I am ANGRY

[Reese1]

Originally Posted by nana911

These are pretty much the same rules that my DD lives by. She is in the process of trying to find a new cosmetic to use since she has heard that Bare Escentuals has sold out to a company that does animal testing. She has used BE for years. I admire anyone that has the strength of character to abide by and honor their core beliefs. I try where I can, but I'm not quite as strong as I'd like to be or as I see others as being.

I understand your outrage. I deal with sex offenders on a daily basis. It is another case of laws with no common sense. I see the actual sick needs to be harshly punished cases, such as you describe and then the ones where 17yo johnny had consensual sex with his 16yo girlfriend, her parents find out, get mad and now johnny must spend the rest of his life, or maybe just the next couple decades, if he can afford a good lawyer, registering as a sex offender. He must notify his local police dept when he goes on vacation, notify his vacation destination when he plans on arriving. In his late 20s if he has kindergarten age children, he will have to get special permission to occasionally go to the school to pick them up. He will not be allowed to live anywhere near the school. It is a case of knee jerk reaction laws being applied with no common sense. It is when the majority is allowed to speak for everyone. It is a slippery slope, letting the majority dictate what I can and cannot read or watch. What if I am a Christian and the majority decides that I shouldn't be allowed to pray in public schools or that the ten commandments should be removed from schools and government buildings, or that even a cross marking where a loved one was killed in a traffic crash on the highway was considered offensive and they, because THEY decided they are offended take that right away from me? I don't believe the answer is censorship, i.e. removal of what offends. The answer is in what you are already doing and advocating. Boycott, do not buy their products, spread the word. But do not demand that laws be passed that do not allow material to be printed or that censors. As I said, it is a slippery slope.

Just my opinion. Not starting a fight.

Originally Posted by TammyJM

I do understand and get what you are saying....however, I believe in censorship when it comes to illegal activites. I think there are far too many that use this ("their rights") that are abusing the system. He wrote about sexually abusing children so I don't see this as a slippery slope....I see it as being against the law. If our country isn't outraged by this type of thing, then we are becoming far to lax in what is right and what is wrong.

There are laws against child pornography, the images, why not the text?
I'm sorry, but I do think laws should enforce when the acts are already illegal.
Just like I don't think books on how to make bombs should be sold, dog fighting, cock fighting. It's all just sick to me.

[nana911]

Originally Posted by Reese1

There are laws against child pornography, the images, why not the text?
I'm sorry, but I do think laws should enforce when the acts are already illegal.
Just like I don't think books on how to make bombs should be sold, dog fighting, cock fighting. It's all just sick to me.

It IS all sick, but then you probably just get into a legal battle of semantics. As in Bill Clinton's ""define sex""....

I do agree that WM is a blight on the landscape of the world, used to be just the US. Anywhere they show up, small business withers and dies.

Nancy1999, makes a very valid point. It is the very secret, outrageous taboo subject that no one wants to touch, let alone speak of. But it is one of the greatest reasons that this childhood trauma IS so difficult to treat. How to get past that barrier when the victim cannot even bring themselves to admit it. When to admit it is to bring on a perception of such loathing by everyone around them... a catch-22 if there ever was one.

This has been such a downer of a subject..I'm gonna go play with my furbabies.... they are such innocents...

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Reese1

There are laws against child pornography, the images, why not the text?
I'm sorry, but I do think laws should enforce when the acts are already illegal.
Just like I don't think books on how to make bombs should be sold, dog fighting, cock fighting. It's all just sick to me.

Why did you quote me on this?? Did you not understand the point that I was making...because it was pretty much what you just wrote.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Actually there was just the 3 involved -- the author, the publisher, and Amazon. I think the others you are talking about are all employees of these. This book does not have its own advertising agency or a huge marketing firm behind it. Just the author and the book's publisher who then got it listed by Amazon. In fact, some of the books at issue, are self published pieces of filth. I think in your analogy the children would be the tree -- not this book. I am sure for the pedophiles, temptation is ever present with children around the world. The book is not the temptation itself -- it is the evil encouraging the abuse/assault on children, pushing those with sickness to act upon the urges they have. It is praying on children, but also those who are truly SICK. I think most of the ones with this sickness try to contain it. But when so many are trying to tell them it is okay, go ahead, act on your vile thoughts....it can be the very thing that causes a child to be assaulted. So, I don't quite go along with your analogy. I think we need to stop some things. Books like this should be against the law because they are promoting an illegal act of the most horrific consequence.

