I am ANGRY

[kjc]

Originally Posted by cally930

I was very intrigued on first reading your post, and by the end, felt very ill to my stomach.

You just want to grab your kids and keep them close.

So sad.................

Thanks... I started this list in high school, early seventies... surprised I remembered so much of it... I do slip occasionally but I try really hard to stick with it bc I feel that stuff is important. And I'm open for change too on some things, and still undecided on others.

Actually, it was a couple that was arrested... they were planning to have a baby for the @%$&^* to have sex with! Sorry, I know that just made you even sicker....

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Reese1

So will everyone still shop at Borders & Barnes & Nobles?

NOPE! I discussed this with my husband last night and he has, in the past, been an active customer of both (especially Barnes & Noble). He is with me on this and we will not purchase from them! It's not okay to support a company that sells this type of filth!!

[Wylie's Mom]

Call me a total cynic - but there is a part of me that wonders if Amazon did this, knowing the publicity they would get from it. Look at the free mention Amazon received ALL OVER the internet and the media.

I mean, Amazon full well knows this had nothing to with a 1st Amendment Rights violation. For them (or anyone) to claim a 1st Amendment violation - it would have had to include the Government saying "it is against the law to publish or sell this book". That didn't happen.

Amazon can choose what they want to sell or don't want to sell. They are a business and are fully in charge of that choice. And they made the very conscious choice to ALLOW this book to be sold on their site.

It may be not be against the law to sell/publish this repulsive piece of trash, but people are free to speak up about it - and they/we did. People took action and used their voice. At least Amazon listened, but I can see why they'd permanently lose customers. I would really like to know their true motivation for putting this book on their site.

Btw, they also sell (or, used to sell) instructional books about dog fighting .

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by kjc

I don't buy from pet stores that sell animals.

I don't buy cosmetics from companies that test their products on animals.

I don't buy jeans or shoes or clothing from companies that use child labor.

I don't buy coffee or coconut oil from companies whose farming practices destroy the environment.

I don't buy products that contain anything that comes from whales.

I am trying my best to stay out of WalMart because I don't like the way they compensate their employees, and the horrible effect their huge stores have on the surrounding businesses.

I don't watch or support Major League Baseball anymore because of the steroid controversy.

I have lost all respect for Michael Phelps because he was/is stupid enough to smoke marijuana, and I do not buy products from companies that endorse him.

I pay extra for my electricity to make green energy available to the 'grid'.

I recycle, I don't litter, I pick up other people's litter.

I won't buy from Amazon, Barnes & Nobles, nor Borders anymore, because they sell books that may cause more children to be sexually abused, and offers books that cater to Holocaust deniers and other hate groups, as well as graphic dog fighting and cock fighting videos.

Yes, people need to be allowed to make choices, but, to me, that's like having an AA Meeting in a bar. And it doesn't specify ages, just 'children'. I may be oversensitive because an arrest was made in my neighborhood just last week of some animal that chose to have sex with an infant...
How many children do we sacrifice before we say 'Enough' and stop allowing people who think with their genitals instead of their 'brains' to make decisions that have definite negative impacts on innocent children and babies?

I want to live my life like this. I may make mistakes from time to time and not be as environmentally conscious as I should, but this is my goal too. I think if we all start being more aware of what we are supporting or tacitly approving when we make a purchase, we CAN make a difference in the direction the human race is taking. The majority needs to find its voice and use it.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by nana911

Sadly, Amazon is just the end outlet for the product. The business of purchasing, advertising, producing etc... is so interwoven with so many businesses involved that Amazon is not the only business that is responsible for selling this particular item. They are standing by freedom of speech and freedom of choice. Some will choose to no longer buy from Amazon and that is their right. Some can simply choose to not buy this particular product and that is their right. Some can choose to track down every particular business that Amazon is affiliated with and not do business with any of them and that is their right. I choose to continue to purchase from Amazon but not this particular product. No different than renting videos from Netflix but not renting from their vast collection of available hard core porn.

I've always had a theory. In the Garden of Eden God put a tree called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. He told Adam and Eve that they could eat the fruit from any tree in the garden except that tree. That tree they were not to touch. Of course, they were tempted, they ate from that tree and here we are. I believe that were we to have that warning today, there is a faction of people that would bulldoze the tree down, build a wall around the tree, do whatever it would take to make the tree and fruit totally inaccessible to anyone. Their solution would be to remove the option completely. Obviously that was not God's reasoning. He put the tree there for anybody to be able to access with nothing but a warning for a reason. He wants us to exercise choice. In order to exercise choice we have to have options available. Gotta take the bad with the good. Just my theory.

