Oh boy... (actually GIRL) - What have I DONE????

[ace611]

How is Miss Emma doing tonight? I have been dying to come home and read how she is doing today! I love keeping up with her story....She is such a lil fighter Keep it up
Bella and I send our prayers

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

As for those who were "just expressing their opinion", many of Gods creatures suffer pain, but if in the long run they go on to live normal lives, isn't the pain worth it?

As for being entited to their "opinions", they certainly are, but if expressing their opinion causes some one else pain than it is better kept to themselves.

These are subjective matters - what is a normal life? What makes pain worthwhile? What opinion would cause pain to one person, while adding value to another?

That is why opinions need to be allowed. What we're asking here, from a RULES and REGULATIONS perspective, is that opinions are given respectfully.

Personally, I'd ask that they're given kindly - whether folks agree with Dena or not. And, that we all try to support Dena as she supports Emma through this difficult journey. I think we all can agree on that, can't we?

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

[QUOTE=Wylie's Mom;2177731]I'm speaking of her quality of life after the unsuccessful surgery, the pain, the not using full anesthetic, the face splitting back open - and whether it can be fixed from there. That's what I'm talking about. Not the palate itself. The limitations of the medicine and/or the surgeons.
QUOTE]

I honestly don't feel that Emma is experiencing any true "loss of quality of life" even now, as a week old baby. Yes, of course - she has experienced much more trauma and stress than a normal pup - - but it was my heartfelt feeling that she would benefit from the surgical procedures at a very early age.... so my decision early on, was that the long term benefits outweighed the risks.... and I still believe that would have been the case... IF indeed, the surgery had been successful.

There is so much controversy surrounding whether or not, and to what extent, a newborn puppy experiences pain.....

Advocates assert that the newborn's nervous system is unable to feel even what would normally be viewed as extreme pain. There are claims that since puppies are less developed at birth (altricial) than, say, fawns or colts - which stand, walk and run within a very short time after birth (precocial) - their nervous systems are less sensitive, therefore experience abnormally low levels of pain. However, it is well documented in the human medical literature that newborn humans, who are also altricial, do feel pain.

I have no desire to get into a "heated debated" regarding this topic.... I am simply making reference to what I have read.

I DO feel that Emma experienced pain.... from ALL of her procedures.... to what extent, I can't be certain.

It was BECAUSE some level of pain was evident to me - I was firm in my desire to continue my attempts at getting her to nurse, rather than tube feeding or using the syringe or dropper. Research indicates that suckling causes the release of endorphins, the body's natural way of relieving pain.

I firmly believe that the stress of being taken from her mother, being passed around from doctor to doctor - poked and prodded on, and being denied any type of nutrients for the first 20 hours of her life.... played a far larger part in Emma's failure to thrive very early on - than the pain she experienced from her medical procedures.

It breaks my heart that our attempts at surgical intervention have failed.

But, to believe that Emma is being subjected to "undue suffering".... I simply cannot wrap my mind around that concept.

Emma is a very active, very NORMAL little Chihuahua girl - in EVERY aspect, other than her birth defects. ALL of her needs are being met.

She eats very well, (though not on her own) - - - Actually... she CAN nurse at this point... I have just chosen not to allow it right now to avoid any further trauma to her mouth and nose. But from day one, she has never regurgitated or had any other issues tolerating her formula.

She sleeps peacefully with wiggles and twinges of little puppy dreams in her head..... she scoots all over the place - already building the muscles she'll soon be using to walk and run!

Her heart and lungs are strong.... her other internal organs are all fully functioning... she responds normally to direct stimuli - She exhibits the behaviors of a normal puppy, instinctively seeking out what she needs, whether it be warmth, nourishment, or just closeness.....

She is a beautiful, healthy girl ... and she continues to thrive.

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

There was a sign on it that said you had taken it down. Can you post the link again?

hahaha... oh noooo, that was her "Out To Lunch" sign... lol, I put that in the crib when I take her out to feed her.... one of the girls suggested it so that people wouldn't go in to check on her and not know where she is.

Here is the link:

Mom2BabyNatalie - Mom2BabyNatalie Live - blogTV

[Beabble]

Originally Posted by Breny

My Tia is living proof that these babies CAN be saved. Tia and I are still here pulling for you and Emma. I know each case is different and Tias cleft was inside, the whole back of her roof of her mouth.