But -- everyone has to make their own conscious decision about this and what is right for me may not be right for you. I think those who do believe strongly against this owe it to the children, to do what they can to stop it. Whether that is letters to the companies or a boycott, we have to do something, other than to stand by and tacitly approve of it. JMO....

I believe the book was actually self-published. But Amazon is the one who ultimately makes the call as to whether or not they are going to follow their own stated policies. In this case, they chose not to even after they were notified of the violation. Instead they chose to hide behind an erroneous "first amendment" argument. Even a first year law student could have told them that there ARE limits on speech when public safety is concerned. Well, I exercised my first amendment right by writing to Amazon and telling them why I was closing my account.

[ladyjane]

I thought they had stopped selling these books??? I swore I saw that on CNN yesterday.

[Rhetts_mama]

They did pull the book, but only after it got national attention. They were also selling videos that violated obsenity laws.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

They did pull the book, but only after it got national attention. They were also selling videos that violated obsenity laws.

Did they pull the videos? I linked it in one of my follow up responses. It was so vile I could not even read most of the new article. It even had blurred out pics. Very disturbing.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

I believe the book was actually self-published. .....

That is why I wrote that "some of the books at issue were self-published pieces of filth" -- I just wasn't sure which ones were and weren't and wasn't going to look them up to say which was which. I didn't even want to run a search to see if they had removed all the books yet. I did not want tht kind of a search on my computer!

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by nana911

...It is a slippery slope, letting the majority dictate what I can and cannot read or watch. What if I am a Christian and the majority decides that I shouldn't be allowed to pray in public schools or that the ten commandments should be removed from schools and government buildings, or that even a cross marking where a loved one was killed in a traffic crash on the highway was considered offensive and they, because THEY decided they are offended take that right away from me? I don't believe the answer is censorship, i.e. removal of what offends. The answer is in what you are already doing and advocating. Boycott, do not buy their products, spread the word. But do not demand that laws be passed that do not allow material to be printed or that censors. As I said, it is a slippery slope.

Just my opinion. Not starting a fight.

I think the problem is that the majority DOES NOT dictate what the rules are. We live in a republic and not a true democracy. That is not always a good thing IMO. It was suppose to be so that every small group would still have rights and the majority could not laud their opinions over everyone else. But instead we have made this huge circle where every small special interest group is cow-tailed to and the rights of the majority are trompled. No one seems to think anything of telling Christians and Jews they can no longer pray in school, yet Muslims are given space to ensure their 5 times a day prayers are met during the school day. We are having historic buildings "vandalized" to remove references to God and the 10 Commandments, yet bend over backwards for other religions, cultures, etc.... I just do not think we need to remove all vestiges of God to appease those who do not believe. If they have some other belief they should be free to have that expressed too but no one should have to closet their beliefs! JMO and I have nothing against anyone's beliefs -- I just think all should be free to express them.

[nana911]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I think the problem is that the majority DOES NOT dictate what the rules are. We live in a republic and not a true democracy. That is not always a good thing IMO. It was suppose to be so that every small group would still have rights and the majority could not laud their opinions over everyone else. But instead we have made this huge circle where every small special interest group is cow-tailed to and the rights of the majority are trompled. No one seems to think anything of telling Christians and Jews they can no longer pray in school, yet Muslims are given space to ensure their 5 times a day prayers are met during the school day. We are having historic buildings "vandalized" to remove references to God and the 10 Commandments, yet bend over backwards for other religions, cultures, etc.... I just do not think we need to remove all vestiges of God to appease those who do not believe. If they have some other belief they should be free to have that expressed too but no one should have to closet their beliefs! JMO and I have nothing against anyone's beliefs -- I just think all should be free to express them.

I agree 100%, somewhere along the line, we've gotten upside down. The whole idea behind the constitution was that government was supposed to stay out of religion, not religion stay out of government. My DH and I were just remarking the other day that schools can teach the Koran and other religious books in the name of literature and philosophy but the Bible cannot seem to be taught for any reason.. At any rate. I believe this country has moved too far to the politically correct left to solve the problem, it is at this point unsolvable. I am not a hard core right winger. I believe there is a middle ground of reason and judgement. Sadly, we missed it someplace.

lk