Actually there was just the 3 involved -- the author, the publisher, and Amazon. I think the others you are talking about are all employees of these. This book does not have its own advertising agency or a huge marketing firm behind it. Just the author and the book's publisher who then got it listed by Amazon. In fact, some of the books at issue, are self published pieces of filth. I think in your analogy the children would be the tree -- not this book. I am sure for the pedophiles, temptation is ever present with children around the world. The book is not the temptation itself -- it is the evil encouraging the abuse/assault on children, pushing those with sickness to act upon the urges they have. It is praying on children, but also those who are truly SICK. I think most of the ones with this sickness try to contain it. But when so many are trying to tell them it is okay, go ahead, act on your vile thoughts....it can be the very thing that causes a child to be assaulted. So, I don't quite go along with your analogy. I think we need to stop some things. Books like this should be against the law because they are promoting an illegal act of the most horrific consequence.

But -- everyone has to make their own conscious decision about this and what is right for me may not be right for you. I think those who do believe strongly against this owe it to the children, to do what they can to stop it. Whether that is letters to the companies or a boycott, we have to do something, other than to stand by and tacitly approve of it. JMO....

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I think if we all start being more aware of what we are supporting or tacitly approving when we make a purchase, we CAN make a difference in the direction the human race is taking. The majority needs to find its voice and use it.

Over the last few years, I think people are feeling increasingly helpless and frustrated...and that their voice just doesn't matter (ie, in the government, the mortgage crash, our food supply, the bank/Wall St crash, and on and on and on).

At least this amazon issue reaffirms that our voice can make a difference, and that we need to use it - rather than do nothing.

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Call me a total cynic - but there is a part of me that wonders if Amazon did this, knowing the publicity they would get from it. Look at the free mention Amazon received ALL OVER the internet and the media.

I mean, Amazon full well knows this had nothing to with a 1st Amendment Rights violation. For them (or anyone) to claim a 1st Amendment violation - it would have had to include the Government saying "it is against the law to publish or sell this book". That didn't happen.

Amazon can choose what they want to sell or don't want to sell. They are a business and are fully in charge of that choice. And they made the very conscious choice to ALLOW this book to be sold on their site.

It may be not be against the law to sell/publish this repulsive piece of trash, but people are free to speak up about it - and they/we did. People took action and used their voice. At least Amazon listened, but I can see why they'd permanently lose customers. I would really like to know their true motivation for putting this book on their site.

Btw, they also sell (or, used to sell) instructional books about dog fighting .

I agree with you Ann, Here we are into the Christmas Peak Season and maybe this was planned. People will come on their site to check out the book and realize they have neat stuff with free shipping.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I want to live my life like this. I may make mistakes from time to time and not be as environmentally conscious as I should, but this is my goal too. I think if we all start being more aware of what we are supporting or tacitly approving when we make a purchase, we CAN make a difference in the direction the human race is taking. The majority needs to find its voice and use it.

I agree. Very admirable. I was also thinking because I shop at WM a lot because I have a limited budget, but the more I think about it I really need to shop elsewhere. First of all, most of their merchandise is from China or made outside of America. Shopping there I am not supporting American jobs. And as was mentioned they put other small stores out of business (happened here where I live. There was a grocery store in business since I was a child and it finally folded this year. We have 2 walmarts. They treat their employees badly, who in turn treat customers badly (and please don't be offended if you work there, know somebody who works there - I am not saying every single person).
My job, I call insurance companies, and I cannot tell you the number of these jobs that have been outsourced. I am calling India more often then not. And I live in the #1 state for unemployment. Our society is collapsing. Maybe it is happening slowly and we may not notice at first, but I think it is very frightening the direction our country is going.

Sorry, my rant took a turn there.......

[RachelandSadie]

done with amazon forever. even though they took it down they should have never considered it ok to begin with and now dog fighting too?? nope done!!

[nana911]

Originally Posted by kjc

I don't buy from pet stores that sell animals.

I don't buy cosmetics from companies that test their products on animals.

I don't buy jeans or shoes or clothing from companies that use child labor.

