

Gloria Allred: Injured biker was 'innocent victim' in clash with SUV - U.S. News

Even if Mieses wasn't performing threatening actions there in front of that SUV, he was part of a looming gang on roaring machines that as a whole were menacing and terrifying that driver, his family and the driver likely had no time or inclination to study what any one guy was going at any given moment. He just floored it and tried to get away.

Allred was talking about how her client wasn't doing anything bad just prior to being run over. How in the world could that driver, husband and dad be expected, in that moment when his wife and child were at risk in his mind and to most viewers of the video, to try to assess whether all of the guys hemming him in ON A HIGHWAY, where it's usually illegal to slow down or stop, were behaving like choirboys or not? In his mind I'm sure all he could see was a mob closing in and see angry faces, hear roaring engines and his wife and kid screaming.

[Magnus]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Haha, well I didn't say bikers wouldn't carry - I did confine my comments of why "savvy" bikers know implying they probably wouldn't and surmised what I would be worried about if I were a biker thinking of carrying and as I did say, bikers can be risk-takers, some do carry. But from what I read, long-time bikers who've ridden longer than some others have lived have had enough really bad tumbles to know that hard objects carried on the body reek havoc on flesh, muscle and bone in a crash with all the high-speed bumping, bouncing and rolling over and over for yards and yards that ensues. I did get the impression that these days many do carry a gun hidden away somewhere on the bike itself but that it's not readily accessible during the ride for fear it will bounce out and be lost during a bumpy ride or wipeout.

And they have their own terms for crashes and names for certain kinds of bruises, bone breaks. One thing I thought was morbidly funny on a couple sites was that the biker's say EMT's/police call motorcycles "donor cycles".

Oh I totally get what you were saying. You pointed out something I never considered so I was trying to think in those bikers boots so to speak. If that makes sense. But the problem was that no matter how hard I try to be in their boots, I can't. Like you, me, and many others, we wouldn't purposely go breaking laws for the sake of our own entertainment. Further more, put others in harms way.

I also saw similar comments in reference to "donor cycles". It's.. pretty sad that these type of bikers would earn nicknames as such...

[Magnus]

Originally Posted by celstu1

Its all just stupid. Lien was not targeting Meises. He was just there and Lien was protecting his family, when his tires were getting slashed, he took off with no thought of who was where. Can't blame him. I also have compassion for the guy who got run over. I mean who are we as human beings if you don't feel some sort of remorse for a life cut short or a person maimed? We are not savages, we are humans with abilities to feel compassion for others. What that 'gang' as a whole did was utterly stupid. However that 1 guy did not 'deserve' to get run over anymore than any other guy there. I feel for Lien and Meises.... not enough to donate to either side though! I hope they all lose their licenses. Catching 1 in a bunch with no license is hard, but catching the whole bunch with no licenses I think is a lot easier!

I think that's the problem for me... Not being able to feel much/any sympathy for Meises. I definitely do for his kids but less for his parents, aunt, & wife. I can understand their pain and suffering seeing a loved one like that. However, for them to point their fingers at Lien and Meises the victim. Not even acknowledging the wrong doing on his part, I think that's just wrong on so many levels.

Salt to injury, Meises's father being a pastor. For me personally, I'm very disappointed that a family of what I would consider a "devoted christian" would do that. If they just said something like "we understand he shouldn't have been part of that group but he's not a evil person like everyone's making him out to be." It feels as if they're one of those "do as I say, not as I do" type of "christian leaders" and I just can't respect that type of people.

I do agree on what you say about just 1 guy not deserving it any more than others that were there. This whole incident is just really sad and unfortunate. I'm bit surprised that no one actually died. I hope Meises does recover, learned his lesson, and use himself as an example to show other "bikers" not to drive their motorcycles reckless or get involved in events like those.

[DBlain]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Even if Mieses wasn't performing threatening actions there in front of that SUV, he was part of a looming gang on roaring machines that as a whole were menacing and terrifying that driver, his family and the driver likely had no time or inclination to study what any one guy was going at any given moment. He just floored it and tried to get away.

Allred was talking about how her client wasn't doing anything bad just prior to being run over. How in the world could that driver, husband and dad be expected, in that moment when his wife and child were at risk in his mind and to most viewers of the video, to try to assess whether all of the guys hemming him in ON A HIGHWAY, where it's usually illegal to slow down or stop, were behaving like choirboys or not? In his mind I'm sure all he could see was a mob closing in and see angry faces, hear roaring engines and his wife and kid screaming.

I guess she must have forgotten that he had NO drivers license and did not have one since about 1999. But he still choose to drive and drive and drive and rack up multiple arrests. Sound's like someone that does not mind breaking the law

[Magnus]

Originally Posted by DBlain

I guess she must have forgotten that he had NO drivers license and did not have one since about 1999. But he still choose to drive and drive and drive and rack up multiple arrests. Sound's like someone that does not mind breaking the law

According to her, that's irrelevant. I'm curious though. First the wife said Mieses got off the bike to help a fallen buddy. Now the story changed to "he got off the bike to defuse the situation". If that's true, aren't they validating that Lien had a valid reason to make a run for it?

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Magnus

According to her, that's irrelevant. I'm curious though. First the wife said Mieses got off the bike to help a fallen buddy. Now the story changed to "he got off the bike to defuse the situation". If that's true, aren't they validating that Lien had a valid reason to make a run for it?

And even if he did get off his back and sprout wings, that driver was busy being threatened by roaring motorcycles, angry men surrounding him and advancing on him, he's panicking and fears for his wife and little child and he's supposed to suddenly notice that ONE guy in that melee has now turned into a do-gooder and has a smile on his face?

So what if that one guy was not adding to the threat, the other guys in his group were pressing in, furthering the threat and the driver and his family were being terrorized and still needed to bolt. If that one guy had gone saint that moment despite his long history of law-breaking, how could that driver be expected to know it in that frightening, potentially life-threatening moment? But for that guy that older guy that stepped in, they could have beaten that man to death. Plus, that older guy that intervened said that gang had even opened the poor wife's door and tried to drag her out but were stopped!!!!!!!!!! From the news coverage, it sounds as if biker gang rides are getting ever more dangerous when you see them taking up the whole highway. I think the taking over the road, riding abreast in all lanes, slowing down and doing teenage bike tricks are what anger people to start with and then the bikers begin to gang up and threaten. That's when car/truck drivers get crazy. It's very serious.

Still, I think those mean mob bikers out to go ride in the worst parts of town where the toughest of the tough gang lords and their gang members live and show off their macho all they want there.

[normarae63]

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