We made it with a bottle only, never having the weight gain Emma has had...normally losing...Two years later here we are.

I feel confident this little one can pull through....she's eating, she's gaining, she's pooing and peeing. Tia went 4 months before having solid poo.

I don't post too much cuz I cry everytime I come to this thread.

But Tia and I are here rooting for you!!!

YouTube - TT Marie

Breny your lil one is so adorable and praise God that Tia made it. This s the same fighting chance that Dena is giving Baby Emma and it makes my heart smile to see others out there with cleft pallets that have puled through.

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

Originally Posted by kpstoybox

The problem is...if I'm correct...this is no longer just a cleft pallet. I could be wrong...but I think I read that Dena said she only had one functional nasal passage. The other is wide open.
Her face is now "mangled' with very little skin left to keep trying anymore repairs. And last I read...her pallet was opening up again.

This is why "some" are now questioning the pain involved and her quality of life.

IMO...Dena has the right to try everything under the sun to save this baby. And I pray to God she succeeds. I just hope they can find away to do this with as little pain to baby Emma as possible.

Actually, the defect... was never "just a cleft palate".... Emma was born with only half a nose.... (the cleft lip) - and has never had function of the right nasal passage. Even with the surgery to close the nasal opening, Emma would have to endure further surgery at a later date to create a functional nasal system for her.

With the failure of the sutures to remain in tact.... Emma has lost the SURGICALLY STRUCTURED nostril, but again, she still would not have had a functional airway.... just as the day she was born.

The condition of the skin on her muzzle, on the other hand.... has certainly been a concern. Not something that I feel I really could have prevented given the circumstances..... but not something that I would hope to see her ever go through again....

As for the palate..... before the surgery, it was a very wide opening - extremely disfiguring and simply non functional... not to mention a constant danger and vacuum for infection.

With the surgery... it is 95% improved..... if there is no further regression... I'll take that percentage and feel blessed.

[margaritaville]

She's so cute. I just watched her squiggle all over her crib and snuggle her puppy. She is holding her little head up so high.

[ace611]

Lil Emma is such a wiggle butt....haha she has been crawling all over her crib tonight! its good to see her so active! i bet your so excited for her eyes to open!

[adorame]

Dena,
I think what you are doing for baby Emma is wonderful and shows what a very caring and kind person you are! She seems to be thriving and that is what is important! She sure is a fighter and it's great reading and watching the live web to see this little girl doing so well. I stand behind you 100% in your caring for her. Some things have to be done to help her along, and yes pain might be involved in obtaining the goal and keeping her thriving! I wish nothing but the best for little Emma, and you too!


I agree that some things are done to HUMAN babies with out giving them anesthetize, I had a horrible experience with my son Kennedy when he was a baby. He was born with a Primary Immune Defect and GI problems, he needed a tube feeding and at age 9 months they placed a Micky Tube in his belly for his tube feedings. Well One night when he was 22 months old the micky button actually fell out and his stomach area started to close up before we got him up to Rainbow Babies and Children's Hospital to see the ped Surgeon. They( the ped surgeons) had my husband take him back into a room and they pulled out steel rods of a few different sizes, put my son in a board that strapped his arms and feet. asked my husband to help hold him and proceeded to ram the rods in were the Micky hole was....with out knocking my son out I was in the waiting room with 2 of my other kids and I heard my Kennedy screaming and was wondering what the heck was going on After they got it placed my husband comes out pushing Kennedy in the stroller telling me that we had to get him over to X ray right away because they had to be sure the micky was in his stomach right He was white as a ghost and looked like he was going to pass out, Kennedy was screaming for hours after they did this to him! AND NOTHING was given to him afterwards for the PAIN he was in, the said we could give him baby Motrin! You knew he was in pain! I was horrified when my husband told me how they got his hole to open for the new Micky button. We did tell his Ped GI doctor if that was to ever happen agin then they would NOT be doing that to my son ever again!! we would let it close completely so a surgery would be done to replace it. Luckily he out grew the need of the Micky tube for feedings by the time he was 3 years old. He is now almost 14 years old and he has no memory of any of the painful things that he had to endure when he was little. But we sure do!