I don't buy coffee or coconut oil from companies whose farming practices destroy the environment.

I don't buy products that contain anything that comes from whales.

I am trying my best to stay out of WalMart because I don't like the way they compensate their employees, and the horrible effect their huge stores have on the surrounding businesses.

I don't watch or support Major League Baseball anymore because of the steroid controversy.

I have lost all respect for Michael Phelps because he was/is stupid enough to smoke marijuana, and I do not buy products from companies that endorse him.

I pay extra for my electricity to make green energy available to the 'grid'.

I recycle, I don't litter, I pick up other people's litter.

I won't buy from Amazon, Barnes & Nobles, nor Borders anymore, because they sell books that may cause more children to be sexually abused, and offers books that cater to Holocaust deniers and other hate groups, as well as graphic dog fighting and cock fighting videos.

Yes, people need to be allowed to make choices, but, to me, that's like having an AA Meeting in a bar. And it doesn't specify ages, just 'children'. I may be oversensitive because an arrest was made in my neighborhood just last week of some animal that chose to have sex with an infant...
How many children do we sacrifice before we say 'Enough' and stop allowing people who think with their genitals instead of their 'brains' to make decisions that have definite negative impacts on innocent children and babies?

These are pretty much the same rules that my DD lives by. She is in the process of trying to find a new cosmetic to use since she has heard that Bare Escentuals has sold out to a company that does animal testing. She has used BE for years. I admire anyone that has the strength of character to abide by and honor their core beliefs. I try where I can, but I'm not quite as strong as I'd like to be or as I see others as being.

I understand your outrage. I deal with sex offenders on a daily basis. It is another case of laws with no common sense. I see the actual sick needs to be harshly punished cases, such as you describe and then the ones where 17yo johnny had consensual sex with his 16yo girlfriend, her parents find out, get mad and now johnny must spend the rest of his life, or maybe just the next couple decades, if he can afford a good lawyer, registering as a sex offender. He must notify his local police dept when he goes on vacation, notify his vacation destination when he plans on arriving. In his late 20s if he has kindergarten age children, he will have to get special permission to occasionally go to the school to pick them up. He will not be allowed to live anywhere near the school. It is a case of knee jerk reaction laws being applied with no common sense. It is when the majority is allowed to speak for everyone. It is a slippery slope, letting the majority dictate what I can and cannot read or watch. What if I am a Christian and the majority decides that I shouldn't be allowed to pray in public schools or that the ten commandments should be removed from schools and government buildings, or that even a cross marking where a loved one was killed in a traffic crash on the highway was considered offensive and they, because THEY decided they are offended take that right away from me? I don't believe the answer is censorship, i.e. removal of what offends. The answer is in what you are already doing and advocating. Boycott, do not buy their products, spread the word. But do not demand that laws be passed that do not allow material to be printed or that censors. As I said, it is a slippery slope.

Just my opinion. Not starting a fight.

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by nana911

These are pretty much the same rules that my DD lives by. She is in the process of trying to find a new cosmetic to use since she has heard that Bare Escentuals has sold out to a company that does animal testing. She has used BE for years. I admire anyone that has the strength of character to abide by and honor their core beliefs. I try where I can, but I'm not quite as strong as I'd like to be or as I see others as being.

I understand your outrage. I deal with sex offenders on a daily basis. It is another case of laws with no common sense. I see the actual sick needs to be harshly punished cases, such as you describe and then the ones where 17yo johnny had consensual sex with his 16yo girlfriend, her parents find out, get mad and now johnny must spend the rest of his life, or maybe just the next couple decades, if he can afford a good lawyer, registering as a sex offender. He must notify his local police dept when he goes on vacation, notify his vacation destination when he plans on arriving. In his late 20s if he has kindergarten age children, he will have to get special permission to occasionally go to the school to pick them up. He will not be allowed to live anywhere near the school. It is a case of knee jerk reaction laws being applied with no common sense. It is when the majority is allowed to speak for everyone. It is a slippery slope, letting the majority dictate what I can and cannot read or watch. What if I am a Christian and the majority decides that I shouldn't be allowed to pray in public schools or that the ten commandments should be removed from schools and government buildings, or that even a cross marking where a loved one was killed in a traffic crash on the highway was considered offensive and they, because THEY decided they are offended take that right away from me? I don't believe the answer is censorship, i.e. removal of what offends. The answer is in what you are already doing and advocating. Boycott, do not buy their products, spread the word. But do not demand that laws be passed that do not allow material to be printed or that censors. As I said, it is a slippery slope.

Just my opinion. Not starting a fight.

I do understand and get what you are saying....however, I believe in censorship when it comes to illegal activites. I think there are far too many that use this ("their rights") that are abusing the system. He wrote about sexually abusing children so I don't see this as a slippery slope....I see it as being against the law. If our country isn't outraged by this type of thing, then we are becoming far to lax in what is right and what is wrong.

[PandaGirl]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

If he were dealing with his guilt wouldn't he at least want to donate all his profit to some worthy organization? Sometimes the simplest explanation is the answer, and greed is often a motive. Amazon is taking it off not because of a policy change, but simple greed.

By the way, there is no doubt many of the survivors feel lots of guilt, but much of the guilt is because they did experience pleasure at the time, so he wants to increase their pleasure? Making this a "pleasurable experience" will not reduce the trauma to the survivors.

I am sorry, but I disagree with your statement.
Guilt is not from experiencing the pleasure of molestation, guilt is from thinking it was all your fault, somehow you did something for this person to think it was ok to take advantage of you. I have never ever heard of guilt from the pleasure of this atrocious act. No-one I have ever talked to about this has ever said it was pleasure, they said it was horrifying

[evab]

Originally Posted by mojo

don't know if you have all seen the story about amazon selling a pedophile guide and refusing to take it down citing freedom of speech -http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40112145/?gt1=43001

I want everybody to be aware of this. I sent them an email that if it is not removed they have lost me as a customer and how they have let their customers down and how disappointed in the company I am.

Just wanted to put this out there and make everyone aware. You can make your own decisions on whether or not you wish to support amazon financially.

That's awful, these big companies need to take responsability for their sites, we had something similar on UK facebook, but eventually it was removed.

[evab]

Originally Posted by mojo

I agree. Very admirable. I was also thinking because I shop at WM a lot because I have a limited budget, but the more I think about it I really need to shop elsewhere. First of all, most of their merchandise is from China or made outside of America. Shopping there I am not supporting American jobs. And as was mentioned they put other small stores out of business (happened here where I live. There was a grocery store in business since I was a child and it finally folded this year. We have 2 walmarts. They treat their employees badly, who in turn treat customers badly (and please don't be offended if you work there, know somebody who works there - I am not saying every single person).
My job, I call insurance companies, and I cannot tell you the number of these jobs that have been outsourced. I am calling India more often then not. And I live in the #1 state for unemployment. Our society is collapsing. Maybe it is happening slowly and we may not notice at first, but I think it is very frightening the direction our country is going.

Sorry, my rant took a turn there.......

It's the same in the UK, our call centres are all in India now, and this sometimes makes even the simplest enquiry difficult. We have Asda (Walmart) & large companies are forcing our smaller shops to close, as they can't compete with the pricing. I try to use my local shops, butcher,baker,fruit & veg man etc, but it's difficult when it comes to clothes, hardware products etc..... to know just where they are coming from and what labour force they use and how they are being treated or exploited. I worry for my children's future, but all we can do is trust that they will put some of these bad things right.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by PandaGirl

I am sorry, but I disagree with your statement.
Guilt is not from experiencing the pleasure of molestation, guilt is from thinking it was all your fault, somehow you did something for this person to think it was ok to take advantage of you. I have never ever heard of guilt from the pleasure of this atrocious act. No-one I have ever talked to about this has ever said it was pleasure, they said it was horrifying

I'm just sharing what I learned in school. I majored in psychology, and while most victims do report the experience as horrifying, the clients that are said to be the hardest to treat, are the ones who experienced pleasure. The guilt for them is overwhelming. Do you understand, most can't even make the breakthrough? They are disgusted with themselves, and the pain is unbelievable. Even though, they've learned that its wasn't their fault and the adult is "always responsible", the guilt they feel because part of it was pleasurable is insurmountable. It's possible that many of the people you've talked to do not even want to admit this, or didn't experience it, but I'm sharing what the experts believe. My point though, is his argument is that this book will make the experience more pleasurable to children, thinking somehow this will lessen the trauma, some people might even think that makes sense and this in no way reduces the trauma, in fact, it adds to it!!!! I just want people to understand, that NO having them "enjoy" it, does not make it better.