So YES they DO do things to HUMAN babies without knocking the poor things out first or giving them pain meds to ease the pain!!

[Betty'sMom]

Originally Posted by Breny

My Tia is living proof that these babies CAN be saved. Tia and I are still here pulling for you and Emma. I know each case is different and Tias cleft was inside, the whole back of her roof of her mouth.

We made it with a bottle only, never having the weight gain Emma has had...normally losing...Two years later here we are.

I feel confident this little one can pull through....she's eating, she's gaining, she's pooing and peeing. Tia went 4 months before having solid poo.

I don't post too much cuz I cry everytime I come to this thread.

But Tia and I are here rooting for you!!!

YouTube - TT Marie

There is my sweet Tia girl.

[Beabble]

I just came from the live cam watching Punkin Butt, oh she is simply adorable!! I spoke with Dena as well and before her last feeding, she weighed in a 120 grams, YAYYYY!!! Way to go girl. Dena, thank you SO MUCH for doing what you're doing and taking such good care of her. Those nightly compresses with the gauze are an awesome idea and what love to sit and keep icing her lil face for her to keep any swelling down. Keep up the wonderful job! Prayers going up for you and Lil Punkin Butt as always.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by adorame

Dena,


So YES they DO do things to HUMAN babies without knocking the poor things out first or giving them pain meds to ease the pain!!

Yes they do. My 6 week old infant required surgery, in order to put in an IV they had to make a cut on her ankle to find a vein where they could insert the needle. I could hear her screaming from the waiting room down the hall. They held her down and did what they had to do.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Beabble

I just came from the live cam watching Punkin Butt, oh she is simply adorable!! I spoke with Dena as well and before her last feeding, she weighed in a 120 grams, YAYYYY!!! Way to go girl. Dena, thank you SO MUCH for doing what you're doing and taking such good care of her. Those nightly compresses with the gauze are an awesome idea and what love to sit and keep icing her lil face for her to keep any swelling down. Keep up the wonderful job! Prayers going up for you and Lil Punkin Butt as always.

I was watching also and she certainly doesn't appear to be in pain. She was sleeping like a baby.

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

Originally Posted by Beabble

I just came from the live cam watching Punkin Butt, oh she is simply adorable!! I spoke with Dena as well and before her last feeding, she weighed in a 120 grams, YAYYYY!!! Way to go girl. Dena, thank you SO MUCH for doing what you're doing and taking such good care of her. Those nightly compresses with the gauze are an awesome idea and what love to sit and keep icing her lil face for her to keep any swelling down. Keep up the wonderful job! Prayers going up for you and Lil Punkin Butt as always.

It's our nightly routine... since the first set of stitches came out. I don't know if it WORKS, lol - but it did keep her content enough to get some good rest at night. At first it was only an hour or two... but since the second set of sutures ripped her skin so badly - we do it much longer.

Six hours - every night - usually betwen 2 and 8 am - - - that's OUR time... and my most favorite!

She didn't like the wrap.... (gauze, then med tape - wrapped around her muzzle) then the little "burrito wrap" and then warm compresses... damp at first with warm water... (to loosen the scabs) then heated dry compresses..... the steady pressure and heat comforts her after a few minutes.... I hold her tight till my hands ache - - - but the goal was to get the skin to adhere even without the sutures. The longer I "held her face together"... the better chance of a positive result.

Two hours of cool compresses to her face (not wet, just refrigerated cloths) at some point during the day.... sometimes right after the heat... sometimes later in the evening.... usually an hour at a time... she doesn't like that one so much, lol.... but it too, helps with the swelling. I try to do the cool when she's REALLY sleepy and with a full belly so she's a little more still...

With all that... the oral antibiotics and the injectible Penicillin G (I don't inject it, I just drip a tiny drop into the wound) - she seems to be healing.

I wasn't having good luck with this at first.... but today is showing marked improvement ... so I'll keep up with it...

[Marina]

Wow 600 posts in a week... Baby Emma is loved...Her best wishes are in my thoughts all day, every day.

Please dont let what a handfull of ppl think affect what you know in your heart is best for this baby. Keep the updates coming.. I cant go to sleep without them.